PatAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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I know I'm a broken freaking record, but this episode is really another example of why relying on characters that are very well known wasn't a great idea. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is buying that Isildur is dead. There's no tension there. Furthermore, pretty much everyone is aware of the fact that Celeborn is alive and well in the third age, so again, this whole "I never saw him again" is kinda pointless when everyone is basically saying "uh huh, so we can expect to see him at some point in the future". In contrast to that, Isildur's buddy dying? Nobody saw that coming (yet, anyway), and I honestly have no idea if Bronwyn or Arondir live to the end. There is tension there.

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I'd say I'm a pretty "average" audience member, having only seen the first three movies, and literally the only character I know from the original trilogy is Galadriel. Oh, and I guess Elrond is Agent Smith, right? Either way, I have absolutely no idea who Isildur and Celeborn are in the OT, or that they were even in the OT. Hell, I don't even know who Celeborn is. And Isildur is human, right? How does he even live that long?

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You 100% should know Isildur because of Elrond repeatedly going "ISILDURRR, CAST IT INTO THE FIRE" lol
And you definitely know Elrond.
Most of the flashbacks are specifically about them.

I will disagree about tension, because even though you may know they survive you can still have anticipation of seeing how the story resolves itself.
We knew Saul survives to be in breaking bad, but there is stll tension

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powerbelly said:

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OnlyForNow said:

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But they are all balrogs.... essentially they are all the same thing...


The wolves aren't wargs, hence they are different.

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Sure, all balrogs can look the same in this show, but that doesn't mean Durin's Bane in this show has to look like Durin's Bane from Peter Jackson's version.

Tolkien never gave a really clear description in the book so it would have been great to stray from the horned daemon trope.

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redline248 said:

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powerbelly said:

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I also don't like that Durin's bain looks so similar to the Peter Jackson version.

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It is almost assuredly the exact same Balrog that Gandalf fights in Moria.

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TCTTS said:

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PatAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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I know I'm a broken freaking record, but this episode is really another example of why relying on characters that are very well known wasn't a great idea. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is buying that Isildur is dead. There's no tension there. Furthermore, pretty much everyone is aware of the fact that Celeborn is alive and well in the third age, so again, this whole "I never saw him again" is kinda pointless when everyone is basically saying "uh huh, so we can expect to see him at some point in the future". In contrast to that, Isildur's buddy dying? Nobody saw that coming (yet, anyway), and I honestly have no idea if Bronwyn or Arondir live to the end. There is tension there.

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I'd say I'm a pretty "average" audience member, having only seen the first three movies, and literally the only character I know from the original trilogy is Galadriel. Oh, and I guess Elrond is Agent Smith, right? Either way, I have absolutely no idea who Isildur and Celeborn are in the OT, or that they were even in the OT. Hell, I don't even know who Celeborn is. And Isildur is human, right? How does he even live that long?

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You 100% should know Isildur because of Elrond repeatedly going "ISILDURRR, CAST IT INTO THE FIRE" lol
And you definitely know Elrond.
Most of the flashbacks are specifically about them.

I will disagree about tension, because even though you may know they survive you can still have anticipation of seeing how the story resolves itself.
We knew Saul survives to be in breaking bad, but there is stll tension

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Oh, yeah, ok, I vaguely remember that guy. So the ring would explain how he lives so long.

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Madmarttigan said:

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Star Wars has been relying on known characters in prequel storylines for 25 years now and still keeps doing it, yet people keep watching it despite knowing nothing of real consequence (death) happens to a lot of the characters.

I do think that overusing it though does make it very boring like Obiwan. Andor is probably better I just can't bring myself to watch another prequel storyline tying directly into the rebellion and skywalker saga.

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TCTTS said:

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Oh, gotcha. I guess I thought that was only an elf thing.

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PatAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Oh, gotcha. I guess I thought that was only an elf thing.

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Without looking it up specifically, it has do with them siding with elves in the war against Morgoth.
its also hard to remember if something was only in the books, or just a passing mention in the movies as well.
It should be if it wasnt, for this very reason.

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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Pretty good episode, probably not as good as the last one, but still solid.

Thoughts:
I know I'm a broken freaking record, but this episode is really another example of why relying on characters that are very well known wasn't a great idea. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is buying that Isildur is dead. There's no tension there. Furthermore, pretty much everyone is aware of the fact that Celeborn is alive and well in the third age, so again, this whole "I never saw him again" is kinda pointless when everyone is basically saying "uh huh, so we can expect to see him at some point in the future". In contrast to that, Isildur's buddy dying? Nobody saw that coming (yet, anyway), and I honestly have no idea if Bronwyn or Arondir live to the end. There is tension there.

