Any word if this is going to be good? It starts April 7th. Just curious

Just saw the trailer on IG. Looks awesome, gritty as hell.

It's from Michael Mann, so do with that information what you will. The question is, do we get classic Mann or 2015/Blackhat Mann? That said, I think he merely directed the pilot/didn't mastermind the entire thing, I've heard good things, and the trailer does indeed look incredible.

Tokyo Vice
Season 1 (10 Episodes)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887954/
April 7, 2022
HBO Max

Isn't the lead the guy with the sex harassment allegations against him?

It does look interesting, but if Mann is directing I'll wait for some reviews that tell me it's not style and bang bang boom over substance. Most of his stuff is as deep as a puddle.

oragator said:

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Isn't the lead the guy with the sex harassment allegations against him?

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Yes, Ansel Elgort. He also just starred in Spielberg's West Side Story. I know an exec who worked on this show, and they basically said they were taking Spielberg's lead, since Elgort shot both projects before the allegations came out. So, when Spielberg decided not to reshoot the role, they decided not to either. That, and apparently Elgort spent months learning Japanese, so recasting would have basically been impossible. Elgort was even part of the recent press tour for WSS, so I'm assuming the allegations weren't super serious (as I can't even remember what they were).

I read the book this is based on. As I recall, it was a reasonably interesting work of fiction passed off as a true story by the author, who is apparently something of a ******bag.

TCTTS said:

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It's from Michael Mann, so do with that information what you will. The question is, do we get classic Mann or 2015/Blackhat Mann? That said, I think he merely directed the pilot/didn't mastermind the entire thing, I've heard good things, and the trailer does indeed look incredible.

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either way, we'll have some fun with this on the Ringer podcasts

the trailer does look incredible and the series has the potential to be a really thrilling story

Anyone had a chance to check this out yet? The first three episodes dropped last night. I probably won't get to see it until this weekend, but reviews seem to be pretty good so far.

I watched the first episode today. It's interesting. I feel like you really get a sense the protagonist's foreignness in the culture. I'll be watching more for sure.

Nice. Good to hear.

Watched all 3 episodes and I'm hooked!

Watched the first two and I love it so far. Crime shows are my jam, and this feels like a huge Michael Mann film. Elgort is good and I normally don't care for him. There's a lot to learn about the world, but there's not a ton of exposition, in a good way. You learn as he learns. Elgort and the girl from Legion/Fargo had to have spent a lot of time learning to speak Japanese. Watanabe has been on screen very little so far but that is going to change I'm sure.

And yes I can't wait for Chris Ryan and Bill to talk about this on The Ringer. An American reporter in Japan investigating the yakuza will be right up their alley. That is a better topic than them doing yet another Rewatchable on Heat.

Awesome to hear. Also, Chris just did a 20-minute interview with Mann on Thursday's episode of The Watch. I wanted a little primer before I dive in, and it's exactly that. Just gives some good context and makes you really appreciate the effort they put into it and the access they were able to get.

(Though the most entertaining part by far is learning that Mann is a huge Euphoria fan, which is hilarious to me. He seriously LOVES it.)

As long as we don't have Jamie Fox ruining the ending. It should be good.

Agreed. Though I've been relieved that there's been no mention of periods.

Not gonna lie, my hopes got up when the cassette tape was delivered and he put on the walkman....I was sure this is how they transition this show to a musical.

But no.

"We don't talk about sumos no no no"

Are they down playing the idea of the hostess bars? I mean is it more prostitutiony than they are showing or is it just that terrible.
You get bottle service just to talk to a chick. So let's take the worst parts of a night club and combine it with the worst parts of a stripe club and include none of the upside from either.

My understanding is that those type of bars are definitely a thing. But I think there are also places where they do more than just talk. Someone more into Japanese culture should chime in.

This show good

TCTTS said:

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Finally caught up and yeah, this is badass. It really is unlike anything on TV. I can't remember the last time I was so immersed in a world I've never quite seen before and knew nothing about, in exactly this way. The characters, the story, the atmosphere… it's all so unique and so damn cool. There's also something very adult and old school about it. Almost as if it's specifically *not* made for mass consumption, which is so rare and refreshing these days. That, and not only is set in the '90s, it literally feels like a classic, '90s-era Michael Mann flick, just expanded across 10 hours.

I love that we still have seven more weeks of this, and I can't wait to see where it goes.

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This is what I think I am enjoying more than anything so far. Strong throwback vibe to it.

