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Ken Burns' Country Music documentary starts tonight!!!

19,211 Views | 181 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Joe Exotic
rbtexan
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This will sound like a cynical response, but it's because radio stations don't care about music. They don't make money playing music, it actually costs them money. They make money from advertising, and they're more interested in programing whatever their marketing research shows the local demographic will most likely respond to - so that they can get a larger audience, and thus sell more car commercials.

I think your idea has a lot of merit, but a radio marketing director would probably shoot all sorts of holes in it, based on their "research".
Jimbo Franchione
Liquid Wrench
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Sirius has decades channels, but they're mostly pop rock or easy listening from what I've heard.
Diggity
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There's some decent internet radio stations that play 70's.

Radio Paradise plays some. West Coast 70's is good as well.
Txmoe
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Social Media Influencer said:

I've seen the criticisms about Johnny Cash elsewhere, and it surprises me. I do not think the documentary exaggerates or overstates his significance to country music.

More importantly, this is a documentary - not an anthology of everyone who ever recorded a country song. It's telling a narrative story, to which Cash is pretty central.
I don't think anyone is trying to deny Cash's rightful place in the pantheon of country music greats. His story arc connects the Carter family to Sun Records and Elvis Presley and eventually touches outlaw country with Willie, Waylon and Hank Jr. It's a great story and works thematically to push the narrative but, IMHO, it disproportionately features him relative to his actual influence. Those who are unfamiliar with country music might take from this doc that JC was even more influential than Hank Williams or Bob Wills based on screen time alone.

What bothered me [a small criticism of a great series] was how the doc talked about the importance of JC's TV show compared to those of other country stars of the day. The doc mentioned Glen Campbell as being one of JC's competitors when, in fact, Glen's TV show was much more popular and culturally relevant than JC's. GC's show grew out of the hastily-cancelled Smothers Brothers show and kept a lot of the writers and performers; and ran a lot longer. Adding insult to injury, this was pretty much the only time Glen Campbell was mentioned in the series.
1939
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Absolutely loved the series, the old pictures, videos, interviews, etc.

I have to agree though I got sick of the Johnny Cash being constantly featured. Not that the JC stuff was bad, but they could have featured a few more people. It was almost criminal that neither Do Williams or Conway Twitty were even mentioned in passing. Conway has the second most #1 hits after George Strait.
Burdizzo
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Not to derail too much, but there is a documentary called The Wrecking Crew about a group of studio musicians who backed A LOT of albums back in the 1960s. One of those musicians was Glen Campbell before he got it big. Watch that one and Glen Campbell's I'll Be Me, and Glen Campbell was one hell of a talented guitar picker. I don't know if he'd be known to be revolutionary or singular, but the dude had some talent.
Bunk Moreland
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Have to disagree.

He was bigger than Hank Williams and Bob Wills. Most influential could be debated for probably 10 people so I won't get hung up on that. His career spanned like 50 years, reinvented his career multiple times, crossed over, sold more records etc etc.

Hank Williams will always have his place as the guy who created what became true country music but he died young.

Cash also affected total American culture unlike any country artist ever.
JCA1
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Burdizzo said:

Not to derail too much, but there is a documentary called The Wrecking Crew about a group of studio musicians who backed A LOT of albums back in the 1960s. One of those musicians was Glen Campbell before he got it big. Watch that one and Glen Campbell's I'll Be Me, and Glen Campbell was one hell of a talented guitar picker. I don't know if he'd be known to be revolutionary or singular, but the dude had some talent.


Pretty sure Leon Russell was a part of the Wrecking Crew as well.
JCA1
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Were The Highwaymen mentioned? As much as the 4 guys were spotlighted individually, I'm surprised their super group wasn't brought up.
Bunk Moreland
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Finally finished tonight. That's got to be one of the top 10 best things I've ever watched in any medium.

When I saw that 84-97 only got 1 ep I was concerned but now having watched it I'm fine with that. Everything prior to that Era just had so much more to the story of how people got to where they are. Neo-traditional or 'prime' country is basically the dessert of a 5 course meal. Yeah it's amazing and what everyone remembers last but the meat and potatoes are what fills you up.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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JCA1 said:

Were The Highwaymen mentioned? As much as the 4 guys were spotlighted individually, I'm surprised their super group wasn't brought up.
I wanna say that they mentioned the supergroup in passing.
bluefire579
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Bunk Moreland said:

Finally finished tonight. That's got to be one of the top 10 best things I've ever watched in any medium.

