*** The Batman (spoiler thread) ***
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Last: 2 yr ago by TCTTS
Saw this last night and haven't read the full thread but suspect I'll be in the minority when I say this was somewhere between good and ok, and I can't entirely put a finger on why.
Pattinson's Batman was good. Penguin was… alright. Catwoman was good. Gordon was 1-note. I really did not like the riddler, though. Batman villains usually have a spark of charisma to them, which makes them a fun rogues gallery. This guy was just troubled and deranged in a disturbing way.
+1 for any criticism of the random joker at the end.
Didn't love the cinematography on the car chase. I couldn't tell where the cars were in relation to each other half the time. And what's with Batman and Gordon just letting the penguin go after they see him cause a massive car wreck that sent a fireball into the sky and probably killed a dozen people? Hey Gordon! He probably broke a law there! It's ok to arrest him for that!
Also, for a movie that set itself up as being a super realistic take on Batman, it sure had a super unrealistic take on what a man can get up and walk away from. Batman leaps off a 70story building in a wing suit, face plants into a bridge and rolls 1-2 blocks, then stands up and walks away. That was ridiculous.
The movie also introduced stakes out of thin air that weren't properly set up earlier in the movie. Like all of a sudden there's this locked room that I presume was Bruce's parents. It wouldn't take much to show that door earlier and have Bruce say he refuses to go in there. Or at the end of the movie we learn the city is below water level - wow. That's a big one. Give us a line earlier so we know that.
How does riddler get all his information? We're told he's an accountant who at one point saw a project renewal folder on his desk, so we can assume that's how he learned of the city-wide corruption. But how does he get the voicemail Annie sent cat woman? (Or did catwoman leak that to the media?) How does he learn falcone killed the reporter?
Lastly, around theme. I liked that the lesson seemed to be that being a vigilante was inspiring other people to be their own brands of vigilante, but if that's the lesson then why does he continue as Batman at the end? Why isn't he showing up as Bruce Wayne and throwing a billion dollars at an orphanage and public housing and treatment centers? Did he not learn the lesson of his own movie that he claimed to have learned? Very poor job there
So, yeah. It's somewhere between good and ok for me. But I hope folks enjoyed it and don't let me take from that enjoyment if they did.
Pattinson's Batman was good. Penguin was… alright. Catwoman was good. Gordon was 1-note. I really did not like the riddler, though. Batman villains usually have a spark of charisma to them, which makes them a fun rogues gallery. This guy was just troubled and deranged in a disturbing way.
+1 for any criticism of the random joker at the end.
Didn't love the cinematography on the car chase. I couldn't tell where the cars were in relation to each other half the time. And what's with Batman and Gordon just letting the penguin go after they see him cause a massive car wreck that sent a fireball into the sky and probably killed a dozen people? Hey Gordon! He probably broke a law there! It's ok to arrest him for that!
Also, for a movie that set itself up as being a super realistic take on Batman, it sure had a super unrealistic take on what a man can get up and walk away from. Batman leaps off a 70story building in a wing suit, face plants into a bridge and rolls 1-2 blocks, then stands up and walks away. That was ridiculous.
The movie also introduced stakes out of thin air that weren't properly set up earlier in the movie. Like all of a sudden there's this locked room that I presume was Bruce's parents. It wouldn't take much to show that door earlier and have Bruce say he refuses to go in there. Or at the end of the movie we learn the city is below water level - wow. That's a big one. Give us a line earlier so we know that.
How does riddler get all his information? We're told he's an accountant who at one point saw a project renewal folder on his desk, so we can assume that's how he learned of the city-wide corruption. But how does he get the voicemail Annie sent cat woman? (Or did catwoman leak that to the media?) How does he learn falcone killed the reporter?
Lastly, around theme. I liked that the lesson seemed to be that being a vigilante was inspiring other people to be their own brands of vigilante, but if that's the lesson then why does he continue as Batman at the end? Why isn't he showing up as Bruce Wayne and throwing a billion dollars at an orphanage and public housing and treatment centers? Did he not learn the lesson of his own movie that he claimed to have learned? Very poor job there
So, yeah. It's somewhere between good and ok for me. But I hope folks enjoyed it and don't let me take from that enjoyment if they did.
