Looking forward to Sauron waiting for the rings to turn the dwarves evil and nothing happens. 
*****The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power*****
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Last: 1 mo ago by maroon man
He doesn't take it, it is given to him. [insert actually gif here]redline248 said:Interesting thought. I never considered any difference between Rivendell and Lothlorien. Doesn't Elrond eventually take the ring Gil Galad has in the show?Quote:
It's set up to show why in the Third Age Galadriel is isolated with a loyal band of warlike elves jealously guarding their isolated realm. Rather than part of Elrond's council. It makes sense why Galadriel is so happy she is able to withstand the temptation of the one ring but it is a real struggle for her. Elrond never shows a desire for the one ring.
I liked how they somewhat fleshed out the orcs/uruks with that one complaining about going to war again to Adan and then showing a baby orc.
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Put me in the other camp that was irritated that they were trying to make people sympathetic of the orcs. They have no morality. They are evil through and through.
Edit....screengrab below is confusing. First it says they have no morality, then it says they do. But I was always under the believe they were created or corrupted by Morgoth and were 100% evil.
Edit....screengrab below is confusing. First it says they have no morality, then it says they do. But I was always under the believe they were created or corrupted by Morgoth and were 100% evil.
I have never seen in any fantasy world where orcs could not speak. They speak plenty in Middle Earth in the books and in all the films old and new.AJ02 said:
Put me in the other camp that was irritated that they were trying to make people sympathetic of the orcs. They have no morality. They are evil through and through.
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Yeah, I screen grabbed that because of the "orcs are wholly evil". The rest of it doesn't really make sense to me.
But I still contend that I was always of the belief that they were completely evil. So trying to portray them as "family men" who are against another war just seems a bit laughable to me.
But I still contend that I was always of the belief that they were completely evil. So trying to portray them as "family men" who are against another war just seems a bit laughable to me.
Found this online. Not challenging your authority, but certainly there's a different opinion - enough to write a full academic paper about it.
Let Us Now Praise Famous Orcs: Simple Humanity in Tolkien's Inhuman Creatures
Let Us Now Praise Famous Orcs: Simple Humanity in Tolkien's Inhuman Creatures
Im just choosing to ignore that scene. Orcs are bad, I dont care
I don't know that Tolkien ever fully settled on the possibility of redemption for orcs. Excerpt from Letter 153:
This is the closest I think Tolkien got to saying that Orcs are capable of being or becoming good. Because the basis of their being comes from Eru Iluvatar, at some level their fea (souls) are not irredeemable. But I don't think that necessarily leads to the idea that Orcs are just another race of the Children of Iluvatar that yearn for their own small cottage somewhere and are bad just because of their rough upbringing. Any redemption is tied to whatever happens to their souls when they die, which isn't something that I think Tolkien explored.
Orcs do show some moderate level of free will in the legendarium - they argue and fight among themselves, but again, they're not yearning to plant rutabagas. They're still wholly creatures of Sauron. From the Return of the King:
Quote:
{Orcs, trolls, etc.} would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making necessary to their actual existence even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today.
This is the closest I think Tolkien got to saying that Orcs are capable of being or becoming good. Because the basis of their being comes from Eru Iluvatar, at some level their fea (souls) are not irredeemable. But I don't think that necessarily leads to the idea that Orcs are just another race of the Children of Iluvatar that yearn for their own small cottage somewhere and are bad just because of their rough upbringing. Any redemption is tied to whatever happens to their souls when they die, which isn't something that I think Tolkien explored.
Orcs do show some moderate level of free will in the legendarium - they argue and fight among themselves, but again, they're not yearning to plant rutabagas. They're still wholly creatures of Sauron. From the Return of the King:
Quote:
As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope.
Yeah, even if the orcs could think for themselves, it is only who and how many do I have to kill to get what I want?
Good theory here that the Dark Wizard is the Witch King.
I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.
Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.
The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.
Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
That happens more in the Third Age though, since this is still 2nd age the origin area can be more open ended.redline248 said:
I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.
Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
But based on the origin area I would assume it was Khamul the Easterling not the Witch King
Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.KCup17 said:
I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"Brian Earl Spilner said:Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.KCup17 said:
I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.
Nothing makes it less egregious. Which is why it probably didn't make the theatrical release. (I think it was only special edition, someone can check my work).Brian Earl Spilner said:
Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.
