*** The Batman (spoiler thread) ***

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In reply to BoydCrowder13 • 4:11p, 3/4/22
AG
BoydCrowder13 said:
AgfromHOU said:
The people she was referring to were indeed white, and did indeed have privilege, and were indeed *******s, so…..


They were indeed all those things. But people don't talk like that.

Didn't hurt my opinion of the movie. Just bad dialogue in that moment.

Do you live under a rock? A certain brand of liberal talks like that all the time, especially where I live, on TV, in the news, etc. The line was on-the-nose for sure, but just because a character says something, it doesn't mean the movie endorses it. This version of Selina Kyle would *totally* say something like that, which is why I was fine with it. Matt Reeves is a "privileged" white guy himself, and doesn't seem super political, so I just chalked it up to writing to the perspective of that particular character.
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In reply to Sex Panther • 4:11p, 3/4/22
AG
Awesome breakdown. Wasn't aware of most of that.
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 4:12p, 3/4/22
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Here's something I know TC will love -- currently listening to a track on the score called...

Highway to the Anger Zone

Hell yeah.

Though, I do have a question about the chase itself, because I feel like I missed a couple shots setting up the dynamic.

Just so I have it straight…

- Penguin & co are shooting at Gordon.
- Penguin sees/hears the Batmobile rev up (which was indeed awesome)
- Penguin then gets in his car and tries to outrun the Batmobile?

It's the last part that was the slightest bit confusing to me. If Batman's already in his car, why didn't Penguin just go back inside or hide? Was Batman going to run them over, so Penguin just decided to get in his car and flee/try to outrun him? Again, it's a tiny thing, and I got the overall gist, I just didn't know 100% what the Penguin was trying to do in that moment, or if he was trying to escape with more money or what.
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sburg2007
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4:13p, 3/4/22
My gripe… I just sat through a three hour movie and have to piss like a race horse. Can we get to post credit scene already?!
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TCTTS
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In reply to sburg2007 • 4:13p, 3/4/22
AG
It's literally just text and is like four seconds long.
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Quad Dog
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4:14p, 3/4/22
AG
I really liked it. Random thoughts:

  • As mentioned above, this is a great Halloween movie.
  • I loved the intro showing Gotham from the perspective of the criminals with Batman hiding in every shadow. How the fear of Batman is just as much a deterrent as Batman himself.
  • Great use of their one PG-13 F-Bomb: "Happy **** Halloween"
  • Good Bat one-liner: "You'll get blood in your suit" "Yours or mine?"
  • Another good one: "I did pull my punch"
  • One thins that has helped Marvel's success is they make genre movies that star superheroes. MCU makes a heist movie and it stars Ant-Man. The make a spy movie and it stars Captain America. This movie felt the most like that. They made a noir Fincher style detective movie and it stars Batman.
  • When they brought Batman into GCPD, how many uniformed cops where there? The streets must have been empty of cops.
  • Coolest Batmobile intro ever?
  • Who is the Wayne's interior decorator? Dracula?
  • Wish this thing could be rated R. Do you think there's an R cut of this movie out there that we might see on HBO or DVD one day?
  • How many times did Batman get shot, like 50? Felt like it was too much, even with amour that has to hurt and have some impact. I know he looked to be dying after the shotgun hit, but he injected one thing then got much better and kept on fighting and helping out.
  • Everybody loves a hallway fight! Where does this one in the dark lit by guns rate against Daredevil, Vader, and the Raid?
  • Is this the first Batman movie where he doesn't reveal his identity to someone? So refreshing.
  • The end credits piano version of the Batman theme was amazing.
  • Lets just list all the things that have wings involved in Batman, maybe we'll get the right one eventually.
  • His ending voice over on top of the stadium talked about how he had become a symbol and that he needed to become more. It felt a little hollow that they didn't show any of that change. They could have shown him as Bruce Wayne restarting the Renewal Initiative or something.
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:21p, 3/4/22
AG
TCTTS said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Here's something I know TC will love -- currently listening to a track on the score called...

Highway to the Anger Zone

Hell yeah.

Though, I do have a question about the chase itself, because I feel like I missed a couple shots setting up the dynamic.

