*****The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power*****

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The Dog Lord
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In reply to Claude! • 9:22a, 9/11/22
AG
Claude! said:
DallasTeleAg said:
The Witch King was the King of Angmar, which was a northern kingdom, if I remember correctly. I doubt Sauron would be a helpless guy lost at sea.

He may definitely end up being one of the Nine, though. In fact, that seems to be fairly obvious with the reveal that he should basically be Kind of the Southlands.
I thought the Witch-King was already a Nazgl when he founded Angmar, but I could be wrong about that. The lore does say that three of the Nazgl were of Numenor, including possibly the Witch-King.


Correct. Since we don't know exactly who the Witch King was before it could be Halbrand. We really will have to see which direction they're going. Saying he is a king makes total sense for him to end up as a Nazgl, but they could be faking us out and have him be Sauron instead. A deceiver could easily pose as someone stranded at sea to throw people off the scent.
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CondensedFogAggie
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In reply to The Dog Lord • 10:29a, 9/11/22
The Dog Lord said:
Claude! said:
DallasTeleAg said:
The Witch King was the King of Angmar, which was a northern kingdom, if I remember correctly. I doubt Sauron would be a helpless guy lost at sea.

He may definitely end up being one of the Nine, though. In fact, that seems to be fairly obvious with the reveal that he should basically be Kind of the Southlands.
I thought the Witch-King was already a Nazgl when he founded Angmar, but I could be wrong about that. The lore does say that three of the Nazgl were of Numenor, including possibly the Witch-King.


Correct. Since we don't know exactly who the Witch King was before it could be Halbrand. We really will have to see which direction they're going. Saying he is a king makes total sense for him to end up as a Nazgl, but they could be faking us out and have him be Sauron instead. A deceiver could easily pose as someone stranded at sea to throw people off the scent.
True, but the way he saves Galadriel, the way he's trying to find work, even stealing a guild badge, all seems to point to him as being sincere.

Besides, Numenor has already cut ties with the elves and now dislike them. Doesn't that mean Sauron is already working his poison?
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canadiaggie
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In reply to Claude! • 10:57a, 9/11/22
AG
Claude! said:
DallasTeleAg said:
The Witch King was the King of Angmar, which was a northern kingdom, if I remember correctly. I doubt Sauron would be a helpless guy lost at sea.

He may definitely end up being one of the Nine, though. In fact, that seems to be fairly obvious with the reveal that he should basically be Kind of the Southlands.
I thought the Witch-King was already a Nazgl when he founded Angmar, but I could be wrong about that. The lore does say that three of the Nazgl were of Numenor, including possibly the Witch-King.



You are correct. The Witch King settled in Angmar to destabilise the northern kingdoms and made his capital at Carn Dum. This was in the Third Age and he was already one of the Nine at that point.
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The Porkchop Express
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11:21a, 9/11/22
There are so many balls in the air in Numenor, it's hard to tell what's going on, and the show kind of got away with it because the set design was so incredible and we were all so excited to see Isildur and Elendil.

I think there's at least a shot that Sauron is there s the Queen's father and he is the one influencing the policy of no elves. But then who is the king in the tower that Elendil refers to? Is that even a real person or a living person?

Sawyer Lite does a lot of the things we assume Sauron would do in a disguise - charm people into liking him, claim to be a Master Smith, etc., but I don't see the point of that strategy there. He's a clear outsider and it would seem very tough for him to work his way up to any sort of position of influence. In the original story he is taken prisoner by them and sort of seduces them from within right? I can't remember at this point.
.

WARNING: I have a deep-seated desire for others to love the Star Wars franchise as much as I do, in exactly the way I do, and get snippy and sensitive and passive-aggressive when they don't.
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ag88man
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 11:49a, 9/11/22
AG
The Porkchop Express said:

I think there's at least a shot that Sauron is there s the Queen's father and he is the one influencing the policy of no elves.
I was wondering the same thing. Does she have one of those ball things from The Two Towers to contact Sauron with? Maybe her father is Sauron, and is the blurry guy with the orcs.
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redline248
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12:58p, 9/11/22
AG
Halbrand is a prisoner, of sorts, is he not? I mean, he literally is in a jail cell, at the moment. I'm still not sure I believe he is Sauron, especially since the Numenoreans have already been anti-elf for some time.

Did the queen not go up into the tower where the former king is allegedly exiled?

