Tokyo Vice

23,751 Views | 254 Replies | Last: 16 days ago by Max Power
PatAg
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If you don't have Jake's character, you lose a lot of insight into Sato's character (who I also thought was great in this series)

I am with you in spirit though, I'd watch a show set in this world without the need to have an American present to relate to. If you have good writing, cast good actors, have a good director, people will watch your show/movie.
Prosperdick
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PatAg said:

If you don't have Jake's character, you lose a lot of insight into Sato's character (who I also thought was great in this series)

I am with you in spirit though, I'd watch a show set in this world without the need to have an American present to relate to. If you have good writing, cast good actors, have a good director, people will watch your show/movie.
Or maybe keep Samantha, who can give you some American perspective but not such a heavy dose like we got with Jake. Oh well, it's wishful thinking so I'll stop commenting further.
javajaws
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Great show, but a terrible wtf last episode. So disappointing.
Head Ninja In Charge
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schmendeler said:

I feel like they kind of need to get to the scene that opened the first episode.
One million percent.
Head Ninja In Charge
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You would need to keep Jake's character. Or someone from the newspaper. It's the common thread tying together the law enforcement side and the criminal element. Very much like the Wire. I think they did a good job for the most part of creating that central hub element and showing a lot of the inevitable conflicts and pitfalls that can come along with it. There were multiple times where Jake had to be reminded who he was working for and I feel like if they lose that middle-man character, this just becomes another basic cops and robbers show.
TCTTS
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schmendeler said:

I feel like they kind of need to get to the scene that opened the first episode.

I've never seen a show do the flash-forward cold open thing and then NOT lead back up to it in the same season. Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul are the only exceptions to the rule that I can think of, but the audience is more in on the ruse/format with those, and doesn't expect payoffs for those until way later. Here, however, I was 100% certain we were going to then lead back to that moment by the finale. And I too was under the impression at first, for whatever reason, that this was a limited series and not a continuing series. They really dropped the ball on all of that, IMO. It's just so disappointing because episodes one through seven made for one of the best shows I've seen in years.
210
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Holy **** I didn't realize that was the season finale, what a disappointment.

Overall, I really enjoyed the show, even with its flaws - story/character arcs that were irrelevant, characters acting outside of how they were developed, and then the lack of closure in the last episode.

Great setting for a show and interesting characters but with some major issues.
FL_Ag1998
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Head Ninja In Charge said:

You would need to keep Jake's character. Or someone from the newspaper. It's the common thread tying together the law enforcement side and the criminal element. Very much like the Wire. I think they did a good job for the most part of creating that central hub element and showing a lot of the inevitable conflicts and pitfalls that can come along with it. There were multiple times where Jake had to be reminded who he was working for and I feel like if they lose that middle-man character, this just becomes another basic cops and robbers show.


If they got rid of Jake I would be totally fine following his female boss as the lead character from the newspaper angle. Just like Sato and Miyamoto, I felt like she had a charisma that came through, and I really liked her character. In fact I think she was underutilized and would have much rather seen more of her and less of Samantha.

And as someone else mentioned, a Katagiri-Miyamoto vs Yakuza show would absolutely be must-see TV.
FL_Ag1998
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Prosperdick said:

PatAg said:

If you don't have Jake's character, you lose a lot of insight into Sato's character (who I also thought was great in this series)

I am with you in spirit though, I'd watch a show set in this world without the need to have an American present to relate to. If you have good writing, cast good actors, have a good director, people will watch your show/movie.
Or maybe keep Samantha, who can give you some American perspective but not such a heavy dose like we got with Jake. Oh well, it's wishful thinking so I'll stop commenting further.


Ugh, Samantha was easily the worst and most unlikeable character on the show. Her as the only non-cop/non-yakuza viewpoint would be a huge turnoff to me.
WES2006AG
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FL_Ag1998 said:

Prosperdick said:

PatAg said:

If you don't have Jake's character, you lose a lot of insight into Sato's character (who I also thought was great in this series)

I am with you in spirit though, I'd watch a show set in this world without the need to have an American present to relate to. If you have good writing, cast good actors, have a good director, people will watch your show/movie.
Or maybe keep Samantha, who can give you some American perspective but not such a heavy dose like we got with Jake. Oh well, it's wishful thinking so I'll stop commenting further.


Ugh, Samantha was easily the worst and most unlikeable character on the show. Her as the only non-cop/non-yakuza viewpoint would be a huge turnoff to me.
Couldn't agree more. I didn't care about her story arc at all until the final couple of episodes and even then it was pretty meh.
Head Ninja In Charge
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I actually liked and was interested in her story arc at first. And then she just kept getting ****tier and ****tier. She was always yelling and being a jerk to her friends/Sato/Jake whenever they slightly inconvenienced her, she made the dumbest decisions for someone who I think was supposed to be portrayed as street smart, and was just generally unlikeable after a few episodes.

