Is anyone going to see comic book movies for suspense? I went and watched it because I'm bored and it looked cool, but I was guessing a moody young man dressed as a bat was going to use some gadgets to defy the odds and beat bad guys asses but also feel like he isn't doing enough to save his city and face his own demons. It's a ****ing comic book and they're all the same.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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It was everything Gen Z wanted, Twilight guy as Batman, a moody Nirvana song, no fetishized female characters, emotionally muted performances, a social media villain...Nolan's series was made for us, which is why everyone under 25 finds them "cringe".

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this is an underrated assessment.

but I hate the Nolan batman. I loved Clooney as batman and the old school TV show.

I want a broody emotionally stunted batman and super zany absurd villains. The beauty of batman (to me) is the juxtaposition of the darkest most serious Gothic superhero and setting, then these over the top villains. bring me baby doll and the royal flush gang.

edited for a hilarious auto correct adjustment

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What in the hell is wrong with you?

what can I say, I like nipples.

Brosnan is my favorite bond, so suck it Trebek. I enjoy what I enjoy.

fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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. I lost count of how many people he beat up when he walked into the club early in the movie. Like the guys conveniently lined up and waited for their turn.

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Yeah, I'd expect random security guys and off duty cops to much more quickly converge on a guy who took out their doorman and his brother then quickly made his way through a darkened club. Don't know why they aren't just sitting there waiting for this exact scenario to occur.

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So you are claiming that a 1v10 fight against bouncers is realistic?

I need to say no more

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No, I'm claiming that your idea that a group of security people spread out over a warehouse sized club should have been able to quickly converge on a surprise intruder in the dark is absurd.

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I didn't say that. But 2 to 3 bouncers should have been able to overpower him. Never mind 5, 6, or more.

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I'll have to rewatch, but I don't recall an instance in that scene where there were 5-6 bouncers around him.

Do I buy that a highly trained guy in an armored suit could take out 2-3 semi prepared bouncers in various states of intoxication in short order? Absolutely.

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Bouncers shouldn't be intoxicated at all, and I don't remember any of them being portrayed that way.

The movie simply took his invincibility too far. From taking 1000 rounds of automatic fire to the chest no problem (why did nobody aim for the face from 2 feet away?), to kicking too many people's asses at once with his fists, etc. It was common theme throughout.

The Nolan movies made it more about him sneaking around and getting one (or at most 2) at a time. That is until his last one, which had several ridiculous 2v10 fights. But that is Nolan's worst, and I put it behind this movie in my ranking list.

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They shouldn't be, doesn't mean they weren't (and I didn't get the feeling this was the tightest run ship in the world).

And the argument apparently just changed that he's just too invincible rather than the 5-6 guys scenario He's a guy in padded armor who took some shots but was more skilled than his opponents.

Was he a little too strong/lucky/able to take a hit? Welcome to every action movie.

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Is there no such thing as too far for you? What if he took on 1000 people?

An example I just thought up was the first Matrix vs the rest. In the first one a 1v1 fight against an agent was suspenseful because he usually got his ass kicked (and should have died). In the later movies, where he was taking on 1000 agent Smiths at once was boring.

Teacher_Ag said:

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Is anyone going to see comic book movies for suspense?

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Uhhh.. yes? Unless they like crappy movies.

George Clooney was a solid Bruce Wayne.

How's that for a hot take?

Get on my level.

Nothing about comic book movies is suspenseful. It's entertaining, but suspense isn't the point. You know who is going to survive, overcome the odds, and save the day every time. If Pattinson walked into the club and got hit in the head with a brick and the credits rolled at least you'd watch the next comic book flick with a bit of suspense.

Brosnan Bond

aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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aTmAg said:

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fig96 said:

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Quote:

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. I lost count of how many people he beat up when he walked into the club early in the movie. Like the guys conveniently lined up and waited for their turn.

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Yeah, I'd expect random security guys and off duty cops to much more quickly converge on a guy who took out their doorman and his brother then quickly made his way through a darkened club. Don't know why they aren't just sitting there waiting for this exact scenario to occur.

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So you are claiming that a 1v10 fight against bouncers is realistic?

I need to say no more

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No, I'm claiming that your idea that a group of security people spread out over a warehouse sized club should have been able to quickly converge on a surprise intruder in the dark is absurd.

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I didn't say that. But 2 to 3 bouncers should have been able to overpower him. Never mind 5, 6, or more.

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I'll have to rewatch, but I don't recall an instance in that scene where there were 5-6 bouncers around him.

Do I buy that a highly trained guy in an armored suit could take out 2-3 semi prepared bouncers in various states of intoxication in short order? Absolutely.