I don't think the palantir (communications globes) have been created yet. Those, in lore, came about once the Numenoreans settled in Middle Earth, I think. Sauron obtains one when his armies take over Minis Morgul (the sister city of Minis Tirith on the Mordor side of the river).

However, and I'm going to hammer this point every time these discussions happen, with the show not having much source material for this age, I think anything is a possibility.
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chase128
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In reply to ag88man • 1:02p, 9/11/22
AG
In the normal timeline sauron doesn't get a palantir until minas ithil falls in the third age
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 1:12p, 9/11/22
AG
Quote:
Sawyer Lite
Well played
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Flatlander
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 2:31p, 9/11/22
AgE2theBONE said:
Ol Jock 99 said:
And Adar? You really need a tip on him?


I suppose I do.

Unless you're meaning that he's Sauron
The problem I have with Adar being Sauron is that they have made such a big deal about searching the width and breadth of Middle Earth to find any sign of Sauron and his minions. Oh wait, turns out they're literally just hiding in a hole in the ground.
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redline248
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In reply to Flatlander • 2:58p, 9/11/22
AG
Flatlander said:
AgE2theBONE said:
Ol Jock 99 said:
And Adar? You really need a tip on him?


I suppose I do.

Unless you're meaning that he's Sauron
The problem I have with Adar being Sauron is that they have made such a big deal about searching the width and breadth of Middle Earth to find any sign of Sauron and his minions. Oh wait, turns out they're literally just hiding in a hole in the ground.
Technically, only Galadriel was searching near and far for him. The elves in the south were basically just watching over the humans to see if they were still evil, or something? Feels like they kind of sucked at their job, otherwise.
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chase128
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3:12p, 9/11/22
AG
Sauron, under the disguise of Annatar the "Lord of Gifts" was able to deceive the elven smiths of Eregion and essentially trick them into forging the rings. I think despite them compressing the timeline, altering the lore for all the legal reasons, they need to keep as close as possible to that betrayal/deception story arc.

I'm hoping that means Adar is just a red herring meant to throw us off the scent. He's probably a servant of Sauron, maybe he becomes one of the Nine later on, but his role for now is to focus the attention of Elves and Men. Sauron, lurking behind the face of a friend to Elves and Men, helps them defeat Adar. Or maybe he convinces Celebrimbor to forge the rings to defeat Adar.

I was kind of disappointed we didn't see Elrond in ep3. The Harfoot story line is dragging on, and there's just too many contradictions with them. I wish we had seen less Harfoots and more Elrond.
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AgE2theBONE
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4:29p, 9/11/22
AG
If the actor playing meteor man was telling the truth and we're really not gonna find out who he is or what his agenda his until next season that kinda irritates me
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TCTTS
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 4:32p, 9/11/22
AG
Yeah, agreed. I seem to be in the minority in that I actually like the idea of him being Gandalf, but if they hold that reveal until next season that's going to be super lame. IMO, even waiting until the final scene of this season would be "acceptable," but any longer than that is just annoying.
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Madmarttigan
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6:11p, 9/11/22
AG
At this point because they are slow balling it it feels more and more like it's just Gandalf and they are trying to keep it mysterious for suspense, but it turns it really lame instead.
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powerbelly
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:14p, 9/11/22
AG
I wish I had never read any of the lore because I really enjoy the show for the most part. Except for the Harfoots. They just need to go away entirely.
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AgE2theBONE
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In reply to Madmarttigan • 6:28p, 9/11/22
AG
Madmarttigan said:
At this point because they are slow balling it it feels more and more like it's just Gandalf and they are trying to keep it mysterious for suspense, but it turns it really lame instead.

I just don't believe it's Gandalf. That's too easy and they also know it's all wrong for the time, and even though we're diverting from the canon in a number of ways, that's a bridge too far.

I'll eat crow if I'm wrong but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, given how well this has been done so far.

If I had to choose right now I'd say Blue Wizard. But it might be something they've invented for the series, which would be cool.
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Kampfers
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In reply to chase128 • 6:41p, 9/11/22
AG
chase128 said:
I was kind of disappointed we didn't see Elrond in ep3.
His cameo in the painting didn't do it for you?
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aggietony2010
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:15p, 9/11/22
AG
TCTTS said:
I finally caught up with the first three episodes, and I have to say, as someone who knows absolutely nothing about this world other than the first three LOTR movies, and thought the trailers made this series look boring, confusing, and unfocused… I'm absolutely loving it so far. I whiffed big time in my anticipation (or lack there of) on this and She-Hulk, and have ended up eating crow on both.