Literally everyone on the show had at least one likeable/redeeming thing about them:

Jake - The man loved to dance and I found that hilarious
Sato - Strong opinions on pop music
Miyamoto - A charismatic scoundrel
Katagiri - The moral compass
Emi - She seems like a good boss to work for
Tozawa - A cool bad guy
Ishida - A VERY cool bad guy


Samantha just sucked.
TCTTS
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Great analysis. Very well put.
schmendeler
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The worst to me was her basically manipulating Sato into killing a dude for her because she knew he cared for her. She's a virus.
javajaws
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Head Ninja In Charge said:

I actually liked and was interested in her story arc at first. And then she just kept getting ****tier and ****tier. She was always yelling and being a jerk to her friends/Sato/Jake whenever they slightly inconvenienced her, she made the dumbest decisions for someone who I think was supposed to be portrayed as street smart, and was just generally unlikeable after a few episodes.

Literally everyone on the show had at least one likeable/redeeming thing about them:

Jake - The man loved to dance and I found that hilarious
Sato - Strong opinions on pop music
Miyamoto - A charismatic scoundrel
Katagiri - The moral compass
Emi - She seems like a good boss to work for
Tozawa - A cool bad guy
Ishida - A VERY cool bad guy


Samantha just sucked.

To be fair, I don't even recall her doing THAT in the show!
Head Ninja In Charge
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The hostess with the leastest.
Kampfers
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schmendeler said:

The worst to me was her basically manipulating Sato into killing a dude for her because she knew he cared for her. She's a virus.
Agreed, although I liked this in terms of her character development. She knew what she was asking Sato to do and yet still recoiled from him as a result of it. I think it shows the disconnect between who she is and who she views herself to be. It also emphasizes the murkiness of who is "good" between the characters. We know Sato is a killer, and yet we like him - at least he recognizes what/who he is. But he's also shown to still care for his family - regardless of how his mother/father may view him. Similarly, Jake is crossing all sorts of ethical lines for his career and friends, hiring prostitutes when he's supposed to be working, etc. Other than Katagiri (and potentially Emi), there are a lot of morally gray characters, or at least likable "bad" characters and flawed "good" ones.

I think with Samantha, it gets back to a point of contention that thread about "dumb characters in cool shows". Just because she's dislikable doesn't mean she's poorly written. So far, all of her actions seem to fall in line with who she is. Someone that likes to pretend she cares about others, but in reality is mostly concerned about herself. Given her actions both w/Sato and in the past, it seems like she struggles to take ownership of her ****tiest actions. She also seems to get hyperfocused on her goals - getting away from her Mormon mission, finding Polina, opening her club - without really considering the full consequences, even if she is warned about them. The only thing that's arguably not aligned to her character was her decision to trust the host and take all her money to exchange for Polina - something I'm fine to contribute to her frazzled mental state due to the whole smoking meth incident.

In that regard I like her inclusion because she adds to the reality of the world. She adds depth as her morality and/or perception of that provides a good foil to Jake and Sato.
La Fours
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Are we 100% sure there isn't a 9th episode coming out this week? I could have sworn that IMDb listed 10 episodes for the season.
La Fours
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The HBOMAX app has the show listed in "new episode this week".
PatAg
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La Fours said:

The HBOMAX app has the show listed in "new episode this week".
I see that as well, that would be a very large mistake.
TCTTS
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Futon Critic, which is the best source I've ever found for episode counts, originally said 10 episodes. Even as late as last week. Now they say eight. There was also something on HBO that officially said "finale," but didn't say "season" or "series," which I thought was interesting.
La Fours
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I just checked IMDb and it only lists 8 episodes. If that holds true, then it's big let down for Yoshino to be the season finale.
La Fours
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And it's not listed under "new episodes this week" either.
Kampfers
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imdb is not the end all, be all. afaik it's mostly updated via user contributions, like wikipedia. considering that everyone has no idea whether another episode is coming or not, it's not surprising that it hasn't been updated there yet.

it's still listed on the hbomax site. if that were a mistake you'd think they would have fixed it by now
TCTTS
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Guys, that was 100% the finale. As bad as it was, that not only *felt* like a finale, but again, HBO is officially calling it the "finale." They used that exact word. The only question remaining is whether it was the season or series finale.
Furlock Bones
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That better not be the end of the show. ****.
Furlock Bones
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And if it is the end, then once again Michael Mann gets screwed out of the proper ending to a Vice movie/series thanks to one of his lead actors.
Madmarttigan
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Finally finished this, enjoyed it and hope we get the rest of the story. Only wtf was Sato I assume dying. Probably my favorite character.
HerschelwoodHardhead
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Finally watched episode 8. I knew it was the last episode, and I was still like "wtf" and checked IMDb to see if there were a couple more episodes that were just delayed in release.

Great show, horrible ending. Did HBO axe the last couple episodes cause of the elgort controversy? Definitely is not set up like any season ending episode I've ever seen before.
schmendeler
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It's almost like what you would do before a mid season break or intermission or something.
schmidthead
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Are we absolutely sure there will NOT be a second season?
TCTTS
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No, we're not sure about anything. But the fact that a second season hasn't been announced yet isn't a good sign.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Hate to say it, but I'd be surprised if there was a second season at this point.
BenFiasco14
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Lot of negative Nancy-chans in here
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
500,000ags
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I've been randomly checking for new episodes to be added this season. Jeez
jackie childs
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geez, if that winds up being the series finale, i'll feel so manipulated that i'd assume Samantha is the show's producer
 
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