*****The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power*****

151,196 Views | 1847 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by maroon man
The Porkchop Express
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Looking forward to Sauron waiting for the rings to turn the dwarves evil and nothing happens.
Hagen95
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redline248 said:

Quote:

It's set up to show why in the Third Age Galadriel is isolated with a loyal band of warlike elves jealously guarding their isolated realm. Rather than part of Elrond's council. It makes sense why Galadriel is so happy she is able to withstand the temptation of the one ring but it is a real struggle for her. Elrond never shows a desire for the one ring.
Interesting thought. I never considered any difference between Rivendell and Lothlorien. Doesn't Elrond eventually take the ring Gil Galad has in the show?
He doesn't take it, it is given to him. [insert actually gif here]
KidDoc
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I liked how they somewhat fleshed out the orcs/uruks with that one complaining about going to war again to Adan and then showing a baby orc.
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AJ02
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Put me in the other camp that was irritated that they were trying to make people sympathetic of the orcs. They have no morality. They are evil through and through.

Edit....screengrab below is confusing. First it says they have no morality, then it says they do. But I was always under the believe they were created or corrupted by Morgoth and were 100% evil.


KidDoc
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AJ02 said:

Put me in the other camp that was irritated that they were trying to make people sympathetic of the orcs. They have no morality. They are evil through and through.

I have never seen in any fantasy world where orcs could not speak. They speak plenty in Middle Earth in the books and in all the films old and new.

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AJ02
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Yeah, I screen grabbed that because of the "orcs are wholly evil". The rest of it doesn't really make sense to me.

But I still contend that I was always of the belief that they were completely evil. So trying to portray them as "family men" who are against another war just seems a bit laughable to me.
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The Porkchop Express
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Found this online. Not challenging your authority, but certainly there's a different opinion - enough to write a full academic paper about it.

Let Us Now Praise Famous Orcs: Simple Humanity in Tolkien's Inhuman Creatures




PatAg
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Im just choosing to ignore that scene. Orcs are bad, I dont care
Claude!
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I don't know that Tolkien ever fully settled on the possibility of redemption for orcs. Excerpt from Letter 153:

Quote:

{Orcs, trolls, etc.} would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making necessary to their actual existence even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today.

This is the closest I think Tolkien got to saying that Orcs are capable of being or becoming good. Because the basis of their being comes from Eru Iluvatar, at some level their fea (souls) are not irredeemable. But I don't think that necessarily leads to the idea that Orcs are just another race of the Children of Iluvatar that yearn for their own small cottage somewhere and are bad just because of their rough upbringing. Any redemption is tied to whatever happens to their souls when they die, which isn't something that I think Tolkien explored.

Orcs do show some moderate level of free will in the legendarium - they argue and fight among themselves, but again, they're not yearning to plant rutabagas. They're still wholly creatures of Sauron. From the Return of the King:

Quote:

As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope.
redline248
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Yeah, even if the orcs could think for themselves, it is only who and how many do I have to kill to get what I want?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Good theory here that the Dark Wizard is the Witch King.
redline248
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I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.

Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
Brian Earl Spilner
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Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.

The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
Chipotlemonger
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First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.

Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
KCup17
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I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?

canadiaggie
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redline248 said:

I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.

Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
That happens more in the Third Age though, since this is still 2nd age the origin area can be more open ended.

But based on the origin area I would assume it was Khamul the Easterling not the Witch King
Brian Earl Spilner
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KCup17 said:

I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.

Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
Claude!
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

KCup17 said:

I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.

Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"

The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.
redline248
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.

The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
Nothing makes it less egregious. Which is why it probably didn't make the theatrical release. (I think it was only special edition, someone can check my work).
canadiaggie
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redline248 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.

The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
Nothing makes it less egregious. Which is why it probably didn't make the theatrical release. (I think it was only special edition, someone can check my work).


It's only in the extended edition for sure.

Source: just made my wife watch all three extended editions
KCup17
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Claude! said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

KCup17 said:

I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.

Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"

The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.


I was looking into this further and I guess originally Tolkien wanted the "Wizard King" to be the antagonist to Gandalf. But when Tolkien decided to make the wizards the Istari, he pivoted to the idea of the Witch king being a mortal with sorcerer-esque powers. So technically he would be a mortal I believe?

Edit: If I need to start spoiler tagging let me know. I'm spit balling from different deep dives into Tolkien lore I've done.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Which I just said went against lore.
redline248
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Bombadil
Ents
Barrow wights

Cram it all in!

Galadriel went from distracting 6 orcs to being in the middle of 100. Elrond be hatin'

Also, Eregion is on the other side of the Misty Mountains from Mordor, right? Speed walking that orc army. Would expect the dwarves to to run at least a little interference.
redline248
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canadiaggie said:

redline248 said:

I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.

Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
That happens more in the Third Age though, since this is still 2nd age the origin area can be more open ended.

But based on the origin area I would assume it was Khamul the Easterling not the Witch King
Doesn't the 2nd age end with Isildur cutting the ring off Sauron's hand? All the rings are forged and distributed before that, right?
Claude!
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Which I just said went against lore.
I know. I just did so more poetically.
rynning
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Chipotlemonger said:

First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.

Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
Agree this episode felt much more like season 1 than the first two. I often feel like the target audience is 10-12 year olds, but I think my real problem is how quickly it introduces and resolves minor conflict. The Ents, the "Stranger" sucked into a tree, the mud (how did they get so clean?), Nori and Poppy's imprisonment, Theo and Arondir relationship, etc. They get resolved so fast that they end up being meaningless to the overall plot.
Faustus
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rynning said:

Chipotlemonger said:

First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.

Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
Agree this episode felt much more like season 1 than the first two. I often feel like the target audience is 10-12 year olds, but I think my real problem is how quickly it introduces and resolves minor conflict. The Ents, the "Stranger" sucked into a tree, the mud (how did they get so clean?), Nori and Poppy's imprisonment, Theo and Arondir relationship, etc. They get resolved so fast that they end up being meaningless to the overall plot.
They need to give the tree time to digest.
redline248
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So does Old Tom just take that tree with him everywhere? It amuses him to see people get swallowed up before saving them?
The Porkchop Express
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If another meteor could appear and fall on the halflings, I'd be much happier
Iowaggie
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One does not simply airboat into Mordor.

The Fellowship of the Rednecks

KidDoc
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Iowaggie said:

One does not simply airboat into Mordor.

The Fellowship of the Rednecks


They put a lot of effort into this pretty awesome
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ChipFTAC01
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Is that spoofing something?
donkeykick90
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KCup17 said:

Claude! said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

KCup17 said:

I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.

Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"

The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.


I was looking into this further and I guess originally Tolkien wanted the "Wizard King" to be the antagonist to Gandalf. But when Tolkien decided to make the wizards the Istari, he pivoted to the idea of the Witch king being a mortal with sorcerer-esque powers. So technically he would be a mortal I believe?

Edit: If I need to start spoiler tagging let me know. I'm spit balling from different deep dives into Tolkien lore I've done.


Caught this on TV on Thursday could it be this easy?


Clear Eyes. Full Heart. Might Lose
 
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