Just so I have it straight…

- Penguin & co are shooting at Gordon.
- Penguin sees/hears the Batmobile rev up (which was indeed awesome)
- Penguin then gets in his car and tries to outrun the Batmobile?

It's the last part that was the slightest bit confusing to me. If Batman's already in his car, why didn't Penguin just go back inside or hide? Was Batman going to run them over, so Penguin just decided to get in his car and flee/try to outrun him? Again, it's a tiny thing, and I got the overall gist, I just didn't know 100% what the Penguin was trying to do in that moment, or if he was trying to escape with more money or what.
Why did the Batman even chase the Penguin if he was going to run? The drugs, money, goons, crooked cop, and a dead body are all back at the warehouse. He knocks out the Penguin's car, slowly walks up, appears upside down (like a rat with wings), captures him and learns he wasn't the informant. So chasing The Penguin in his cool car leads to nothing. Don't get me wrong it was a great sequence, but even in the moment I was asking "Why is he chasing him? You know where the Penguin hangs out and you've broken in like 3 times already, so go pick him up anytime you want."
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to Sex Panther • 4:22p, 3/4/22
AG
That would have been a really fun twist
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MrPlow2010
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4:25p, 3/4/22
AG


Sounds like Joker was originally supposed to have another scene and we'll get to see it someday.
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In reply to Quad Dog • 4:28p, 3/4/22
AG
Quad Dog said:
I really liked it. Random thoughts:

  • As mentioned above, this is a great Halloween movie.
  • I loved the intro showing Gotham from the perspective of the criminals with Batman hiding in every shadow. How the fear of Batman is just as much a deterrent as Batman himself.
  • Great use of their one PG-13 F-Bomb: "Happy **** Halloween"
  • Good Bat one-liner: "You'll get blood in your suit" "Yours or mine?"
  • Another good one: "I did pull my punch"
  • One thins that has helped Marvel's success is they make genre movies that star superheroes. MCU makes a heist movie and it stars Ant-Man. The make a spy movie and it stars Captain America. This movie felt the most like that. They made a noir Fincher style detective movie and it stars Batman.
  • When they brought Batman into GCPD, how many uniformed cops where there? The streets must have been empty of cops.

    • Noticed that too, but man, I loved the look of the cops in this movie. Such a cool '70s vibe.
  • Coolest Batmobile intro ever?
  • Who is the Wayne's interior decorator? Dracula?

    • This was the ONE design choice I thought was a bit much. It was hard to believe that a relatively normal-seeming human family ever lived there. It was more Tim Burton than even Tim Burton. Need to see it again, though, to really soak it in.
  • Wish this thing could be rated R. Do you think there's an R cut of this movie out there that we might see on HBO or DVD one day?

    • I do wish there had been a bit more blood (or any blood at all). And when the Penguin yelled "this freakin' guy" (or something along those lines) instead of "f/cking guy," I kind of winced. Seems like it'd be pretty easy to get this back to an R rating, if there ever was one, but I seriously doubt they ever do.
  • How many times did Batman get shot, like 50? Felt like it was too much, even with amour that has to hurt and have some impact. I know he looked to be dying after the shotgun hit, but he injected one thing then got much better and kept on fighting and helping out.

    • Yeah, it kind of got ridiculous how none of the bullets ever hit him in the face. That said, it's a Batman movie, so I didn't really care.
  • Everybody loves a hallway fight! Where does this one in the dark lit by guns rate against Daredevil, Vader, and the Raid?
  • Is this the first Batman movie where he doesn't reveal his identity to someone? So refreshing.
  • The end credits piano version of the Batman theme was amazing.
  • Lets just list all the things that have wings involved in Batman, maybe we'll get the right one eventually.

    • Hahaha. I kind of couldn't believe they took this bit as far as they did.
  • His ending voice over on top of the stadium talked about how he had become a symbol and that he needed to become more. It felt a little hollow that they didn't show any of that change. They could have shown him a Bruce Wayne restarting the Renewal Initiative or something.