Thanks and gig'em
dbryanc87 said:Also love the "Whoops", Whoopsie!" andboogieman said:
I live for the "super easy, barely an inconvenience" in these.
Exec: Why don't they just do X
Pitch guy: Because
Exec: That works!
Bullet proof suits are TIGHT
I avoided those videos for years because the big eyes creeped me out. Now I've watched about 150 of them in the last month.Murder Hornet said:dbryanc87 said:Also love the "Whoops", Whoopsie!" andboogieman said:
I live for the "super easy, barely an inconvenience" in these.
Exec: Why don't they just do X
Pitch guy: Because
Exec: That works!
Bullet proof suits are TIGHT
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Incredibly early Oscar nomination predictions?
In the bag:
Best Cinematography
Best Production Design
Strong contenders:
Best Supporting Actor - Paul Dano
Best Sound Design
Best Score
Dark horses:
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Make-up
There is a lot of 2022 left.
Hence the "incredibly early".
Riddler absolutely does not know Batman is Bruce Wayne. Can't believe there is a debate. It was very obvious as the conversation went on and you can see Batman's entire approach change once he realizes as much.
Agreed. Batman won't even look at him until he says "he's the only one we didn't get". His whole demeanor shifts after that. I really also don't think Riddler cares who is under the mask. He talks about the mask being who Batman is and how he wishes Batman had seen him in his.
It also makes me think a lot of the movie is challenging Bruce to actually be Bruce Wayne because he's so buried in the Batman persona.
It also makes me think a lot of the movie is challenging Bruce to actually be Bruce Wayne because he's so buried in the Batman persona.
AgfromHOU said:
Agreed. Batman won't even look at him until he says "he's the only one we didn't get". His whole demeanor shifts after that. I really also don't think Riddler cares who is under the mask. He talks about the mask being who Batman is and how he wishes Batman had seen him in his.
It also makes me think a lot of the movie is challenging Bruce to actually be Bruce Wayne because he's so buried in the Batman persona.
The movie was about The Batman changing from a force for vengeance to a force for good. He realized there was no difference between the riddler's cronies motivations and his, and he decided he must be better. They basically ignored the Bruce Wayne stuff the entire movie, I would expect that he will be dealing with that struggle of how to use his Bruce Wayne persona to further be a force for good in the following ones.
Why he have to spray paint all that stuff on the hard wood floors? He not have a bat pen??
I know that was the main point, and I only said a lot of the movie, not the point of the movie. but there were quite a few seemingly off hand things said that I took as challenging Bruce to actually be Bruce.
Alfred with meeting the accountants, Bella Real "you could be doing more for this city", etc
Alfred with meeting the accountants, Bella Real "you could be doing more for this city", etc
Vince Blake said:
Just got back. I really liked it. This movie felt like it was ripped from a Batman noir graphic novel. I loved the look and feel of this Gotham. I am really looking forward to the HBO series now. More Colin Farrell Penguin. He's great.
Only a couple of issues:
Just a personal gripe…John Turturro is hard for me to take seriously in a role like that.
I did not like the ending with the Riddler incels. Felt too much like Batmans of movies past and especially since this had been a very different Batman film up to that point.
Overall though, I really enjoyed and hope we get more Batman films like this one.
The issue i had with all those guys is that they all had bolt action hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns and were loading single rounds in to them as if they didn't even have a magazine. All of my bolt actions have q built in magazine, but some out there are single round.
Those would be the absolute last types of weapons these people would want to use in this scenario, and of they are strapped in to the overhead prepared to be mobile or whatever, why would he have broken out 4 boxes of ammunition and set them up all in the same spot. I thought they could have had those folks better prepared imo.
All I do is Nguyen said:
I'd really love for Reeves to explore the Court of Owls storyline. He set it up really nicely in The Batman. It would introduce a new villain, Talon, and a new big bad, the Court itself.