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Bouncers shouldn't be intoxicated at all, and I don't remember any of them being portrayed that way.

The movie simply took his invincibility too far. From taking 1000 rounds of automatic fire to the chest no problem (why did nobody aim for the face from 2 feet away?), to kicking too many people's asses at once with his fists, etc. It was common theme throughout.

The Nolan movies made it more about him sneaking around and getting one (or at most 2) at a time. That is until his last one, which had several ridiculous 2v10 fights. But that is Nolan's worst, and I put it behind this movie in my ranking list.

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They shouldn't be, doesn't mean they weren't (and I didn't get the feeling this was the tightest run ship in the world).

And the argument apparently just changed that he's just too invincible rather than the 5-6 guys scenario He's a guy in padded armor who took some shots but was more skilled than his opponents.

Was he a little too strong/lucky/able to take a hit? Welcome to every action movie.

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Is there no such thing as too far for you? What if he took on 1000 people?

An example I just thought up was the first Matrix vs the rest. In the first one a 1v1 fight against an agent was suspenseful because he usually got his ass kicked (and should have died). In the later movies, where he was taking on 1000 agent Smiths at once was boring.

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You got me. I do in fact think Batman could take on 1000 people at one time and win. He's that good.

Now since I never said anything resembling that, let's review. In this film he's never up against more than a couple guys at once outside the gang of totally untrained thugs at the beginning of the film.

Him being able to take out a few semi trained (relative to him) bouncers at a time when they have no idea what's coming at them is totally within the realm of possibility, and there's not a bunch of them coming at him at once because it's total chaos trying to even find him and understand what's going on in this giant dark club.

Average Joe said:

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aTmAg said:

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Average Joe said:

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aTmAg said:

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AgfromHOU said:

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And you've successfully beaten that horse to death

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Seems like somebody needs to counter the 23 straight pages of undeserved gushing this movie has been getting.

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So, you hated it so much that you want everyone else to be just as miserable about it? You sound like fun.

Here's an honest take for you: Nolan's Batman was hyper unrealistic, as well, and if it wasn't for Heath Ledger the only thing it would have going for it was that it wasn't Tim Burton.

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And the Nolan movies were vastly superior to this one. This is basically the Marvelization of Batman (which is a bad thing).

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I feel like you could take the costumes off Batman, Catwoman and Riddler

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At least then the movie would have gotten a rise out of me.

Teacher_Ag said:

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Nothing about comic book movies is suspenseful. It's entertaining, but suspense isn't the point. You know who is going to survive, overcome the odds, and save the day every time. If Pattinson walked into the club and got hit in the head with a brick and the credits rolled at least you'd watch the next comic book flick with a bit of suspense.

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Suspense is ALWAYS a point in action movies. That's why every Superman has their kryptonite. It's storytelling 101.

This isn't a standard action movie. It's a comic book movie. You know no matter how many dudes try to kill Batman he isn't going to lose. It doesn't matter if they cast the Rock or Michael Cera, Batman is going to walk into dangerous places and not actually be in danger. If you actually have suspense that he's going to lose or die I admire that level of detachment.

Average Joe said:

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aTmAg said:

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Average Joe said:

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aTmAg said:

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AgfromHOU said:

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And you've successfully beaten that horse to death

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Seems like somebody needs to counter the 23 straight pages of undeserved gushing this movie has been getting.

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So, you hated it so much that you want everyone else to be just as miserable about it? You sound like fun.

Here's an honest take for you: Nolan's Batman was hyper unrealistic, as well, and if it wasn't for Heath Ledger the only thing it would have going for it was that it wasn't Tim Burton.

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And the Nolan movies were vastly superior to this one. This is basically the Marvelization of Batman (which is a bad thing).

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I loved the Nolan movies, don't get me wrong, but it was a completely different feel.

I actually had the opposite impression regarding being too much like marvel. I think the Nolan movies were much more marvelized. I feel like you could take the costumes off Batman, Catwoman and Riddler and this movie would still make complete sense as a non comic movie.

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To me, I have a hard time with the tights and masks in general. The whole concept of superheros is stupid to me. However, batman is the only one where it makes sense because he has no superpowers, his suit actually provides protection, and he needs to hide his identity to keep the mob going after him as Bruce Wayne (or Alfred). This movie's only suspenseful moment is in wondering if the Riddler knew he was Bruce Wayne. It would have been worse if he was out of uniform.

The Nolan costumes all made sense. The only reason the scarecrow had a mask at all was to make himself scarier when they were on that drug high. Liam Neeson never wore a disguise, the Joker was insane, and Bane needed it to breath for some reason. Oh and catwoman hid her face because she stole stuff (but her high heels were ridiculous).

