I am surprised with how much of a lil beetch Scottie Pippen was. Guess I was too young to see or remember the stuff he pulled.
ESPN's Michael Jordan Doc moved up to April
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Last: 4 yr ago by Petrino1
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Toni Kukoc really does seem like the coolest dude.
Maybe I somehow missed it, but did they not talk about Pippen throwing the chair in '95?
Bruce Almighty said:Junkhead said:MuckRaker96 said:
It always strikes me as weird that 7 ft 1 patrick ewing was the least tough guy in the bulls starting 5.
When was Ewing in the Bulls starting 5?
Considering Muck has an inability to ever post anything that's even remotely serious, my guess is it's some kind of Bill Cartwright joke that nobody gets.
I meant to type Knicks but typed bulls instead. I realize it is the first typo ever made on texags and i apologize.
Hey Bruce! Kindly check out my posts on losing our family golden retriever, having our children born 16 weeks early and having to spend the first 5 months of their lives in a hospital, or the time i got run over by an 18 wheeler and got my leg amputated. Any of those sound like remotely serious posts to you? You dont know jack **** about me so why dont you shut the **** up?
ac04 said:
lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.
The part where Jordan is laughing about Gary Peyton's interview is so damn funny. Man, that **** had me rolling during the show.toucan82 said:
I like the music played during The Last Dance and the parts where MJ talks **** about people
Let me know when ESPN launches a 10 part series on LeBron and how great those Cavs/Heat/Cavs/Lakers teams were and how many people actually tune in and GAS.
Bruce Almighty said:FaceMask said:ac04 said:
lebron's 2011 finals disqualify him from GOAT talk. jordan never would have let that happen.
Jordan's Bulls team during the 6 year Championship stretch NEVER lost more than 2 games in a row. Let that sink in. He hated losing.
This is just flat out wrong.
How so? "Between December 1990 and June 1998] MJ in his championship runsignoring the first retirement and half-season comebacknever lost three games in a row with the Chicago Bulls."
During the SIX CHAMPIONSHIPS...no one has come close.
If you're a Rockets' fan, the pinnacle of Jerry Krause's career came with this move.
February 11, 1987: Traded Earl Cureton to the Los Angeles Clippers for a 1989 2nd round draft pick (Chucky Brown was later selected).
February 11, 1987: Traded Earl Cureton to the Los Angeles Clippers for a 1989 2nd round draft pick (Chucky Brown was later selected).
End of E7 - that was kind of weird/random thing for MJ to get broken up about, no?
Uhhhhhh
Brian Earl Spilner said:
End of E7 - that was kind of weird/random thing for MJ to get broken up about, no?
I didn't think so. That drive to always win, to dominate his opponents, is the absolute essence of who he is. And then he gets knocked for not being a nice guy. No he isn't a nice guy. But he made everyone around him better, by demanding a hell of a lot from them, and everything from himself. I imagine some of his emotion, 20 years later, may well be the realization that it cost him a lot as well.
Maybe. I can only guess that the years and years worth of all the criticism, the work he put in, etc...just kind of came bubbling all up right then.
Everything I read seemed to indicate how brutal Jordan would ride his teammates and how when we all saw the stuff he said to Scotty Burrell it would paint a different picture of Mike.
Then Episode 7 and 8 came and all I heard was relatively normal trash talking in a standard basketball game.
I want to 1st say this is a very very good series and I know the director is out there making a big deal about how Jordan didn't edit anything or give any notes. BUT, this was the doc that was supposed to show us how brutal Mike was in the background and bring is the surrealness of how famous he was through never before accessed footage. That's not really been the experience thus far in my opinion at least. It has certainly touched on a lot of that stuff thru really good testimonials and interviews... I guess I just expected the footage to back all of that stuff up better than it really has, especially over 8 hours or whatever the non commercial running time is. Maybe I just went in with high expectations than a documentary can really deliver.
