*** The Batman (spoiler thread) ***

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Red Five
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In reply to Texaggie7nine • 1:55p, 3/21/22
AG
I think this was the best Batman movie that's been made. I've read a lot of Batman comics, but my connection to Batman has always been stronger through the movies and video games as compared to the comics. The Arkham games especially, and The Batman has very strong Arkham vibes. It also draws heavily on one of my favorite Batman stories, The Long Halloween (as did the Dark Knight, which I would consider 1b as far as films).

This version of Batman felt more like the Batman of the comics and video games to me. A good example was when he is investigating the mayor's murder. Everyone is talking and going over the scene and Batman is walking around silently observing things and points out that based on the body's wounds that the mayor was still alive when his thumb was cut off. In the Nolan movies, it feels like that's the kind of thing he would have discovered after the fact when reviewing 3d renderings of surveillance footage from the scene. More than any other Batman movie, this version you could see at least the beginnings of "the World's greatest detective." If you aren't a comic reader, that's an aspect of the character you may not even know about since most movies haven't really done a good job of portraying him that way.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:15p, 3/21/22
AG
$300M domestic, $600M worldwide.

Won't quite hit a billion, but considering the pandemic, the failure of Justice League, and the long length, this is a pretty big win for WB.

While I thought it might hit a billion before it released, it's hard to see this as anything but a success.
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Living Legend
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9:12p, 3/23/22
AG
This is the best Batman movie ever in my opinion.

I enjoyed all of the Nolan movies, but they felt like Christopher Nolan movies with Batman in them.

The Batman is a true comic book adaptation and one of the greatest comic book movies ever in my opinion.

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AgfromHOU
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12:20p, 3/24/22
AG
Deleted Arkham scene



This is also what the countdown on the Rata Alada website was counting down to, and solving todays riddles give you the scene. There isn't another riddle, cipher, or countdown on the site now. I wonder if this is the end of it.
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veryfuller
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In reply to AgfromHOU • 12:28p, 3/24/22
Staff
AG
I would have much preferred that scene in the movie rather than the one we got.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to veryfuller • 12:39p, 3/24/22
AG
I think it should have stayed in the movie. Thought it was pretty good.
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Lathspell
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12:56p, 3/24/22
AG
Interesting to see the various takes. I haven't seen it a second time, though I believe it would feel much shorter on a second watch.

I can somewhat agree with some of the critiques I have seen, in regards to pacing and how the story progressed. I think the first hour of this movie is the best Batman movie I have seen, and would give it a 10. The middle drops to a 9 and the ending drops to an 8. Because of this, I would still put the Dark Knight over it, as a complete ranking goes.

I have to also say, I completely disagree with this movie being political at all. It has already been mentioned, but Salena's short mention of white privilege is completely consistent with her character and is her take on things. It is not the take of the movie, as a whole. In fact, we are given a hero who is technically part of her "white priveleged" elite.

This message this movie really pushes is the corruptibility of man, as well as the thirst for power. That is an issue across history and across all political ideologies.
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Red Five
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In reply to veryfuller • 2:34p, 3/24/22
AG
veryfuller said:
I would have much preferred that scene in the movie rather than the one we got.
It's basically the same scene as when Batman confronts Riddler after he is caught though, right? Riddler says he and Batman are the same, the mask (vengence) is their true identity. Joker in this scene says Batman is obsessing over the case because he is afraid to admit the Riddler might be right and they are the same. Given that, it makes more sense to have the Riddler scene in the movie and including the Joker scene would be redundant. I can see why it was cut, and I think it was the right call. I actually liked the Joker tease that we got and felt it was enough to make the universe feel larger and more familiar.
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swimmerbabe11
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In reply to Sea Speed • 2:37p, 3/24/22
Sea Speed said:
canadiaggie said:
Can't Fight City Halloween from the soundtrack is a complete banger and the criminals watching the shadows in fear of Batman is a top ten all time Batman movie moment


If they were all scared of shadows and the natman, it was kind of odd to me that the bunch of face painted muggers didn't know who he was when he walked out of the shadows. So some criminals knew who he was and some didnt?
felt the same here.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 2:41p, 3/24/22
AG
It's Halloween, and the thug was trying to act tough.
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swimmerbabe11
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In reply to Texaggie7nine • 2:46p, 3/24/22
Texaggie7nine said:
Saw it tonight. Was good but not TDK level.

One question, 2 dudes almost came to blows in the theater over one using his phone and I missed whqt happened that made Batman freak out and go ham on that one Riddler minion who said he was vengence?

I'm not gonna lie, that sounds like it would have been more fun than the movie to me.


But, I just wanna watch the world burn.
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Texaggie7nine
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In reply to swimmerbabe11 • 2:50p, 3/24/22
Not gonna lie, the guy that was told to stop txting was the one being aggressive and he was younger and smaller than the dude behind him that told him to stop. If he started getting his ass beat, I had decided I was just going to just watch it happen and not help. Movie txters deserve whatever comes to them.
7nine
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Brian Earl Spilner
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2:52p, 3/24/22
AG
That scene is straight out of Silence of the Lambs. SO much better than the Joker scene they left in.