Teacher_Ag said:

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This isn't a standard action movie. It's a comic book movie. You know no matter how many dudes try to kill Batman he isn't going to lose. It doesn't matter if they cast the Rock or Michael Cera, Batman is going to walk into dangerous places and not actually be in danger. If you actually have suspense that he's going to lose or die I admire that level of detachment.

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Ironman died in End Game. I think they killed Superman in one of the Ben Affleck movies. And if more superheros actually died sometimes, the movies would be 1000X better. They can have new characters put on the tights and take on that legacy. But knowing a given fight MIGHT be lost, it would be far less lame.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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So you don't like the genre at all, but this one gets a pass except when it does things that are very specific to the genre it is in?

Got it. Say no more.

Please, say no more.

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When they follow the same lame formula then it's lame. That's the nature of lameness. The Nolan movies were great because they were first (I can think of) that broke from that formula. They were the first superhero movies that weren't merely "good for a superhero movie" but good movies period.

FAN THEORY: in the next movie Pattinson will wear a full-face mask as Batman. Bruce Wayne will get more face time and Gordon/Alfred/Bad Guy will carry a lot of the acting burden.

aTmAg said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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This isn't a standard action movie. It's a comic book movie. You know no matter how many dudes try to kill Batman he isn't going to lose. It doesn't matter if they cast the Rock or Michael Cera, Batman is going to walk into dangerous places and not actually be in danger. If you actually have suspense that he's going to lose or die I admire that level of detachment.

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Ironman died in End Game. I think they killed Superman in one of the Ben Affleck movies. And if more superheros actually died sometimes, the movies would be 1000X better. They can have new characters put on the tights and take on that legacy. But knowing a given fight MIGHT be lost, it would be far less lame.

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So this is now your anti-comic book movie manifesto that we are all being subjected to. Wonderful.

CC09LawAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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This isn't a standard action movie. It's a comic book movie. You know no matter how many dudes try to kill Batman he isn't going to lose. It doesn't matter if they cast the Rock or Michael Cera, Batman is going to walk into dangerous places and not actually be in danger. If you actually have suspense that he's going to lose or die I admire that level of detachment.

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Ironman died in End Game. I think they killed Superman in one of the Ben Affleck movies. And if more superheros actually died sometimes, the movies would be 1000X better. They can have new characters put on the tights and take on that legacy. But knowing a given fight MIGHT be lost, it would be far less lame.

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So this is now your anti-comic book movie manifesto that we are all being subjected to. Wonderful.

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It is wonderful. They would be 1000X better to actually be suspenseful for a change.

Remember how everybody bashed the hell out of the GoT Battle of Winterfell episode because none of the main characters died? That is virtually EVERY superhero movie in existence. So you guys put your bar at one of the most hated episodes of GoT ever. Way to aim high.

I said it was decent. That's better than "not liking it".

I have it above all MCU movies and just behind BB and ahead of TDKR. That's not shabby.

Just not the greatest thing since sliced bread. You guys just can't handle it.

I'm over atmag's arguing at this point but I do think that action sequences should be suspenseful beyond "I think this character is going to die here." No, superheroes aren't going to get headshotted suddenly or risk true injury while fighting some goons, but a good action sequence is still thrilling. How you define thrilling is up to you but it's usually some combo of risk and adrenaline.

Luke Cage (bullet-proof) beating up goons who have nothing but guns and knifes = not thrilling

Ethan Hunt in a motorcycle chase in heavy traffic = thrilling

Neither character is going to die here but one is more dynamic than the other. Opinions vary on this (as seen in this thread!) but I prefer a Batman who can't walk directly into machine gun fire.

It's why Iron Man would be in situations where his VI would be telling him how his suit is at 12%, power levels critical, etc. The illusion of risk is important, even when your characters are near invincible. It's why John Wick takes the occasional knife wound or Daredevil gets slammed through a door. To be honest, Batman taking that kind of punishment while having an exposed mouth felt silly to me. I know that's a staple of every cowl but it felt like the Mandalorian where nobody can hit anything but the impenetrable parts of the armor.

I'm gonna change my name to Fight Scene Connoisseur soon. It's a delicate art.

Agree 100%. You said it better than I did.

Was kind of looking forward to the pro-Batman dissertation but I'm glad hot yoga went well.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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what can I say, I like nipples.

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Who here doesn't?

Could someone remind me where Batman and Gordon typically met? Was it the roof of the PD station?

I'm now questioning why Gordon's plan to help Batman escape, involved going to such a high roof. Especially when in the escape, Batman looked like it was much higher than he was used to