*** The Batman (spoiler thread) ***

63,409 Views | 864 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TCTTS
Definitely Not A Cop
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BoydCrowder13 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Interesting, seems to be negative reactions across the board for that Joker scene. At this point I'm convinced it was a studio decision, like mentioned earlier.

I'm just crossing my fingers that we get Mr. Freeze for the sequel. I loved that they kicked it off with two villains that weren't in Nolan's trilogy, so I kinda hope that continues.

Also, is there any doubt whatsoever that Batman has the best rogues gallery in all of comics?


No doubt. Spider-Man has a pretty good one but Batman's is incredible.

We've done Bane, Scarecrow, Riddler, Penguin and Catwoman now recently and well. The whole last trilogy was Ra's Al Ghul related.

Other options for the future:

Deathstroke
Mr Freeze
Hugo Strange - this would be great. Have the whole movie take place in Arkham.
Two Face - only really got 10 min of Two face in TDK
Red Hood - would have to do Robin's first
Hush
Court of Owls
Mad Hatter




A red hood movie would be awesome, but you need two or three movies to set it up properly in my opinion.
FL_Ag1998
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Sequal = Court of Owls and introduce Jason Todd

Third movie = Red Hood plus finally completely killing off Court of Owls who weren't actually completely eradicated in the sequel

I honestly don't want to see the Joker in any of these movies.
20ag07
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-That movie was stunning.
-Pattinson is The Batman. I like can't even back up and see any of the others before.
-We were so deprived of Pattinson as Bruce Wayne, however. And unlike others, not sure he's both…thus the choice, probably.
-But my god, was that MSG/"Gotham Square Garden" scene 7 hours long? This movie was too long, and that's where the fat was. By that point I was constantly looking at my phone "when is this over?".
-I REALLY REALLY like that we are now referring to Michael Giacchino like a household name. Alias and Felicity are near and dear to my heart. Reeves/Giacchino/JJ Abrams cut their teeth there, recognizably. The fact that they are still working together, on the grandest scale, 20 years later is just fantastic.
-When we notice the score, it's a great movie.
TCTTS
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TCTTS
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This hit way close to home, btw. Down to the exact ages.
canadiaggie
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I hated the "Joker" cameo and I hope that's all it stays as in Reeves' trilogy or whatever.

Give me the Court and call it a day.

Edit to add: loved the rest of the movie. I walked out actually really unsure about it. But it's growing on me the more I think about it.
TCTTS
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helloimustbegoing said:

Sorry, man.

He said in the interrogation room that he could never get into a place like Falcone's and his weapon was his mind, but he was able to sneak into the Mayor's protected penthouse and bludgeon him to death, kill the police commissioner while that guy was working out, and sneak into the DA's car right outside the heavily fortified mafia club. Which is it? Because those first three kills seem like the work of a seriously talented physical criminal.

His interrogation room scene with Batman was unintentionally funny. I just didn't believe him as a mastermind psychopath.

Out of those three, I might give you the police commissioner. It *is* a little far-fetched that the Riddler would be able to sneak into the precinct gym, but it's also not totally out of the realm of possibility. As for the other two, literally the first shot we see after the opening binoculars POV (which was such a cool sequence) was from the roof of the mayor's penthouse, looking down at him through a cracked-open window in the roof. And the whole point of that shot was to clue us into the fact that the Riddler got in through that window. Then, with the DA's car, parked in a dark alley across the street, it didn't seem at all unbelievable that the Riddler would be able to, for instance, break in through the SUV's back door and wait for him there. In fact, no one was standing anywhere near the SUV when they showed the establishing shot of it, and it was basically pitch black behind it, where the back door was facing. Seemed super easy to me, in fact.
TCTTS
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FL_Ag1998 said:

I picked up the seeming "Hush" reference, and also immediately thought they were going to throw a serious twist at us. Glad they didn't because I loved this Riddler. Second favorite comic book movie villian behind Ledger's Joker.

I agree with Brian, the narration by Pattinson at the beginning and end was perfect. It made this a personal movie about Bruce Wayne that not even Nolan's movies did.

And I disagree that any sort of flashback was needed. That would have been out of character for this version. Again, I felt like this was almost a first-person Bruce Wayne movie and flashbacks wouldn't have felt right. And a scene at the end showing this version of (emo)Bruce suddenly doing an about face and being a public do-gooder? That would have been cheesy in the context of the vibe of this movie.