Sadly, also just like She-Hulk, I opened this thread after finally catching up on the show, only to discover a complete sh*t-show, with the usual suspects once again b*tching about the dumbest sh*t ever. All I can say in response is this… for the 400th time, no one here thinks you're racists or bigots. What you are is blinded by anti-woke rage. Because if you actually stopped to objectively consider what it is you're constantly b*tching about, you'd realize that it makes no sense whatsoever. Do some of you *really* think that Amazon, of all companies, is trying to score woke points? Do you *really* think that a multi-billion-dollar behemoth, notorious for treating many of its employees like sh*t, actually has any kind of a woke mandate for this show?

Or, maybe - just maybe - like I've been saying for years now… these studios are trying to reach the biggest audience possible in order to make the most $$$ possible. Which means casting more people of color, so more people of color watch the show. I promise you, it really is that simple. In this day and age, you simply can't make a show this big and this expensive and market it primarily to an all white audience with an all white cast. I know it's hard for some of you to understand, but there are millions of minorities out there who want to see themselves represented in the things they watch, and will be more inclined to watch something if they're represented. You may find that shallow or unrelatable, but for a company like Amazon - and every other Hollywood studio - they recognize that, and it's nothing more a numbers game to them. They want as many eyeballs as they can get, so they can make as much money as they can get. Because they're CORPORATIONS. With shareholders. That's it and that's all. It has NOTHING to do with scoring woke points, and they could not care less if making more money means making a tiny, irrational portion of their audience angry or annoyed that the skin color of Harfoots or Elves or whoever isn't 100% accurate to what amounts to an imaginary world that was invented out of thin air in the first place.


What a ****ty contribution to this thread
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TCTTS
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In reply to aggietony2010 • 7:38p, 9/11/22
AG
I'll take your thumbs up as a show of support, and assume that you meant to say, "What a quality contribution to this thread."

Thank you! You're welcome!
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Claude!
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 8:41p, 9/11/22
Halbrand could be a good guy and still be a future Nazgul. The rings corrupted the Men who received them from Sauron; doesn't mean they started evil.
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Maximus_Meridius
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 9:22p, 9/11/22
AG
AgE2theBONE said:
Madmarttigan said:
At this point because they are slow balling it it feels more and more like it's just Gandalf and they are trying to keep it mysterious for suspense, but it turns it really lame instead.

I just don't believe it's Gandalf. That's too easy and they also know it's all wrong for the time, and even though we're diverting from the canon in a number of ways, that's a bridge too far.

I'll eat crow if I'm wrong but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt, given how well this has been done so far.

If I had to choose right now I'd say Blue Wizard. But it might be something they've invented for the series, which would be cool.
We've completely chucked the canon timeline out the window to the degree that we're (apparently) going to completely skip the War of the Elves and Sauron and drive straight to the Last Alliance. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if baby Bilbo Baggins shows up in the Harfoot line at some point. So no, I don't think Gandalf is a bridge too far for this bunch. *Just to be clear, I am NOT happy about this*

Man, I would love, LOVE for this to be a blue wizard. Talk about potential: so very little is known about them, I'm not sure Tolkien himself really had all that much of their storyline fleshed out, so they have an immense amount of room with which to tell a story in Middle Earth and not be constrained by the lore. Alas, it seems they're going to take the "easy" road and just use a known character.
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AgsMnn
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9:31p, 9/11/22
AG
What's up with the broken sword?

Is that what the Orcs are looking for?
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OnlyForNow
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In reply to AgsMnn • 9:47p, 9/11/22
AG
It's Sauron's sword?

No mention of Khaza Dum?

Pretty much figured the wizard is Gandalf but I don't want it to be.

Are we to assume that the kid (kid with the sword) is Anduir and that chick's kid? Or that they've never even touched. I don't really know what to make of their interactions besides there are "feelings".