    • THIS. Exactly what I was trying to say. SHOW us that change more explicitly.
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TCTTS
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:32p, 3/4/22
AG
I've tried to bold my responses three times now and it won't let me. Weird.
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In reply to Quad Dog • 4:33p, 3/4/22
AG
Quad Dog said:
TCTTS said:
Brian Earl Spilner said:
Here's something I know TC will love -- currently listening to a track on the score called...

Highway to the Anger Zone

Hell yeah.

Though, I do have a question about the chase itself, because I feel like I missed a couple shots setting up the dynamic.

Just so I have it straight…

- Penguin & co are shooting at Gordon.
- Penguin sees/hears the Batmobile rev up (which was indeed awesome)
- Penguin then gets in his car and tries to outrun the Batmobile?

It's the last part that was the slightest bit confusing to me. If Batman's already in his car, why didn't Penguin just go back inside or hide? Was Batman going to run them over, so Penguin just decided to get in his car and flee/try to outrun him? Again, it's a tiny thing, and I got the overall gist, I just didn't know 100% what the Penguin was trying to do in that moment, or if he was trying to escape with more money or what.
Why did the Batman even chase the Penguin if he was going to run? The drugs, money, goons, crooked cop, and a dead body are all back at the warehouse. He knocks out the Penguin's car, slowly walks up, appears upside down (like a rat with wings), captures him and learns he wasn't the informant. So chasing The Penguin in his cool car leads to nothing. Don't get me wrong it was a great sequence, but even in the moment I was asking "Why is he chasing him? You know where the Penguin hangs out and you've broken in like 3 times already, so go pick him up anytime you want."

Glad I'm not the only one confused then. Like you said, it was an incredible sequence. I just didn't quit get the dynamic or the "why, exactly" of it all.
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TCTTS
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In reply to MrPlow2010 • 4:45p, 3/4/22
AG
MrPlow2010 said:


Sounds like Joker was originally supposed to have another scene and we'll get to see it someday.

Hmmm. That's super interesting and a great find. Thanks for posting.

I still don't agree with the decision, but at least Reeves is incredibly forthcoming with his explanation.

I'm assuming we'll get to see that other scene as an extra with the Blu-ray/digital release, since Reeves straight up says it's coming. The HBO Max release is expected April 19, which is another option, and then the Blu-ray/digital release should be late May/early June-ish.

But yeah, that other scene might really help the final Joker scene to not feel so random, and I'm super curious to see it now. Would be so awesome if we actually get like a three-and-a-half-hour, R-rated cut at some point, with that scene and others back in.
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TCTTS • 4:47p, 3/4/22
AG
Release the Reeves cut!
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Sex Panther
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In reply to Quad Dog • 5:00p, 3/4/22
AG
Quad Dog said:
Release the Reeves cut!


IN BLACK AND WHITE... THAT WAY YOU KNOW ITS GOOD
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BoydCrowder13
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In reply to TCTTS • 5:33p, 3/4/22
TCTTS said:
BoydCrowder13 said:
AgfromHOU said:
The people she was referring to were indeed white, and did indeed have privilege, and were indeed *******s, so…..


They were indeed all those things. But people don't talk like that.

Didn't hurt my opinion of the movie. Just bad dialogue in that moment.

Do you live under a rock? A certain brand of liberal talks like that all the time, especially where I live, on TV, in the news, etc. The line was on-the-nose for sure, but just because a character says something, it doesn't mean the movie is endorsing it. This version of Selina Kyle would *totally* say something like that, which is why I was fine with it. Matt Reeves is a "privileged" white guy himself, and doesn't seem super political, so I just chalked it up to writing to the perspective of that particular character.


Fair enough. Normal in California. In Texas, it sounded like a hilarious caricature of some SJW chick.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:16p, 3/4/22
AG
To me, that change came when he cut the exposed wire at the end and fell into the water, in what could've easily been a sacrifice of his life. And then pulling everyone out of the wreckage.

That was the first time we see him helping others and not just beating up bad guys.
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sburg2007
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In reply to TCTTS • 6:52p, 3/4/22
Yea, I regretted staying. Didn't pee my pants though!
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TCTTS
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 6:53p, 3/4/22
AG
Agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that showing him *also* restart the Renewal initiative or whatever would have underlined that change with additional action, rather than underline it with a cheap voice over.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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7:01p, 3/4/22
AG
So when is the Batmobile solo movie?
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 7:17p, 3/4/22
AG
Have you not heard of Batwheels?