Finally, the one or two complaints about seeing some of the best scenes in the trailers? Simple solution - stop watching every trailer. For a long time now Hollywood has been putting too many of the funniest, scariest, iconic scenes into their trailers. If you know after trailer #1 or #2 that you want to see a movie, then just don't watch any more trailers after that. I stopped watching the trailers for this movie after literally the first one came out and because of that I was able to sit in awe of 90% of this movie just amazed at the beauty of the scenes unfolding before me. One of the most beautifully shot movies I've seen in a long time, and very little of it was spoiled beforehand for me.

Oh, and best Batmobile version ever.

Again, I'm not talking about actual flashbacks. Watch any Nolan movie and you'll know what I'm referring to. Keep both scenes I mentioned the exact same, with the exact same dialogue, but instead simply show a few quick shots of what's being talked about, as the dialogue plays over them, cutting back between them and the present conversation. No sound from the shots, not even two seconds each, no more than four or five shots total. Just anything that takes away from the monotony of on-screen exposition dumps, or the endless reaction shots to what felt like 60 seconds of characters listening to a voice mail, which people in my theater literally started giggling at. And none of it would have at all taken away from Bruce's POV or anything like that.

As for the press conference, it wouldn't be an about face on Bruce's part. Just something subtle, showing he's beginning to come out of his shell, intercut with all that other stuff at the end, montage style. We're not talking like a big, full, flashy, Tony Stark-like press conference scene. Just something where he's standing next to the mayor, paying off the earlier funeral scene where she asks him to help out, and maybe he has a slightly cleaner haircut over the ears or something.

In both instances, all I'm asking for is just a *little* more show-don't-tell. That's all.
TCTTS
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I assume they're talking about a *good* moan, judging by how much engagement this tweet has...

TCTTS
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It's 12:30 in the morning, I'm listening to the soundtrack, taking a short break from a work project, and getting so amped to see this thing again Saturday night. This score really is so damn great and one of my favorites in years.
TCTTS
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TyHolden said:




I mentioned this way back when the first trailer came out, but listen to *just* Cobain's guitar.

It's The Batman theme.

I find it endlessly cool that Giacchino basically took that simple little riff - from a Nirvana song - and built an entire score for a Batman movie around it.
AgfromHOU
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When Alfred was in the study, did anyone notice the statue bust? It's very similar to the one in Batman '66 that unlocks the batcave
TCTTS
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I just read a lengthy analysis of the movie that brought up a really great point and further supports the Bruce-needed-to-restart-the-Renewal-Initiate / needed-to-be-part-of-a-press-conference ideas.

Early in the movie it's established that Bruce doesn't give a sh*t about the company financials. Rather, he's obsessed with vengeance and vengeance alone. Then, towards the end, we learn that as a kid the Riddler fell through the cracks, so to speak, due to broken corporate promises, corruption, negligence, etc. So, by Bruce ignoring his company's financials, it's implied that twenty years later he's further contributing to the cycle of rich dudes/corporations failing people like the Riddler, even if Bruce isn't directly meaning to.

Reeves is clearly connecting all those dots, and making those points incredibly well, but the problem is he then just drops them in the end. When it would have been so incredibly easy to very briefly have Bruce either restarting the Renewal Initiative the right way, or starting a new version of roughly the same thing. Thereby showing that BRUCE has grown as well, and showing that he too can make a difference by following through and "caring about the financials," aka helping Gotham financially/philanthropically, doing his best to ensure there aren't any future Riddlers who fall through the cracks again.

It just seems like such an obvious/easy fix, and a natural conclusion to everything Reeves sets up, that I'm really surprised he didn't go there.
TCTTS
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Will look for that tonight during my second viewing.
TCTTS
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AgfromHOU
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I saw quite a few homages and Easter eggs the first go round. Going to try to keep an eye out for more in the second viewing as well.
Quad Dog
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When we first saw the orphanage I immediately thought we'd see Bruce buy it and fix it up as Wayne Manor/orphanage.
Interesting that this movie didn't have a Wayne Manor, they were just living in Wayne Tower.
AgfromHOU
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The prequel novel says that the Waynes donated the manor to become the orphanage

However, I do like the idea of the Waynes living in a brownstone or tower in the city. "Is Wayne Manor even in Gotham city limits?" - Harvey Dent in TDK
Quad Dog
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Thinking about it, this movie played with time. I wonder if it was intentional to make it more like a comic book.
Biggest example was the car wreck/jump. First we see the wreck and jump from Batman's perspective, then it rewinds time like 30 seconds to show the same wreck and jump from the Penguin's perspective. A lot of other movies would have shown the same event once and quickly cut back and forth between the two perspectives. This movie did it differently.