Reeves can do no wrong but in this case he did make a mistake, imo. Fantastic.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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3:09p, 3/24/22
AG
Joker trending #1 on Twitter.
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swimmerbabe11
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In reply to Texaggie7nine • 3:11p, 3/24/22
to someone else's point in this thread, you couldn't subtly text in this movie because the movie was so dark that pulling your phone out shone brighter than bat signal itself.

don't ask me if I tested the theory.
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TCTTS
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3:37p, 3/24/22
AG
This is such a great scene in and of itself, and I have to eat a little crow, because Keoghan's Joker looks WAY better/scarier/more disturbing here than in the glimpse at the end. I actually really like this depiction, and the way he was out of focus and then revealed at the end, etc.

The reason Reeves said he cut the scene is because he felt that the Joker basically gives away the rest of the movie here, but I don't quite know if I agree with Reeves in that regard. Sure, the Joker says Batman is the Riddler's "main course" (ends up being true) and that deep down Batman thinks all the corrupt officials deserve their deaths (he's still in "vengeance" mode, so that makes sense, but isn't really "plot" that's given away). Though, I mean, it's obvious from the jump that Batman is the key, seeing as all the Riddler's letters are addressed to Batman. That, and the Riddler *literally* tells Batman relatively early in the game that "you're a part of this too." So, in what other ways does this scene reveal anything about the rest of the Riddler's plan that we weren't already aware of/thinking? Am I missing something here? Am I interpreting the Joker's dialogue correctly?

Either way, personally, I think it's a really insightful scene on the Joker's part and reveals an interesting angle on Batman's own fears/psyche. Yeah, it might have felt a *little* repetitive when we eventually got to the Riddler interrogation scene at the same location, but that scene has a totally different energy/point, IMO, and almost feels like the next evolution of this scene, in a cool way.

It's a long shot, but I honestly hope fans are vocal enough about their love of this scene that Reeves considers reinserting for the Blu-ray/digital release. Because, personally, I think the movie would feel even more complete with it back in.
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Lathspell
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3:48p, 3/24/22
AG
Maybe my computer speakers just suck, but I caught less than half of what the Joker was even saying. I understood Batman, but not the Joker.
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p-townag
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3:50p, 3/24/22
AG
Love Matt Reeves, but man, it's gonna be hard for me to get on board with a Joker that isn't Heath Ledger. He was so good and such a great take on the character that I think he ruined it for me.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to p-townag • 3:55p, 3/24/22
AG
Guess you didn't see Joaquin's?
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p-townag
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:18p, 3/24/22
AG
I did. Also very good, but not as good. And was different enough. The above scene looks pretty good, but many parts of the voice inflection and mannerisms seemed like they had, at minimum, heavy Ledger influence.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to p-townag • 4:36p, 3/24/22
AG
Visually similar in some instances, but overall it's just a different take. Each Joker so far has played a different version, and you can't compare Heath Ledger, who is essentially the main character in a 2 hr 40 min movie, to Barry Keoghan, who has a 5 minute deleted scene and a 1 minute scene in the actual movie.

Nobody has to top Heath Ledger to be considered a good or great Joker. I think the 6 minutes we've seen of Barry Keoghan's Joker so far really fits this world and this Batman.

This Joker is very visually similar to Joker from a very disturbing graphic novel called "Joker", and acts a lot like Joker from Scott Snyder's run on Batman to me, not Ledger.

Granted, Ledger pulled from that same graphic novel a bit.
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p-townag
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4:44p, 3/24/22
AG
I'm not faulting Barry at all. I can't imagine trying to come up with something new. And you don't have to agree with me. Ledger's was just so perfect FOR ME, that's it's gonna be hard for me to buy in completely. But to each his own.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to p-townag • 5:04p, 3/24/22
AG
Nm
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AgfromHOU
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7:54p, 3/24/22
AG
This is creepy as ****

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AgfromHOU
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8:07p, 3/24/22
AG
Keoghan's response



Fun fact: he also played Nightwing in a Batman fan film awhile back

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wangus12
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In reply to AgfromHOU • 8:31p, 3/24/22
AG
AgfromHOU said:
This is creepy as ****

Definitely reminds me of some of the super creepy iterations of the Joker in the comics.
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AgfromHOU
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10:12p, 3/24/22
AG
Sorry.. last bump of the night.

Reddit noticed that Joker steals one of the paper clips from the packet that Batman passed him, presumably to use to escape later
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TCTTS
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In reply to AgfromHOU • 10:19p, 3/24/22
AG
I do admit, it was kind of weird how Batman just straight up gave him a big ass folder full of info. And the paper clip slip up seems especially out of character for Batman.
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Sea Speed
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In reply to TCTTS • 10:24p, 3/24/22
AG
Wonder if that is why they cut the scene.
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Living Legend
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10:45p, 3/24/22
AG
I love the way the Joker looks in this scene and it was a much better performance than what we saw in the movie.