When I saw that 84-97 only got 1 ep I was concerned but now having watched it I'm fine with that. Everything prior to that Era just had so much more to the story of how people got to where they are. Neo-traditional or 'prime' country is basically the dessert of a 5 course meal. Yeah it's amazing and what everyone remembers last but the meat and potatoes are what fills you up.
Pretty much this. It's easy to get lost in recency bias, because to a lot of us, George and Garth and everyone around the same time as them have been the biggest thing ever for most of our memories. It's so easy to forget how much happened before that, and how much the filmmakers had to fit within an 8 episode series. It's easy to play armchair quarterback and say they left out this artist or that, or didn't give enough time to certain periods, but at the end of the day, I don't think any of us can really ask more from what this series gave us without expanding it significantly.
Liquid Wrench
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Quote:

It was almost criminal that neither Do Williams or Conway Twitty were even mentioned in passing. Conway has the second most #1 hits after George Strait.
You could argue whether he got enough time, but Conway was certainly discussed.
Txmoe
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Bunk Moreland said:

Have to disagree.

He was bigger than Hank Williams and Bob Wills. Most influential could be debated for probably 10 people so I won't get hung up on that. His career spanned like 50 years, reinvented his career multiple times, crossed over, sold more records etc etc.

Hank Williams will always have his place as the guy who created what became true country music but he died young.

Cash also affected total American culture unlike any country artist ever.

I see what you did there. I was arguing screen time relative to influence and you quickly dismissed that and shifted to who was "bigger" based on longevity and record sales. While I respect Cash's longevity, there's no way to empirically compare those three artists from different eras and determine who was biggest. I argue for influence because Williams and Wills both created sub-genres of country music that exist to this day.

For Cash, I just think it comes down to whether you liked him as an artist. He was one of those performers about whom people were decidedly not on the fence; you either loved him or you didn't. For me, beyond his 4-5 biggest hits, he just wasn't my cup of tea. I still respect him, though, for his talent and commitment to the country music community.
Philo B 93
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My earliest memories of music are 8 Tracks of Hank Williams, Jimmie Rogers, Willie Nelson and Freddy Fender. "Honky Tonk Blues" was my first favorite song. My parents also had a box of 45s centered around Hank Thompson, Ernest Tubb, and Johnny Cash. I spent days listening to those records. It's interesting to see how many around here had the same early influence. I'm not alone anymore! This doc really brought back some great memories. I hope it influences some people in the business.

There are some decent artists playing old style country, but I'm not convinced they're getting right. Midland has a few songs that are pretty close most recently.
Burdizzo
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Just started Episode 3. Glad to see ET got some recognition. He was always a favorite of mine. Waltz Across Texas was the second song played at our wedding reception.
JCA1
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It also seemed to focus on guys who lived hard. Not terribly surprising since that does usually make for better TV. Unless I'm missing something, George Strait isn't a self destructive drug addict/alcoholic on his 4th volatile marriage like George Jones. While that's good for Strait, it probably did cut into his air time.
Bunk Moreland
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I think it's a few things.

1) You're right in that Strait didn't have a lot of other things happen to him that can always help tell a story.
2) They rushed through neo-traditional in general
3) He didn't participate in the documentary series.

So when they decided to rush through what all of us basically know as modern country, he wasn't there to tell stories and he also lived a pretty straight and narrow life. Sort of all worked together to limit his time.
Hub `93
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So I did miss Arnold. I was wondering.

Regarding Strait: maybe interview the people who wrote his biggest hits. There have been some talented people in Nashville over the years who are unknown even though they wrote great songs for other artists that people know and love.
JB!98
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JCA1 said:

It also seemed to focus on guys who lived hard. Not terribly surprising since that does usually make for better TV. Unless I'm missing something, George Strait isn't a self destructive drug addict/alcoholic on his 4th volatile marriage like George Jones. While that's good for Strait, it probably did cut into his air time.
Well if I remember correctly, George lost his daughter young to a car wreck and really liked the nose candy for a while. True he is still married to the same woman, but the couple of times I met him outside of concert type venues, he was feeling no pain. I agree not to the extent of George Jones or Johnny Cash.

As a side note, all of those guys from the 50's to current really liked their Mary Jane. My grandpa had a traveling band in the 60's-80's in South Texas. He got to know Ray Price by fixing the AC on his bus. He went on the play fiddle with Ray for a short period of time. Ray would rival Wille for his consumption of pot.

Another interesting thing is that many of these guys that were great musicians were all self taught. They learned by hearing the music rather than reading the notes. My grandpa taught himself to play the fiddle by listening to it being played on reel to reels and then cassettes. My son walked in on me crying like a baby during this documentary because the songs would make me think of my grandpa sitting on the edge of the bed with his fiddle listening to cassettes he had recorded off the radio (KKYX and KBUC) over and over again to learn the music for his next Saturday night gig at some VFW somewhere.
dave99ag
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My dad's cousin, Big Bill Lister, played and toured with Hank Williams in the early 50s. Williams recorded a demo of There's a Tear in My Beer, but never released it. He gave the demo to Bill. Nearly 40 years later, Bill's wife found the demo in their attic. Bill gave them demo to Hank Jr. and it was released to the world. Always thought it was cool to have family with a small connection to country royalty.