Another one was Alfred opening the letter and making it seem like he was avoiding the phone call, but really the letter opening was the past. Very much like Watchman. "I did it 30 minutes ago."

I feel like there was one or two more where Batman was realizing something the Riddler had already done, but they made it seem like the realization and the action were at the same time, even though the times didn't match up.
AgfromHOU
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The biggest reason I LOVED this movie was that it felt like a comic book to me

How Batman was introduced, the monologues, the action, the scenes you mentioned, Batman being a force of nature, the disappearing act he started doing halfway through the movie, the adrenaline (maybe Venom) shot at the end to protect Catwoman, the cops not removing his mask until he came to, etc.
schmidthead
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Just spitballing here but is it possible they avoided something like that because it was already done by Black Panther? (Which doesn't explain the Joker reveal but it seems like most people did not like that scene)
TCTTS
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I'll be honest, I've forgotten 90% of Black Panther and have zero memory of how it ended. I think there was a basketball court or something?
FL_Ag1998
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TCTTS said:

FL_Ag1998 said:

I picked up the seeming "Hush" reference, and also immediately thought they were going to throw a serious twist at us. Glad they didn't because I loved this Riddler. Second favorite comic book movie villian behind Ledger's Joker.

I agree with Brian, the narration by Pattinson at the beginning and end was perfect. It made this a personal movie about Bruce Wayne that not even Nolan's movies did.

And I disagree that any sort of flashback was needed. That would have been out of character for this version. Again, I felt like this was almost a first-person Bruce Wayne movie and flashbacks wouldn't have felt right. And a scene at the end showing this version of (emo)Bruce suddenly doing an about face and being a public do-gooder? That would have been cheesy in the context of the vibe of this movie.

Finally, the one or two complaints about seeing some of the best scenes in the trailers? Simple solution - stop watching every trailer. For a long time now Hollywood has been putting too many of the funniest, scariest, iconic scenes into their trailers. If you know after trailer #1 or #2 that you want to see a movie, then just don't watch any more trailers after that. I stopped watching the trailers for this movie after literally the first one came out and because of that I was able to sit in awe of 90% of this movie just amazed at the beauty of the scenes unfolding before me. One of the most beautifully shot movies I've seen in a long time, and very little of it was spoiled beforehand for me.

Oh, and best Batmobile version ever.

Again, I'm not talking about actual flashbacks. Watch any Nolan movie and you'll know what I'm referring to. Keep both scenes I mentioned the exact same, with the exact same dialogue, but instead simply show a few quick shots of what's being talked about, as the dialogue plays over them, cutting back between them and the present conversation. No sound from the shots, not even two seconds each, no more than four or five shots total. Just anything that takes away from the monotony of on-screen exposition dumps, or the endless reaction shots to what felt like 60 seconds of characters listening to a voice mail, which people in my theater literally started giggling at. And none of it would have at all taken away from Bruce's POV or anything like that.

As for the press conference, it wouldn't be an about face on Bruce's part. Just something subtle, showing he's beginning to come out of his shell, intercut with all that other stuff at the end, montage style. We're not talking like a big, full, flashy, Tony Stark-like press conference scene. Just something where he's standing next to the mayor, paying off the earlier funeral scene where she asks him to help out, and maybe he has a slightly cleaner haircut over the ears or something.

In both instances, all I'm asking for is just a *little* more show-don't-tell. That's all.


I get what you're saying in both instances, and I wouldn't have been put off by either if the movie went that way instead of what it did. Just saying that I had no gripes with the actual way the movie went and felt like it "fit" better. To each his own.

Last night I was also on a high from just seeing it. First movie in a while that I left the theater legit awed and amped at what I had just seen.

I had no problem with the length either. It was long and I could feel it was long while watching it, but I wasn't bored for a second and legit didn't want it to end. If that makes sense.