Again, great series, just we are 80% thru and it has been a much different experience than I was expecting. Not better or worse... just different than advertised.
Then Episode 7 and 8 came and all I heard was relatively normal trash talking in a standard basketball game.
I want to 1st say this is a very very good series and I know the director is out there making a big deal about how Jordan didn't edit anything or give any notes. BUT, this was the doc that was supposed to show us how brutal Mike was in the background and bring is the surrealness of how famous he was through never before accessed footage. That's not really been the experience thus far in my opinion at least. It has certainly touched on a lot of that stuff thru really good testimonials and interviews... I guess I just expected the footage to back all of that stuff up better than it really has, especially over 8 hours or whatever the non commercial running time is. Maybe I just went in with high expectations than a documentary can really deliver.
Again, great series, just we are 80% thru and it has been a much different experience than I was expecting. Not better or worse... just different than advertised.
jenn96 said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
End of E7 - that was kind of weird/random thing for MJ to get broken up about, no?
I didn't think so. That drive to always win, to dominate his opponents, is the absolute essence of who he is. And then he gets knocked for not being a nice guy. No he isn't a nice guy. But he made everyone around him better, by demanding a hell of a lot from them, and everything from himself. I imagine some of his emotion, 20 years later, may well be the realization that it cost him a lot as well.
I agree. MJ's legacy has always meant everything to him. I think things like his Hall of Fame speech where he was heavily criticized for being somewhat petty have weighed on him. This was his moment to explain himself. And he's right, he didn't have to. He doesn't owe anyone anything. All those bulls will be remembered by anyone growing up in that era because they were on the "Jordan Bulls".
To be the best ever in a competitive game, you almost have to be an a-. Jordan, Tiger, Young Ali, Ruth, Ty Cobb, Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens. I'm sure Brady is no peach to play with if you make a mistake. Federer might be the exception, but then again maybe not. There is something that drives those guys that is unnatural. They probably can't even put there finger on it, like Jordan had trouble doing. But they know they have sacrificed in ways others can't understand to be where they are. It is lonely being on top.
Federer doesn't play a team sport.
No but neither did Armstrong, Ali, or Tiger. But they were all obsessed with competition, had enormous egos, and largely defined as jerks.
I've yet to meet anyone who thought Ali was a jerk. Loud, opinionated, and confident, hell yes, but not a jerk.Heisenberg01 said:
No but neither did Armstrong, Ali, or Tiger. But they were all obsessed with competition, had enormous egos, and largely defined as jerks.
For some reason the Jordans stans on this thread refuse to believe people can think Jordan is an ******* because he's an *******, and instead believe it is some byproduct of his commitment to excellence.
You want to see someone who sacrificed in the pursuit of being the best? Nick Saban. Some in the media and some in the public think he's an absolute jerk because of how he comes across in the media, but people who know him rave about him.
People who knew Jordan during his playing days, especially his teammates, did not rave about him as a person, only as a player.
Heisenberg01 said:
No but neither did Armstrong, Ali, or Tiger. But they were all obsessed with competition, had enormous egos, and largely defined as jerks.
Just a personal observation -
I spent about 2 hours with Ali as a kid at his training camp as he was preparing for a fight . He seemed to have a higher purpose than just sports. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have even been there. That's my take. His public persona was just that, for show.
aggiedata said:Heisenberg01 said:
No but neither did Armstrong, Ali, or Tiger. But they were all obsessed with competition, had enormous egos, and largely defined as jerks.
Just a personal observation -
I spent about 2 hours with Ali as a kid at his training camp as he was preparing for a fight . He seemed to have a higher purpose than just sports. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have even been there. That's my take. His public persona was just that, for show.
I'm sure the kids that hung out with Michael Jordan pre-game would say he is a great guy too.
The narrative on Muhammad Ali has changed over the years and rightfully so. But when he was boxing he said some terrible things about his opponents including gorilla and Uncle Tom.
