I guess we are scared of different things. He didn't scare me at all. If anything, it was cartoonish.

They tried to outdo all other batmen by making him faster than all the others, but it's over the top now. I lost count of how many people he beat up when he walked into the club early in the movie. Like the guys conveniently lined up and waited for their turn. It's getting into Superman territory where there is no suspense in a fight anymore. You know, he could walk into an astrodome full of bad guys and he would somehow find a way to kick the crap out of every last one.

And getting shot with a vest hurts like a mofo. If it didn't, then you would be walking in 1 inch steel plating and no human could do that. The only shot that I remember doing any harm was that shotgun blast at the end. But even that made no sense, since it blew him back like 10 yards which means it should have pushed the shooter back 10 yards too.

They should have swung the pendulum the other way. Make the dude able to handle his own in a 1v1 or even 1v2 fight, but make him smart enough to not engage in a 1v10 fight. Beat the bad guys with smarts and gadgets, not with fighting skills that would put Mike Tyson to shame.

DallasTeleAg said:

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I also find it funny how many of us love the fact they actually show him applying the makeup to his eyes because of how realistic it is. Then you have others who just seem like so much in a rush to scream "emo!" that they just don't care.

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It's not the eye makeup. Just the way he looked in general. The hair. The "I cut myself at night" look on his face 24/7. All of it.

DallasTeleAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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Not to mention, "I want my Bruce Wayne to be a suave playboy" is such a weird request of a character whose whole schtick is that he's so damaged he literally dresses up like a bat at night and takes his anger/sadness out on criminals. This version of a Bruce, at this point in his life, makes WAY more sense. Again, we'll get suave Bruce eventually.

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This is exactly my thought.

We are literally talking about one of the most brooding superheroes in the genre. Someone who has no superpowers and focuses his life on getting revenge on the world. The guy is obviously suffering from mental issues.

Also, it seems like many of the critiques I am also seeing is that it isn't realistic enough. Where's the line for some of you?

Billionaire dresses up in a bat costume and beats up criminals.

aTmAg: Okay... i can buy all of that, but how many criminals at once? Because I personally have a problem with more than two!

At some point, we have to remember this is a freaking comic book movie. It seems to be getting more critique than just about any other super hero movie.

Can aTmAg not watch Thor, because hammers can't fly? Gamma radiation also doesn't create a giant green rage monster, you know. Also, the Ironman suit isn't real.

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My point on that is more about the lack of suspense than the realism. I've never complained about Superman being unrealistic. The dude gets shot in the eyeball and the bullet disintegrates, for crying out loud. Realism is out of the window. But there is never any suspense with Superman. He is too ridiculously powerful. You KNOW that all he has to do is grit his teeth a little harder and he will be able to do ANYTHING. Including move entire planets if necessary. That makes it BORING.

What has made Batman the best superhero, IMO is that he's not really "super". He's a well trained guy with a bunch of gadgets. But this movie has taken it over the top and into Superman territory, IMO. I never found my self on the edge of the seat in any of it.

Edit: The only suspenseful moment I can think of is when you think for a moment that the Riddler knows he is Bruce Wayne. And that had nothing to do with fighting.

DallasTeleAg said:

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Aggie_Boomin 21 said:

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A big deal was made of him not "bulking up", which translates to not using anabolic steroids, and people were mostly supportive. I agree though, him looking average didn't seem to fit. You'd think he'd be able to to channel all that angst into lifting some weights.

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This constant talking point that Pattinson wasn't big enough to fight nobodies on the street, is getting tired. I like the idea that he's built more for endurance and not just a bodybuilder. I had no problem with his physique in the movie.

Image of Anderson Silva and one of Robert Pattinson.

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I mean all shots of super heroes shirtless are VERY generous. With a good pump, lighting, and camera angles you can make anyone look significantly better. Also, Anderson Silva was never known for his physique (I'm sure you knew that though). Some guys don't need it to kick ass, but Silva also couldn't have fought 7 guys at once and come out fine, so there's some physical expectations that come with that.

Easier to fight that many, though, if you have the endurance to do so and the body armor to just shrug off punches.

My point is he has enough muscle to do some damage. Also, I believe Pattinson is 6'1". I would be curious as to how much he weighed for that role, because that much muscle on that long of a frame is nothing to shrug at.

DallasTeleAg said:

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I can't think of a movie where i was on the edge of my seat, worried about the hero. At least in the first few movies. We all know the hero is going to live through the end of the movie.

I get the critique of taking so many bullets. Others have mentioned that, and I also don't like my Batman like Ironman. However, he has always been able to take a direct shot with his armor. Many Batman movies show this.

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It's been a while since I watched the Nolan batman movies, but if I remember right, Bruce Wayne got his ass kicked several times, by Liam Neeson in the first one and for damn sure Tom Hardy in the last one. I think the last Nolan movie was the worst of his, but the final fight with Tom Hardy (I forget his character's name) was still very dicey.

I just think movies (not just Batman) have gone way too far in the Bruce Lee direction. It's been taken about as far as it can go and has all been done before. To me, what makes batman special is his unlimited funds and his brain. Make him out think everybody and have gadgets and machines nobody else has. The Nolan movies did that aspect right. This movie he had the batmobile, the motorcycle and, grapple gun but the original that's all the same as before.