On a side note, it also made me feel old and realize my almost 13 yr old son has matured, because he was enthralled for the entire 3 hrs and for the first time in his life he wanted to discuss and analyze the movie afterwards (in a way he didn't even do with Endgame). Now I can "talk movies" with him and stop annoying Texags with so many of my thoughts on movies, lol.
Quad Dog
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On the court he says he is buying a building to be an outreach center. He also announces at the UN that Wakanda will be playing a larger role in the world. It shows growth in his character, something we want for Batman.
FL_Ag1998
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AgfromHOU said:

The biggest reason I LOVED this movie was that it felt like a comic book to me

How Batman was introduced, the monologues, the action, the scenes you mentioned, Batman being a force of nature, the disappearing act he started doing halfway through the movie, the adrenaline (maybe Venom) shot at the end to protect Catwoman, the cops not removing his mask until he came to, etc.


Bingo, couldn't have said it any better. This felt like a Batman comic. Snyder tried and got the "look" of a comic book, but this got everything of a comic....look, feel, tone, etc.
20ag07
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Quote:

Reeves is clearly connecting all those dots, and making those points incredibly well, but the problem is he then just drops them in the end. When it would have been so incredibly easy to very briefly have Bruce either restarting the Renewal Initiative the right way, or starting a new version of roughly the same thing. Thereby showing that BRUCE has grown as well, and showing that he too can make a difference by following through and "caring about the financials," aka helping Gotham financially/philanthropically, doing his best to ensure there aren't any future Riddlers who fall through the cracks again.

It just seems like such an obvious/easy fix, and a natural conclusion to everything Reeves sets up, that I'm really surprised he didn't go there.
But again, this movie is absolutely DISINTERESTED in showing us Bruce Wayne, in a way no Batman ever has been before.

It's part of the character- he had to live both lives.
AgfromHOU
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It's called The Batman, not The Bruce Wayne
20ag07
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But it's a core part of the character.

I do think that charisma has lead to all the casting choices before. And I think Pattinson played the Batman role better than all have before.

But every shot of Bruce Wayne we were shown was VERY "emo". Which just feels like working around him. We never saw that one part that's core to the character.
veryfuller
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Well if you've seen Pattinson in Tenet or The Devil All the Time, then you know he is capable of playing suave Bruce Wayne. I think emo Bruce was a story choice, not working around an actors limitations.
AgfromHOU
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Trust me, I very much understand Batman as a character. It was a joke. Sheesh.

I like seeing that Bruce has to learn to be Bruce Wayne, billionaire CEO and philanthropist. This Bruce was a recluse and is in the very early days of Batman. I didn't like that Bale's Bruce suddenly knew how to play both sides of his psyche with no issues. I would bet that Pattinson's Bruce learns to become Bruce Wayne. It has only been one movie, and one that Bruce was not really that necessary to the story. With Gotham needing to rebuild you'll see more Bruce because Batman can't help with infrastructure and rebuilding the city.
CC09LawAg
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AgfromHOU said:

Trust me, I very much understand Batman as a character. It was a joke. Sheesh.

I like seeing that Bruce has to learn to be Bruce Wayne, billionaire CEO and philanthropist. This Bruce was a recluse and is in the very early days of Batman. I didn't like that Bale's Bruce suddenly knew how to play both sides of his psyche with no issues. I would bet that Pattinson's Bruce learns to become Bruce Wayne. It has only been one movie, and one that Bruce was not really that necessary to the story. With Gotham needing to rebuild you'll see more Bruce because Batman can't help with infrastructure and rebuilding the city.


Yes; my take, as the Riddler mentioned, is the cowl let's Bruce be who he really is, and that's Batman. This early into the journey, there really isn't a Bruce Wayne. That's the personality and persona he has to learn and explore. It literally didn't exist yet in this movie - all he was was Batman doling out vengeance.
20ag07
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Was that MSG act waaaayyyy too long, or is that just me?
Cave Johnson, CEO
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20ag07 said:

Was that MSG act waaaayyyy too long, or is that just me?
Uhh sir, it was GSG. Also, I didn't mind it going long but it definitely gave me Return of the King vibes where I thought it was ending just for there to be more after.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I've loved Giacchino ever since he scored LOST, but he's quickly reaching Zimmer / Shore territory.
Brian Earl Spilner
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But isn't that the whole point? He's let the Batman persona take over his entire life. He hasn't learned how to balance his life between Bruce and Batman yet.

This was very much the intent of his first scene with Alfred.
 
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