Txmoe
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Here's a good review of the documentary. Includes a list of the most notable omissions and why they might have been left out (or given too little consideration). Also makes a fair point of the impossibility of pleasing everybody with the doc.

https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/biggest-oversights-in-the-ken-burns-country-music-documentary/
Burdizzo
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Txmoe said:

Here's a good review of the documentary. Includes a list of the most notable omissions and why they might have been left out (or given too little consideration). Also makes a fair point of the impossibility of pleasing everybody with the doc.

https://www.savingcountrymusic.com/biggest-oversights-in-the-ken-burns-country-music-documentary/


I have not read that article yet. I know there is so much history to the cloud that is "country" music not everything was going to make it into a 16 hour story. That said, the criticism is not unexpected. I remember watching his documentary on Baseball in the 1990s. I felt like the way he blew through the 1970s and 1980s history of baseball was particularly egregious.
Burdizzo
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David Allen Coe is what you'd have if Hank Williams life is a video game, and you levelled up about 10 more times after 1953.

Liquid Wrench
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Pretty good Burns interview here, answering some questions about omissions:
https://variety.com/2019/music/news/ken-burns-interview-country-music-1203336019/

Cliff's note is that they were trying to tell a story, not catalogue everything, and they had to make cuts. But other interesting points, like why they stopped where they did.

Started on this 8 years ago.


Quote:

It's a little spooky watching some of the interviews you did not that very long ago where people look vibrant and beautiful and alive and they're not anymore. To put it bluntly, there are so many dead people recently dead people in this film.

You see dead people? Yeah. We did 101 interviews. I don't know how many we finally used. It's around 80, I think And no fault of those people that weren't included; the film just went in a different direction, or we decided to not get into the details of that. But 20 of those 101 folks are passed, and that really, really hurts. We've lost in the last year Fred Foster and Hazel Smith and several other people. Cowboy Jack (Clement) is great, and so many others. It's the bittersweet part of this. Frankly, when we start out, we work our way down the actuarial tables. You know, we just go to the oldest people first: Little Jimmy Dickens, Ralph Stanley both gone because we want to get them. Merle (Haggard). The bitterness is clear, and the sweetness is, we got 'em. They're there. And there's a kind of amazing presence. If what Merle says in the film is true that country music is about things we believe in but can't see: dreams and songs and souls there's no question that his soul is still there.
Txmoe
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Good article, Soc Med In. The interview where Dwight Yoakam got choked up reciting Merle Haggard's lyrics was also one of my favorite moments.
Bunk Moreland
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Good link. Man this quote says it all...


Quote:

All I care about is a good story. People always say, "Who did you make it for?" And I say, "Everybody," and they look at me like I'm crazy. I made it for the people who love country music and know a lot about it. I made it for the people who aren't sure about it. And I made it for the people who don't like it. Because if you tell a good story, you might change somebody's mind. I had a friend that came up to me just before a screening and said, "Man, I've loved everything you've done, Ken. but country music, I don't know" And he shook his head as if I'd stepped in a cow patty, and it was a big, huge career mistake. And four days later, after showing two episodes a day and talking and whatever, he was just in tears sobbing. And he's apologized for the last year and a half. I said, "You don't need to apologize! I get it." He calls me up and tells me he's downloaded the Louvin Brothers or Jimmie Rogers, or says, "Boy, Emmylou is fabulous. Where do you place it?" I make these for that person who thinks they're not supposed to be interested in baseball or battles of the Civil War or Prohibition or whatever it might be. If you tell a good story, everybody should be leaning in.
Dr. Teeth
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Just finished the last episode. It was great and I've got nothing really to add that hasn't already been said... except... Good Lord, Dolly in her 20s...

DG-Ag
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Huge void in my tv-watching life now that it's over. Kind of howI felt when Lonesome Dove was over.
Aust Ag
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So I screwed up and forgot to record anything after the Patsy Cline/early Cash episode.

Think they'll be replaying?
rbtexan
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You can still watch it all on the PBS app
Jimbo Franchione
Bunk Moreland
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do you have a smart TV/roku/etc?

Download the PBS app. free to watch.
Burdizzo
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Watched the second to last episode lat night. No mention of Urban Cowboy.
Txmoe
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Burdizzo said:

Watched the second to last episode lat night. No mention of Urban Cowboy.
I think the last episode started with a still photo from Urban Cowboy while a song from the soundtrack played in the background. They didn't mention it by name but the narrator said something like, "with several movies generating a renewed interest in country music..."

Was surprised that neither UC or O Brother, Where Art Thou? were mentioned. Especially given that both were good examples of one of the documentary's running themes that just about the time people began to write off country music, something happened that brought it back into the mainstream.
Andyzipp
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Film ended with 1997, roughly. "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" was released in 2000.
 
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