I'm super pumped to see this iteration of the joker moving forward

With that said… I agree with the decision to remove this scene from the movie.

You find out everything that the movie is saying about Batman in 5 minutes. It feels redundant.

It also takes the piss out of Batman being a great detective when the Joker gives you the Riddler's motive and demographic in a few minutes, while it takes Batman nearly a week to do the same.

I get that Batman is blinded by his quest for vengeance, but would've been weird to see this scene in the movie, and then see the Batman still struggle to put it all together.
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The Porkchop Express
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10:55p, 3/24/22
AG
I'm going to be Marian Contrarian here and say the movie was better without that scene.

Reasons?

1) The Joker being that smart and that able to immediately pick out all these characteristics of the Riddler diminishes not only the Riddler's level of menace but also Dano's performance. If you leave it in there, everyone's coming away saying "What about the Joker, though?" That's a disservice to the great developed characters of the film.

2) It definitely feels like Silence of the Lambs, but Batman shouldn't be a guy who relies on a nutjob like the Joker to help him solve cases. He's been playing hardcore detective all throughout the film and now he's going to rely on literally like 90 seconds of analysis by a crazy guy? How could he possibly believe anything the Joker says if he's anything like any previous incarnation of the Joker?

3) Who runs Arkham? I know it was built by his mother's family, but who on the board of trustees decreed that the masked vigilante who showed up out of nowhere two years ago can come and go as he pleases? No way detective Gordon has that much pull at this point.

4) Batman should wind up stabbed through the eye with the paper clip if he didn't see it go missing.
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TCTTS
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 11:03p, 3/24/22
AG
All very fair/good points.

I guess I just wanted the end scene with the Joker to feel more complete, with the inclusion of this scene. But ultimately, like I said initially, overall I would have preferred neither scene/no Joker at all.
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The Porkchop Express
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In reply to TCTTS • 11:07p, 3/24/22
AG
TCTTS said:
All very fair/good points.

I guess I just wanted the end scene with the Joker to feel more complete, with the inclusion of this scene. But ultimately, like I said initially, overall I would have just preferred neither scene/no Joker at all.
Same here. That scene was really cheesy for such a dark movie. The Joker might as well have winked at the camera and said "I hope I can get out of here in a couple of years!"
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Aggie_Journalist
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 11:57p, 3/24/22
AG
helloimustbegoing said:


3) Who runs Arkham? I know it was built by his mother's family, but who on the board of trustees decreed that the masked vigilante who showed up out of nowhere two years ago can come and go as he pleases? No way detective Gordon has that much pull at this point.


I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Batman does visiting the Riddler toward the end of the movie.
Thanks and gig'em
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bangobango
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In reply to TCTTS • 2:29p, 3/25/22
AG
TCTTS said:
This is such a great scene in and of itself, and I have to eat a little crow, because Keoghan's Joker looks WAY better/scarier/more disturbing here than in the glimpse at the end. I actually really like this depiction, and the way he was out of focus and then revealed at the end, etc.

The reason Reeves said he cut the scene is because he felt that the Joker basically gives away the rest of the movie here, but I don't quite know if I agree with Reeves in that regard. Sure, the Joker says Batman is the Riddler's "main course" (ends up being true) and that deep down Batman thinks all the corrupt officials deserve their deaths (he's still in "vengeance" mode, so that makes sense, but isn't really "plot" that's given away). Though, I mean, it's obvious from the jump that Batman is the key, seeing as all the Riddler's letters are addressed to Batman. That, and the Riddler *literally* tells Batman relatively early in the game that "you're a part of this too." So, in what other ways does this scene reveal anything about the rest of the Riddler's plan that we weren't already aware of/thinking? Am I missing something here? Am I interpreting the Joker's dialogue correctly?

Either way, personally, I think it's a really insightful scene on the Joker's part and reveals an interesting angle on Batman's own fears/psyche. Yeah, it might have felt a *little* repetitive when we eventually got to the Riddler interrogation scene at the same location, but that scene has a totally different energy/point, IMO, and almost feels like the next evolution of this scene, in a cool way.

It's a long shot, but I honestly hope fans are vocal enough about their love of this scene that Reeves considers reinserting for the Blu-ray/digital release. Because, personally, I think the movie would feel even more complete with it back in.
When he says gives away the movie, I don't think he means the plot, per se, but rather the theme/realization that Batman and Riddler are almost two sides of the same coin. It's really only Batman's code not to kill that separates him at this point of the story.

I think having this scene in too early would make you start thinking about it in every scene and then the confrontation with the Riddler where he is upset that they're not buddies as well as the "I'm Vengeance" moment loses a lot of its kick.
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