Talon keeps the ever-present discussion of animals with wings alive.
canadiaggie said:
Can't Fight City Halloween from the soundtrack is a complete banger and the criminals watching the shadows in fear of Batman is a top ten all time Batman movie moment
If they were all scared of shadows and the natman, it was kind of odd to me that the bunch of face painted muggers didn't know who he was when he walked out of the shadows. So some criminals knew who he was and some didnt?
It was Halloween. Could have been anyone.
My problem with the Court of Owls is, how many people are actually controlling Gotham? Because in this last movie we found out that everyone works for Carmine Falcone, but in the sequel you're going to tell me that isn't really true and the Court of Owls controls it instead. I like the Court of Owls in the comics because you get little bits and pieces of them. The movie will have to end with their downfall, or set up a third movie where that happens. The society that has been around for 100 years getting axed over 2.5-3 hours feels sort of hollow.
lmaobangobango said:I think a lot of people, myself included, are tired of seeing women heroes get over on their male counterparts.AgfromHOU said:cmk10 said:Well, i mean he has a batsuit.... she weighs no more than 100 pounds... She made it look effortless.bangobango said:That bothered you but not Batman getting shot point blank with rifles and not getting knocked on his rear?cmk10 said:
only issue i had was Catwoman being able to pick up the money bag while driving the motorcycle.. That would be way too heavy for her to sling over her head and onto her back...
And? It's a comic book movie and Catwoman has shown pretty large feats of ability of strength and fighting. Kind of like the previous poster who was so glad Catwoman couldn't land a punch on Batman. Why? It's not out of the realm of possibility for her character. She was able to lift him to safety, even in the full bat suit. People need to get over themselves.
It's cool when it happens sometimes, but it has happened so much the last several years that it is now unexpected when the man holds his own.
Tell me your masculinity is fragile without telling me your masculinity is fragile.
I just can't imagine actually typing out that you are tired of seeing women beat up men unrealistically in comic book movies.
Carry on.
Idk, seems all of the criminals were aware of batman and 2 years in to it you'd think they had an idea of what he looks like and ansimilar looking dude ominously walking towards them out if the shadows seems really on brand for the batman they were apparently afraid of.
Sea Speed said:
Idk, seems all of the criminals were aware of batman and 2 years in to it you'd think they had an idea of what he looks like and ansimilar looking dude ominously walking towards them out if the shadows seems really on brand for the batman they were apparently afraid of.
I saw it as the gang leader realizing it was Batman but trying to put up a brave front
A few of things...
He may not yet be *known* as "Batman" among the criminal world quite yet. Yes, the Riddler calls him that, but for all we know the Riddler coined it right then and there with his first clue (later that same night). Regardless, I get the feeling most criminals have only heard whispers of the terrifying, crime-fighting freak who dresses like a bat, not necessarily "Batman."
Either way, with that in mind, remember that it's Halloween night. The leader of the face-painting gang isn't expressing confusion as to Batman's identity, as if he's never heard of him. Rather, he asks, "Who are you supposed to be?" Aka, it's Halloween, this freak standing in front of him is wearing a costume, and the gang leader is condescendingly asking, just as a parent would ask a child trick-or-treating at their door. That, and I also got the impression that the gang leader finally/arrogantly wanted to prove his mettle against this dude he's heard so much about.
Really, though, more than anything, that exchange is about theme. Because any good script establishes the theme via the "antithesis" as early as possible in the script. Here, in brilliantly economical fashion, Batman's first scene - his first line uttered on screen, in fact - is him giving us the antithesis: "I am vengeance." This is, of course, the opposite of the theme. It's the "wrong" place his character arc must start, in order to get us to the "right" place of "I am hope/inspiration" by the end.
He may not yet be *known* as "Batman" among the criminal world quite yet. Yes, the Riddler calls him that, but for all we know the Riddler coined it right then and there with his first clue (later that same night). Regardless, I get the feeling most criminals have only heard whispers of the terrifying, crime-fighting freak who dresses like a bat, not necessarily "Batman."
Either way, with that in mind, remember that it's Halloween night. The leader of the face-painting gang isn't expressing confusion as to Batman's identity, as if he's never heard of him. Rather, he asks, "Who are you supposed to be?" Aka, it's Halloween, this freak standing in front of him is wearing a costume, and the gang leader is condescendingly asking, just as a parent would ask a child trick-or-treating at their door. That, and I also got the impression that the gang leader finally/arrogantly wanted to prove his mettle against this dude he's heard so much about.