He also had some hot takes on interracial dating that would make most cringe.
The narrative has changed over the years, but Ali was not well liked by everyone when he was fighting. His persona could have been just for show, but I think it is naive to not see his competitive, egotistical nature made him the greatest to some and a jerk to others.
People who knew him and worked for him in Miami think he's a giant a-hole.Quote:
You want to see someone who sacrificed in the pursuit of being the best? Nick Saban. Some in the media and some in the public think he's an absolute jerk because of how he comes across in the media, but people who know him rave about him.
I don't think Jerk would be in the top 10 words to describe Ali. Showman would.
The only thing I really know about Ali that perhaps most people don't is that the most famous man on the planet earth at the time didn't let race, religion, age, society, or anything get in the way of who he considered a friend. I always found that remarkable. His friend was the reason I was there in the first place.
The only thing I really know about Ali that perhaps most people don't is that the most famous man on the planet earth at the time didn't let race, religion, age, society, or anything get in the way of who he considered a friend. I always found that remarkable. His friend was the reason I was there in the first place.
I think the 'Jordan was a jerk' thing is overplayed for a number of reasons. The biggest one being is, if you are a leader and want to be the best, it doesn't matter what field you are in, sometimes you are going to have to ask people to do things they don't want to do and, if you lead for any period of time, sometimes you'll have to ask for it in a way that puts the person being asked off some. Nature of leading and having to make tough decisions or sacrifices. It's not easy and you will make some people upset sometimes in the process.
But this is also why I think there will never be anybody to top Jordan's place in the NBA Best player ladder where brand is such a valuable thing for the best players: Jordan played in a bygone era we will never see again. He could be rough on his teammates and there weren't really great avenues for immediate public feedback loops to fans. He could be an ******* to people behind closed doors and the masses wouldn't know any better. Lebron, for instance, he can't. The infrastructure in media access allowed for there to be a gap in Jordan the celebrity personality and Jordan the player. I actually think that's playing itself out in this doc which was what I was trying to say earlier. I don't care what anybody says, the lag of time between when this footage was filmed and what was released, I guarantee Jordan's people had tremendous sway on what made it in and what didn't. Compared to today, if Lebron cursed his teammates out and called them useless or fought them in a practice, you would know about it the next day and, while if he did it once it wouldn't be that damaging, if his reputation was one of a person that berates his teammates constantly, he would ruin his brand (and personal value) substantially.
That's not knocking Lebron... just saying that if the same stakes held for Jordan would have he pushed as hard and brutally on teammates as he did in the 90's? Maybe not.
But this is also why I think there will never be anybody to top Jordan's place in the NBA Best player ladder where brand is such a valuable thing for the best players: Jordan played in a bygone era we will never see again. He could be rough on his teammates and there weren't really great avenues for immediate public feedback loops to fans. He could be an ******* to people behind closed doors and the masses wouldn't know any better. Lebron, for instance, he can't. The infrastructure in media access allowed for there to be a gap in Jordan the celebrity personality and Jordan the player. I actually think that's playing itself out in this doc which was what I was trying to say earlier. I don't care what anybody says, the lag of time between when this footage was filmed and what was released, I guarantee Jordan's people had tremendous sway on what made it in and what didn't. Compared to today, if Lebron cursed his teammates out and called them useless or fought them in a practice, you would know about it the next day and, while if he did it once it wouldn't be that damaging, if his reputation was one of a person that berates his teammates constantly, he would ruin his brand (and personal value) substantially.
That's not knocking Lebron... just saying that if the same stakes held for Jordan would have he pushed as hard and brutally on teammates as he did in the 90's? Maybe not.
I really wish people would stop making excuses for Jordan just because he's a terrific basketball player. He wasn't an ******* because he pushed his teammates to be better, he was an ******* because he projected a false image of himself out there and the media protected him. He only married Juanita because she was pregnant, and it would hurt him image to have an illegitimate child. He cheated on her constantly, and paid for it, to the tune of $168 million when she divorced him.