Ugh...I still hate the whole "mythril is going to save the elves" bs. That said, dang I love the Durin/Elrond/Disa scenes.

So...Halbrand, a skilled blacksmith, is going to Lindon? Probably Eregion? Probably going to meet Celebrimbor? Maybe talk about smithing? That's cool...don't see how that could possibly ever go wrong.

L-O-FREAKING-L HARFOOTS! Leave your friends behind ("We wait for you!"), send away the big guy who saved one of your own's bacon, scared away the wolves, and also saved the grove...karma's a *****, ain't it? Sorry, I just don't like them.

Interesting that the Southlanders are going to an "old Numenorian" settlement on Middle Earth. But it somewhat contradicts with what Pharazon was telling his little brat a few episodes ago; if they already had a settlement there, then why act like helping the Southlands would be that big of an economic advantage. One of you guys more familiar with the lore, did Numenor withdraw from Middle Earth before their end? I can't remember...

Really sad that there's only one episode left. So many loose ends dangling around right now it's maddening.

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powerbelly said:

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TCTTS said:

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Or... they're 20-year-old movies I haven't seen in forever.

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Everyone doesn't rewatch these movies at least annually? Just me?

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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TCTTS said:

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Or... they're 20-year-old movies I haven't seen in forever.

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Everyone doesn't rewatch these movies at least annually? Just me?

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I thought everyone did. TC, you of all people should appreciate greatness more.

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powerbelly said:

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I also don't like that Durin's bain looks so similar to the Peter Jackson version.

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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I also don't like that Durin's bain looks so similar to the Peter Jackson version.

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Durin's Bane looked great though.

Also, why would you want it to look different? Any particular reason or you just want this to be a separate universe?

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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TCTTS said:

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Or... they're 20-year-old movies I haven't seen in forever.

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Everyone doesn't rewatch these movies at least annually? Just me?

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I thought everyone did. TC, you of all people should appreciate greatness more.

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powerbelly said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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I also don't like that Durin's bain looks so similar to the Peter Jackson version.

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Durin's Bane looked great though.

Also, why would you want it to look different? Any particular reason or you just want this to be a separate universe?

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I was just hoping for something different. There are so many ways you could interpret the description from the book.

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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powerbelly said:

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I also don't like that Durin's bain looks so similar to the Peter Jackson version.

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Durin's Bane looked great though.

Also, why would you want it to look different? Any particular reason or you just want this to be a separate universe?

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I was just hoping for something different. There are so many ways you could interpret the description from the book.

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But this is the same cinematic universe as the movies. Plus it's already iconic and the version most people know. Changing it would just be confusing.

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Brian Earl Spilner said:

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TCTTS said:

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PatAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Maximus_Meridius said:

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I know I'm a broken freaking record, but this episode is really another example of why relying on characters that are very well known wasn't a great idea. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is buying that Isildur is dead. There's no tension there. Furthermore, pretty much everyone is aware of the fact that Celeborn is alive and well in the third age, so again, this whole "I never saw him again" is kinda pointless when everyone is basically saying "uh huh, so we can expect to see him at some point in the future". In contrast to that, Isildur's buddy dying? Nobody saw that coming (yet, anyway), and I honestly have no idea if Bronwyn or Arondir live to the end. There is tension there.

---

I'd say I'm a pretty "average" audience member, having only seen the first three movies, and literally the only character I know from the original trilogy is Galadriel. Oh, and I guess Elrond is Agent Smith, right? Either way, I have absolutely no idea who Isildur and Celeborn are in the OT, or that they were even in the OT. Hell, I don't even know who Celeborn is. And Isildur is human, right? How does he even live that long?

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You 100% should know Isildur because of Elrond repeatedly going "ISILDURRR, CAST IT INTO THE FIRE" lol
And you definitely know Elrond.
Most of the flashbacks are specifically about them.

I will disagree about tension, because even though you may know they survive you can still have anticipation of seeing how the story resolves itself.
We knew Saul survives to be in breaking bad, but there is stll tension

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Oh, yeah, ok, I vaguely remember that guy. So the ring would explain how he lives so long.

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Oh my God. I feel like we're being expertly trolled.

But if not....do you really not remember the name that gets mentioned all throughout the trilogy? You know, the guy who cut the ring off Sauron, failed to destroy the ring, and then Aragorn spends an entire trilogy hearing himself be called Isildur's heir? And then getting the sword in the third movie after it gets reforged?

I mean I would understand not knowing Elendil, but Isildur?He literally had more screentime than Sauron and probably as many mentions.

I'm just poking fun, but damn.

This scene alone...

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