Reached #50 domestic on Friday at $368 m and change. Sneaking up on Spider-man 2 ($373 m), Return of the King ($378 m) and Revenge of the Sith ($380 m)

And I don't buy the emu look because he is damaged. I had a friend commit suicide in the last few years and he looked normal like everybody else.

TCTTS said:

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aTmAg said:

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And I don't buy the emu look because he is damaged. I had a friend commit suicide in the last few years and he looked normal like everybody else.

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"I can point out one, single outlier from my personal life, therefor everything you're saying is invalidated" is always such a weird position to take.

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Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain, Aaron Swartz? Any of them look like emos to you? Hell, here is a wiki page on famous suicides in this century. Look at all the pictures on the right. Do ANY of them look like emo's? Hell no. Hell not even Kurt Cobain looked like a freak as much as Patterson in this movie. Just so you know, people tend grow out of the emo stage in high school.

Well to be fair you're on one side or the other of practically every argument on this board so there's no way I make it to ALL of them.

Odd... I was thinking the same about myself.

DallasTeleAg said:

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Lol... your argument is absurd. The character of Batman is literally written as one who broods on his parents' death, and uses it as a catalyst to go out and be a masked vigilante. This is the premise we are given. The character is not your friend, or Robin Williams, or whomever else.

If you want to call the character "emo', then go for it. I think their direction with the character in this movie was fantastic. I think Pattinson did a great job in the roll. I loved everything about this movie except for about the last 30 minutes, where I would drop my score to a 7/10. 10/10 for the first 2-2.5 hours, and 7/10 for the remainder.

I understand everyone has differing opinions, but I find it funny how so many seem to either be that the movie is excellent, and others just have a list of criticisms, generally stylistic in nature.

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So we are supposed to believe that he is disciplined enough to train so hard that he is basically the best hand to hand fighter the world has ever seen and also gain the technical knowledge to somehow design/aquire his suit, a turbine +piston batmobile, one of a kind motorcycle, etc. but is too disturbed to even fake it and get a hair cut?

That is flat out stupid.

Nolan did it WAY better in making Wayne an actual functional adult who was hyper driven to do what he was doing. He showed us Wayne traveling the world to get trained and all of that. You believe that he really could do that stuff.

This movie blew all that off, made us assume he somehow got trained and all of that, and oh yeah, BTW he still came out of that as a "disturbed" emo too? It's like Matt Reeves grew up an emo himself and wanted to "represent" emos no matter how unrealistic that character trait would be in this case.

The more I think about it, the more ******ed it is.

fig96 said:

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Quote:

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. I lost count of how many people he beat up when he walked into the club early in the movie. Like the guys conveniently lined up and waited for their turn.

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Yeah, I'd expect random security guys and off duty cops to much more quickly converge on a guy who took out their doorman and his brother then quickly made his way through a darkened club. Don't know why they aren't just sitting there waiting for this exact scenario to occur.

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So you are claiming that a 1v10 fight against bouncers is realistic?

I need to say no more

CC09LawAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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And I don't buy the emu look because he is damaged. I had a friend commit suicide in the last few years and he looked normal like everybody else.

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This is absurd. You think a photo lineup of depressed people or people that ultimately commit suicide are going to have some uniform "look"?

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Where did I say that?

CC09LawAg said:

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Did you get the cliff notes for this movie or did you actually watch it?

The whole point is that this ISN'T super trained/fully baked Batman. Alfred literally says he trained him and clearly has some kind of military background or similar because of his work on the cipher.

ETA: Exactly how old are you? I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone call it "an emo". People are emo, it's used to describe people.

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Did you watch it? You claiming that this batman is a mere serviceable fighter? Are you kidding? They made him an emo Bruce Lee + Khabib + Mike Tyson level fighter. He took out crowds at people throughout the movie like they were 4 year olds.

And the notion that he could do all that with Alfred training him is even MORE of a joke.

And you are clearly desperately grasping for excuses to think that cipher = military. NSA is full of nerds, not MMA fighters.

I have no problem with the emoness or the ability to fight groups of guys. We see that all the time - Oldboy, John Wick, the Punisher, etc.

I do think making him so bulletproof is a cop out though. Bale could take or deflect a stray bullet maybe but for the most part he had to disarm and avoid guns - not walk straight into them. It's visually exciting but took the suspense out of any fight, for me.

Not that you expect Captain America or Black Widow or John Wick to get shot at any moment but technically they can, so I guess the risk is still there. This Batman used a god mode cheat so it's more like "beat up some dudes until you're ready to go to the next level."

It was very unrealistic to me that Bruce would put all of his evidence in his parents room. He knows he isn't allowed in there, and on top of that, spray paint in the house?

rhutton125 said:

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I have no problem with the emoness or the ability to fight groups of guys. We see that all the time - Oldboy, John Wick, the Punisher, etc.

I do think making him so bulletproof is a cop out though. Bale could take or deflect a stray bullet maybe but for the most part he had to disarm and avoid guns - not walk straight into them. It's visually exciting but took the suspense out of any fight, for me.

Not that you expect Captain America or Black Widow or John Wick to get shot at any moment but technically they can, so I guess the risk is still there. This Batman used a god mode cheat so it's more like "beat up some dudes until you're ready to go to the next level."

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Then there was the scene where cat woman kicked the crap out of a bunch of dudes (which itself is a joke), but then got beat by an old guy with a simple cane. It literally was like he was the boss in a video game. That merely because he was the boss, he must be a great fighter even if it's merely by swinging a cane.