He was an ******* because every time the Bull brought in a new player, Jordan had to play them one-on-one to defeat them and establish his dominance. Like that was a question that he was the best player on the team? Who does that?
He's an ******* because he can't take criticism from a good friend and ostracizes the guy, even when his friend is telling the truth.
SACR said:
He's an ******* because he can't take criticism from a good friend and ostracizes the guy, even when his friend is telling the truth.
Keep saying this. Doesn't change the fact that you'd probably also freeze a friend out if they were so bold to say you were terrible at something to the wider public instead of saying it to your face. That's backstabbing stuff.
I'm self-aware enough to know there are plenty of things I'm not very good at. A friend telling the public at large I'm not good at these things would just be a statement of truth. If Jordan didn't know he was doing a piss-poor job as an executive, he was lying to himself.ATM9000 said:SACR said:
He's an ******* because he can't take criticism from a good friend and ostracizes the guy, even when his friend is telling the truth.
Keep saying this. Doesn't change the fact that you'd probably also freeze a friend out if they were so bold to say you were terrible at something to the wider public instead of saying it to your face. That's backstabbing stuff.
Keep goal-tending for Jordan, though, I'm sure he appreciates it.
SACR said:I'm self-aware enough to know there are plenty of things I'm not very good at. A friend telling the public at large I'm not good at these things would just be a statement of truth. If Jordan didn't know he was doing a piss-poor job as an executive, he was lying to himself.ATM9000 said:SACR said:
He's an ******* because he can't take criticism from a good friend and ostracizes the guy, even when his friend is telling the truth.
Keep saying this. Doesn't change the fact that you'd probably also freeze a friend out if they were so bold to say you were terrible at something to the wider public instead of saying it to your face. That's backstabbing stuff.
Keep goal-tending for Jordan, though, I'm sure he appreciates it.
Most people who can't come around that they'd feel pretty backstabbed by what Barkley did are doing a hell of a lot more goaltending for themselves than I'm doing for Jordan on that point.
I'll concede that Jordan cheating on his wife or whatever wasn't very nice... just don't act like what Barkley did wasn't a ****bird thing to do to a friend.
I think you guys need to embrace the healing power of "and." Jordan was a totally dominating player and a totally dominating person who refused to be beaten. He was probably not much fun to play with, although I imagine the championship celebrations were fun. But he can be a ******* of a human being and a jerk of a teammate and still be the best basketball player who ever played. My least favorite thing about the Twitter era is that we are now subjected to every little *****y thing any player thinks or feels, about themselves or someone else. I don't care. Get it done on the court. Karma and the lord can handle the rest.
See I disagree. Barley was a professional doing his job and so was Jordan. Most sports commentators are friends with some the players and owners they critique; you don't hold back to keep from pissing off a friend. That was Jordan being thin-skinned. I understand why he'd feel betrayed but it's business, not personal.
Incredible series. All things considered, probably the greatest athlete of all time.
I don't think people really appreciate going from not playing baseball in yearsssss to hitting over .200 and driving in 50 runs
The main takeaway for me is how rough the NBA was during Jordan's era. I understand that by the end of his career it wasn't as physical but those Piston's and Knick's series were brutal.
Something else I realized is the current rules have eliminated the enforcer player. There are no more Laimbeers, Charles Oakley, Mahorns etc in the league. It would have been fun to see how Lebron would have handled those guys patrolling the paint.
Something else I realized is the current rules have eliminated the enforcer player. There are no more Laimbeers, Charles Oakley, Mahorns etc in the league. It would have been fun to see how Lebron would have handled those guys patrolling the paint.
If i had 3 wishes, I would totally waste one of them on watching LeBron play against the Lambieer/Mahorn/Rodman Pistons. Would be he be able to shoot his free throws amid all the tears?
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