It's an animated car show for Cartoon Network and HBO Max.

No, I am not joking.

https://deadline.com/2020/10/batwheels-series-cartoon-network-hbo-max-warner-bros-animation-1234592169/amp/
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:21p, 3/4/22
AG
TCTTS said:
Agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that showing him *also* restart the Renewal initiative or whatever would have underlined that change with additional action, rather than underline it with a cheap voice over.

Literally just 15 seconds of Bruce Wayne walking into the Mayor's office or giving a press conference. Especially since he was avoiding being Bruce the whole movie.
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to Quad Dog • 7:23p, 3/4/22
AG
Lol when I came to read your reply, I saw a clip for the movie showing on the ads at the bottom.

It alternated quick 1 second shots of him as Batman, then Bruce, then Batman, then Bruce, then Batman, then Bruce, then the title card
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TCTTS
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In reply to Quad Dog • 7:39p, 3/4/22
AG
Quad Dog said:
TCTTS said:
Agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that showing him *also* restart the Renewal initiative or whatever would have underlined that change with additional action, rather than underline it with a cheap voice over.

Literally just 15 seconds of Bruce Wayne walking into the Mayor's office or giving a press conference. Especially since he was avoiding being Bruce the whole movie.

A press conference would have been PERFECT. Then you could have even snuck in something about "hope" in a more organic way, as his press conference voice over plays over various shots of whatever. I was also really hoping we'd get a more clean-cut Bruce by film's end, one that shows and solidifies he's evolved past emo grunge Bruce. So a simple scene like that would have done so much heavy lifting.
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TCTTS • 7:50p, 3/4/22
AG
TCTTS said:
Quad Dog said:
TCTTS said:
Agreed. I guess what I'm trying to say is that showing him *also* restart the Renewal initiative or whatever would have underlined that change with additional action, rather than underline it with a cheap voice over.

Literally just 15 seconds of Bruce Wayne walking into the Mayor's office or giving a press conference. Especially since he was avoiding being Bruce the whole movie.

A press conference would have been PERFECT. Then you could have even snuck in something about "hope" in a more organic way, as his press conference voice over plays over various shots of whatever. I was also really hoping we'd get a more clean-cut Bruce by film's end, one that shows and solidifies he's evolved past emo grunge Bruce. So a simple scene like that would have done so much heavy lifting.

The mayor got a press conference at the end he could of just been standing behind her prominently.

Till you said it I didn't even think of emo Bruce. You're right, he felt like something out of a 90s movie. Long hair, pale, skinny, moody, avoiding the sun, jamming to Nirvana
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AgfromHOU
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In reply to Sex Panther • 8:26p, 3/4/22
AG
Thought you'd enjoy this. (Second clip)



I legit think Hush would be an amazing villain in this universe, and it's my second favorite Batman story of all time (behind Court of Owls, the first comic I ever read).

I think I've read everything from 1939-1956 and 1987-2021 of Batman and Detective Comics, to give context to how highly I think of Hush.
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AgfromHOU
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9:10p, 3/4/22
AG
From the rata alada website. Hints of Two Face.

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TyHolden
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10:34p, 3/4/22
AG

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Brian Earl Spilner
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10:59p, 3/4/22
AG
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FL_Ag1998
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11:08p, 3/4/22
AG
I picked up the seeming "Hush" reference, and also immediately thought they were going to throw a serious twist at us. Glad they didn't because I loved this Riddler. Second favorite comic book movie villian behind Ledger's Joker.

I agree with Brian, the narration by Pattinson at the beginning and end was perfect. It made this a personal movie about Bruce Wayne that not even Nolan's movies did.

And I disagree that any sort of flashback was needed. That would have been out of character for this version. Again, I felt like this was almost a first-person Bruce Wayne movie and flashbacks wouldn't have felt right. And a scene at the end showing this version of (emo)Bruce suddenly doing an about face and being a public do-gooder? That would have been cheesy in the context of the vibe of this movie.