The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
redline248 said:Nothing makes it less egregious. Which is why it probably didn't make the theatrical release. (I think it was only special edition, someone can check my work).Brian Earl Spilner said:
Sure, but he can always move north later in the show.
The thing I like about that theory is that it at least makes that moment in ROTK (movie) where he destroys Gandalf's staff somewhat less egregious, knowing he's a corrupted wizard rather than a man.
It's only in the extended edition for sure.
Source: just made my wife watch all three extended editions
Claude! said:"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"Brian Earl Spilner said:Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.KCup17 said:
I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.
I was looking into this further and I guess originally Tolkien wanted the "Wizard King" to be the antagonist to Gandalf. But when Tolkien decided to make the wizards the Istari, he pivoted to the idea of the Witch king being a mortal with sorcerer-esque powers. So technically he would be a mortal I believe?
Edit: If I need to start spoiler tagging let me know. I'm spit balling from different deep dives into Tolkien lore I've done.
Which I just said went against lore.
Bombadil
Ents
Barrow wights
Cram it all in!
Galadriel went from distracting 6 orcs to being in the middle of 100. Elrond be hatin'
Also, Eregion is on the other side of the Misty Mountains from Mordor, right? Speed walking that orc army. Would expect the dwarves to to run at least a little interference.
Ents
Barrow wights
Cram it all in!
Galadriel went from distracting 6 orcs to being in the middle of 100. Elrond be hatin'
Also, Eregion is on the other side of the Misty Mountains from Mordor, right? Speed walking that orc army. Would expect the dwarves to to run at least a little interference.
Doesn't the 2nd age end with Isildur cutting the ring off Sauron's hand? All the rings are forged and distributed before that, right?canadiaggie said:That happens more in the Third Age though, since this is still 2nd age the origin area can be more open ended.redline248 said:
I'm not sure that needs to be spoiler tagged.
Anyway, that particular character should not come from the East, I don't think. Dark wizard could be another of the 9, though
But based on the origin area I would assume it was Khamul the Easterling not the Witch King
I know. I just did so more poetically.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Which I just said went against lore.
Agree this episode felt much more like season 1 than the first two. I often feel like the target audience is 10-12 year olds, but I think my real problem is how quickly it introduces and resolves minor conflict. The Ents, the "Stranger" sucked into a tree, the mud (how did they get so clean?), Nori and Poppy's imprisonment, Theo and Arondir relationship, etc. They get resolved so fast that they end up being meaningless to the overall plot.Chipotlemonger said:
First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.
Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
They need to give the tree time to digest.rynning said:Agree this episode felt much more like season 1 than the first two. I often feel like the target audience is 10-12 year olds, but I think my real problem is how quickly it introduces and resolves minor conflict. The Ents, the "Stranger" sucked into a tree, the mud (how did they get so clean?), Nori and Poppy's imprisonment, Theo and Arondir relationship, etc. They get resolved so fast that they end up being meaningless to the overall plot.Chipotlemonger said:
First 3 episodes overall were entertaining.
Episode 3 to me was the weakest. Weak plot lines and dialogue/acting in that one.
So does Old Tom just take that tree with him everywhere? It amuses him to see people get swallowed up before saving them?
If another meteor could appear and fall on the halflings, I'd be much happier
One does not simply airboat into Mordor.
The Fellowship of the Rednecks
The Fellowship of the Rednecks
They put a lot of effort into this pretty awesomeIowaggie said:
One does not simply airboat into Mordor.
The Fellowship of the Rednecks
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Is that spoofing something?
KCup17 said:Claude! said:"Nine rings for Mortal Men doomed to die"Brian Earl Spilner said:Not 100% sure either. I was taking "dark wizard" to mean he's an actual Istar, like Gandalf or Saruman.KCup17 said:
I may need to read up on the lore more but wasn't he a sorcerer that accepted one of the Nine from Sauron? Essentially a Wizard king?
Though I believe this technically goes against lore. (If he does end up becoming the WK.)
The Witch-King should not be an Maiar.
I was looking into this further and I guess originally Tolkien wanted the "Wizard King" to be the antagonist to Gandalf. But when Tolkien decided to make the wizards the Istari, he pivoted to the idea of the Witch king being a mortal with sorcerer-esque powers. So technically he would be a mortal I believe?
Edit: If I need to start spoiler tagging let me know. I'm spit balling from different deep dives into Tolkien lore I've done.
Caught this on TV on Thursday could it be this easy?
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