TCCTS - black people who wouldn't normally watch LOTR, will now watch this because some cast members are black? Ya right. Nerds who want to watch this would watch it no matter what race the characters are - good or bad - I.e. they could have cast Gladriel as a black man and people would still watch it, they'd moan and be angry but they'd still watch it.
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TCTTS
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:00p, 9/11/22
AG
I didn't say I actively support what they're doing. I'm agnostic on that front. As someone who works in the industry, and has worked with Amazon Studios specifically, I'm merely relaying what the studios are thinking and what their analytics are telling them. For whatever reasons, they're convinced that a more diverse cast = a wider, broader audience, which means more subscriptions, which means more $$$. They wouldn't be doing any of this if they didn't have the numbers to back it up. Again, I ask… do you *really* think that Amazon cares about being "woke" more than making money?
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Chipotlemonger
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10:02p, 9/11/22
AG
I just think the race discussion is so irrelevant considering this is a world of elves, dwarves, Harfoots/Hobbits, etc.

If anything what they did to the WoT casting and story wise is way worse. What they are doing now pales in comparison. This is a new story with little to no literary base point.

Speaking of cast though…The dwarf wife? Great. The elf? Great.
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Madmarttigan
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:08p, 9/11/22
AG
There are a ton of kids who grew up loving the LOTR movies as kids who are now adults, and nerdiness is far more trendy now than it ever was. It ain't only weird white kids into this stuff anymore so yes I agree with TC that this is done for viewership. It honestly sounds a lot more realistic than abunch of rich old white guys being concerned about "wokeness"

And yeah I actually like Arondir, he actually seems to carry the same Elven intensity that Legolas/Elrond had in LOTR movies.
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BowSowy
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 10:17p, 9/11/22
AG
Chipotlemonger said:
I just think the race discussion is so irrelevant considering this is a world of elves, dwarves, Harfoots/Hobbits, etc.

If anything what they did to the WoT casting and story wise is way worse. What they are doing now pales in comparison. This is a new story with little to no literary base point.

Speaking of cast though…The dwarf wife? Great. The elf? Great.
It's also been beaten to death. None of the people upset about it, nor the people upset about the people upset about it are going to have their opinions changed. So just shut up. The people who jump on here admonishing those who are pissed about the diversity of the cast are equally as annoying as the people who are pissed about the diversity of the cast.
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redline248
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 10:51p, 9/11/22
AG
OnlyForNow said:
It's Sauron's sword?

No mention of Khaza Dum?

Pretty much figured the wizard is Gandalf but I don't want it to be.

Are we to assume that the kid (kid with the sword) is Anduir and that chick's kid? Or that they've never even touched. I don't really know what to make of their interactions besides there are "feelings".
Sauron had a mace in the Jackson movie when they showed him vs the last alliance. I would guess they'll go with that for this show.

I think the kid's real dad is dead or something else. Pretty sure Arondir tried to tell the mom he loved her or something, but they've definitely never done anything before whatever we saw in the 1st or 2nd episode.
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schmidthead
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11:18p, 9/11/22
Arad is Benjen Stark for FFS, not Sauron
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AgE2theBONE
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1:14a, 9/12/22
AG
I think the fact that so many are convinced meteor man is Gandalf is another reason I strongly suspect it's not.
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OnlyForNow
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In reply to AgE2theBONE • 6:17a, 9/12/22
AG
Well, he's a wizard Harry.

And my point about casting-race was strictly to talk to TCCTS regarding his statement that having a more diverse cast will increase viewership.

I just find that hard to believe for something this nich. But if they have the data, they have the reason. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Both characters called out seeming were cast great. Really like how they portray the dwarves and elves, respectively.
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TCTTS
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In reply to OnlyForNow • 6:24a, 9/12/22
AG
I hear you. My only slight pushback would be that this isn't at all niche. Fantasy is now mainstream, and this is literally the most expensive series ever made in the history of television. By a long shot. So Amazon needs the audience size to justify their spend.
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Madmarttigan
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7:09a, 9/12/22
AG
Yeah I was about to say do we really consider fantasy to be niche anymore?

Harry Potter, LoTR movies, and game of thrones have exploded the genre. Not to mention Marvel has a ton of fantasy elements as well.
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MaroonStain
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7:23a, 9/12/22
AG
If Star Man is Gandalf then that is just lazy writing. Gandalf is not 8,000 years old in LOTR.
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OnlyForNow
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:38a, 9/12/22
AG
Understandable, and as you said, Amazon and the rest have done market research and they figure that this helps get news eyes (meaning more $$$) or doesn't hurt their bottom line.


They also haven't (at least not yet) changed any characters which we should reasonably assume to be "X" to be "Y" - although maybe Tolkien did have very detailed explanations for Elf races - I don't remember if skin color was one of them.
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