Finally, the one or two complaints about seeing some of the best scenes in the trailers? Simple solution - stop watching every trailer. For a long time now Hollywood has been putting too many of the funniest, scariest, iconic scenes into their trailers. If you know after trailer #1 or #2 that you want to see a movie, then just don't watch any more trailers after that. I stopped watching the trailers for this movie after literally the first one came out and because of that I was able to sit in awe of 90% of this movie just amazed at the beauty of the scenes unfolding before me. One of the most beautifully shot movies I've seen in a long time, and very little of it was spoiled beforehand for me.

Oh, and best Batmobile version ever.
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The Porkchop Express
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12:03a, 3/5/22
AG
So, here goes. That movie was like the law of diminishing returns for me. I loved the beginning and was still into at the middle and then sort of just wanted it to be over.

A lot of it seemed like a redux of the Dark Knight. Batman beating guys up in a dance club on a walkway to get to the bad guy. The main villain capturing people alive and broadcasting the video of him taunting the public and the victim simultaneously, Corruption going to the very top, and everyone seeming surprised by it. The main villain setting up fantastically elaborate assassinations of public figures. A bunch of fanatical followers opening fire in a public place, the massively complex plan that is only unleashed after the super villain allows himself to get caught.

This is probably the most spoiler-free I've gone into a superhero movie in a decade. Just too busy with other stuff and wasn't expecting the chance to see this one so early in its run. Other than who was playing what character, I didn't know a single thing that happened outside of the non-spoiler posts.

Thought Pattison was great as young Batman, but felt I barely saw him as Bruce Wayne.

Best parts of the movie for me were Farrell, Turturro, and Kravitz. She was super sexy and sympathetic. Farrell was unbelievable as the Penguin, although why they needed to hire him to put on the fat suit and do the accent is still confusing. I thought Turturro was unreal. Made me feel bad for him being in all the damn Transformer movies. I thought the movie peaked when he got arrested and Farrell outed him as the rat.

I am sure I am in an extreme minority, but I didn't like Dano as the Riddler. His first scene killing the Mayor was scary and violent but after that it just lost me. I didn't find him intimidating and he just seemed to be yelling a lot.

Soundtrack was great. The menace of the main theme is instantly recognizable and hypnotic.

Underused/misused Jeffery Wright. He seemed really dumb compared to Batman. Was just Mr. Exposition a lot of the time.

I liked the first Batman/Catwoman fight scene. He was so much better a fighter than she is. She didn't land a single hit, the way it should be.


Was way too long. The flood at the end made no sense. The city full of skyscrapers is flooding so let's all go hide in the arena built under street level? Did the stairs at all those tall buildings not work? Female mayor was annoying. Unsure how she didn't die, looked like she got plugged in the head.

Definitely put me in the case of Riddler knowing the Wayne/Batman connection. I thought he didn't say it was him because he loved the exclusivity of knowing something most people don't.


Rank it well below all three of Nolan's movies.

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TyHolden
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 12:06a, 3/5/22
AG
Quote:
Was way too long. The flood at the end made no sense. The city full of skyscrapers is flooding so let's all go hide in the arena built under street level? Did the stairs at all those tall buildings not work? Female mayor was annoying. Unsure how she didn't die, looked like she got plugged in the head.

agree with all of this - i didn't read much before watching
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InternetFan02
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12:07a, 3/5/22
AG
My teenagers insist it was Two Face and only a boomer like me would assume it's the Joker
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Brian Earl Spilner
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In reply to The Porkchop Express • 12:09a, 3/5/22
AG
Quote:
I am sure I am in an extreme minority, but I didn't like Dano as the Riddler.



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The Porkchop Express
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12:20a, 3/5/22
AG
Sorry, man.

He said in the interrogation room that he could never get into a place like Falcone's and his weapon was his mind, but he was able to sneak into the Mayor's protected penthouse and bludgeon him to death, kill the police commissioner while that guy was working out, and sneak into the DA's car right outside the heavily fortified mafia club. Which is it? Because those first three kills seem like the work of a seriously talented physical criminal.

His interrogation room scene with Batman was unintentionally funny. I just didn't believe him as a mastermind psychopath.

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