Also the melon shopping... just so, well, foreign.

What day do new episodes come out?

Duncan Idaho said:

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Are they down playing the idea of the hostess bars? I mean is it more prostitutiony than they are showing or is it just that terrible.
You get bottle service just to talk to a chick. So let's take the worst parts of a night club and combine it with the worst parts of a stripe club and include none of the upside from either.

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It's basically what it's portrayed as, and sounds pretty pathetic. Japanese are weird, man. Regardless, love this show. From quora:

"A Japanese hostess bar is a drinking establishment which employs women to interact with customers in various ways. The customers usually pay an additional fee, in addition to their drinks, for this service. One type of hostess bar is also called a "snack" bar, because the bar pretends that the extra fee is actually for the small snack foods that are served to the customers as they interact with the female employees. For example, you might see a hostess bar in Japan called (often in English) something like, "Snack Kaori".

The additional price paid by customers at a hostess bar usually is quite exorbitant. The bars are generally frequented by men who are unwilling or unable to interact with attractive women in a social setting on their own. The interaction between the customers and the hostesses at the bars is typically limited to talking/flirting (with some light touching), drinking overpriced beverages (especially sparkling wine/champagne, but some employ the practice of having the customer buy a bottle of whisky which is kept at the bar for them to drink from whenever they visit), and singing karaoke. Many hostess bars try to cultivate "regulars" by encouraging the hostesses to go out to dinner with their favorite customers BEFORE the bar opens at night, then bringing the customer with them to the bar. The bar usually does not encourage their hostesses to date the customers to any additional degree than this, although it sometimes happens. Some hostesses will cultivate a "sugar daddy/baby" relationship with their regulars, who will buy them gifts, but a sexual relationship is usually not involved. Thus, what most hostess bars are selling amounts to nothing more than unrequited sexual tension and flirtation as part of Japanese nightlife's unique custom of elegantly and politely vacuuming up the entire contents of their customers' wallets and sometimes their bank accounts.

Sometimes a hostess bar will post some of their hostesses outside on the street early in the evening to try to bring in customers. Normally, they'll have a male staff member nearby ready to intercede if they get harassed by any of the drunk passerby. Some of the women, usually young, work as hostesses as a second job while some do it as their sole occupation. Working as a hostess is seen as moderately seedy and off-color in Japanese culture, but not overly so. But for this reason, many women in the hostess industry will keep it to themselves that they ever did that kind of work. Some hostesses will suffer some health problems or premature aging from excessive alcohol consumption or disruptions to their sleep cycles from the nature of the work.

If you search around some of the expat discussion forums about living in Japan, you'll see some stories of non-Japanese boasting about going to a hostess bar and hooking up with one of the hostesses. It can happen. But, my advice to most visitors to Japan is to give hostess bars a wide berth, as 90% of the time you'll spend hundreds of dollars and nothing will come of it. Also, some hostess bars operated directly by the Yakuza are notorious for extorting inflated bill payments from the customers. If that happens to you, the police will often not intervene on your behalf. If a good Japanese friend who you can trust invites you to a hostess bar, however, that's a different story, as they'll usually pick one that is more legitimate and he will explain to you how much it's going to cost and will ensure that you both get the best value for your money. If you can experience a hostess bar with a Japanese friend to run interference for you, then that may be a good way to see what they're like without spending too much money."

hbc07 said:

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What day do new episodes come out?

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Thursday

Episode 4: when Jake and Sato are in the car listening to the song, what does Sato think the lyrics are alluding to? I get that he thinks it's something sexual but it seems pretty ambiguous?

Ok, I thought maybe but wasn't sure.

I caught episode 4 last night and episode 5 today, still love this show. Almost all the characters have awesome chemistry together, Jake and Sato, as well as Jake and Hiroto are the best parts of the show to me. I loved the Backstreet vs NSync banter. Rachel doesn't seem to have any chemistry with anyone to be honest, she's pretty, but doesn't seem to have any charisma. I can't tell if that's by design for her character, or if she's just like that as an actress in everything (I haven't watched Fargo or Legion in a while.) This show even makes me feel like Ansel Elgort is likeable.

I'm assuming Rachel slept with Sato to try and have him take care of the guy that's after her. I don't get the feeling she gets attached to anyone. It was pretty easy to figure out the Kume was the one trying to undermine the outfit. The fight at the end of episode 5 was solid. Are they trying to imply that Tozawa has AIDS? They've showed that spot on his face that he has to coverup a couple of times now.