Really, though, more than anything, that exchange is about theme. Because any good script establishes the theme via the "antithesis" as early as possible in the script. Here, in brilliantly economical fashion, Batman's first scene - his first line uttered on screen, in fact - is him giving us the antithesis: "I am vengeance." This is, of course, the opposite of the theme. It's the "wrong" place his character arc must start, in order to get us to the "right" place of "I am hope/inspiration" by the end.
I'm not trying to say that that scene ruined anything for me, I just thought it was interesting that every other criminal ran from the shadows but these guys hung around as some ominous dude walked towards them from the shadows, even after the bat signal came up.
Rocagnante said:
Going to see it for a second time just so I can hear the Batmobile fire it up again on a theater sound system. That scene and the subsequent chase were badass!
So I chose my seat poorly on the second viewing. Too far back, didn't get as much effect as first time. Very disappointed. The only logical, rational thing to do now is go drop a couple grand on some high end speakers for the house and wait for the blu ray.
i do not think for a second that the riddler knows batman is bruce wayne.
someone said he had all these comings and goings of these folks known so he would obviously know bruce's, but BW wasnt exactly coming and going often, he was a recluse. Additionally, batman didnt exactly waltz out of wayne tower in his full getup.
someone said he had all these comings and goings of these folks known so he would obviously know bruce's, but BW wasnt exactly coming and going often, he was a recluse. Additionally, batman didnt exactly waltz out of wayne tower in his full getup.
This is so good and so spot-on. Clean & pristine is the enemy of cinema…
Also strength in numbers. They had like 8-10 dudes.Sea Speed said:
I'm not trying to say that that scene ruined anything for me, I just thought it was interesting that every other criminal ran from the shadows but these guys hung around as some ominous dude walked towards them from the shadows, even after the bat signal came up.
Certainly that plays a part, but it just seemed to me like they were the only criminals in the city that didn't know who batman was or what he does. Even the apprentice thug didn't seem to react to the signal outside of his already established apprehension.
I really really wanted to love this movie but I thought it was just good, not great. There were some great moments and scenes and it was a gorgeous film, but it didn't really do that much for me. I'll compare it to dune as another 3 hour movie that felt like it was only 1.5 hours, whereas this one I was blown away that it kept going, and not in a good way. Some of that may be that it was hotter than the surface of the sun in my theater, but the movie was too long.
I think that's about exactly how I feel. It was a good movie, but it was long, and while I sometimes get annoyed at all the jokes in Marvel movies, the absence of some light hearted moments really make a difference...it made this movie ddddrrrrrraaaaaggggg...
That has happened to me twice in recent memory. Both times I made a complaint to the management, and both times I got free tickets.Quote:
Some of that may be that it was hotter than the surface of the sun in my theater
Well damn. I wish I would have thought about that. Free date night sounds amazing.
Someone else mentioned that the white privilege line took them out of the movie and I would have to agree. I didn't care for it and it did the same for me. Really kind of made me step away from the story,, so to speak. TC also made the point thst that line would be on brand for catwomans character, and I also agree with that. It is a point I had not really thought about when my entertainment goes political. I think that certainly politics is shoehorned in to a lot of stuff these days, but this wasn't necessarily that, but I think a 20 something bisexual POC sexworker(?) would absolutely say something like that, so it actually annoys me much less after reading that take from TC, so thanks for giving a different perspective. Could they have made the movie without it? Sure, but it doesn't "offend the sensibilities".
Oh and the riddler doesn't know batmans secret identity.
If the Riddler knew Batman was Bruce Wayne, he'd think Bruce Wayne was Batman's secret identity.
I clearly thinks the mask allows people to be their true selves. I don't think he cares who Batman really is.
I clearly thinks the mask allows people to be their true selves. I don't think he cares who Batman really is.
Thanks and gig'em
There's enough clues that you can argue for either case. I think it's purposely left up to the viewer.
Check out the video above for a good analysis.
Check out the video above for a good analysis.
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