Other side of the coin, last Saturday, I watched "Midway" in Hong Kong. I was the only Anglo in the theatre but, on screen, I noticed they only showed a single Black guy. And even that was from behind so you never saw his face. For that historical based movie, probably not too far from the truth but still noticeable.cbr said:As a straight white male, it screams out at you - bombarded from every media. Im all for inclusiveness. Im all for randomness in who jumps off the screen as a hero. But recently its become a full blown agenda from every screen source there is. Huge deal? No. But you cant help but notice it.TCTTS said:
I think it's suuuuuper weird to imply that something like this doesn't have enough white males. That didn't even cross my mind, and I don't know how that would possibly matter or make it better if it did, but whatever. It's just... that sounds... you know. There's a WAY better way to phrase what you're getting at.
But yes, there is a woke-ish element to this movie that's a little too on-the-nose in a certain regard, and might rub the more, shall we say, "sensitive" of the bunch the wrong way. Though, it's not in-your-face or preachy by any means. And it is not political AT ALL, just so we can nip that potential headache of a conversation in the bud. It's just that one of the two main new leads is a Mexican woman, there's a border-crossing element, and a subtle female empowerment theme; three things that certain posters here are known to be... "perceptive' to. But no sane individual could possibly be offended by anything in this movie. If anything, it only builds on the themes established in the first two movies.
Terminator: Dark Fate
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hollywood has been pushing inclusiveness almost since inception. that's generally a good thing.
Hell, GIANT was a huge social justice movie, in the 50's. I can particularly relate to that growing up in south texas.
your 'midway' comment reminds me: I just watched an old b movie classic last night - the final countdown. kirk douglas about the late 70's Nimitz time warping to december 6, 1941 off of pearl.
great flight/carrier ops scenes movie.
the female lead is a 1941 lady political writer. she's full on feminist (in the good ways, not the bad) not out of the ordinary in 1979. but it was a hard push. certainly strong for a 1941 character.
anyway, to your point, the XO was african american. not out of the ordinary by1979, but i found it weird that the 1941 'senator' rescued aboard the Nimitz didnt freak out - as there were certainly not many african american carrier XO's in 1941.
where it goes over the top is the forced, awkward, deliberate pushing of an anti straight white male agenda across every format.
the POINT of america is for everyone to be free, equal americans. that means having american ideals and core values, and opportunities.
it goes AGAINST the POINT to push all these racial/sexual categories and emphasize their faults and differences, which is were we are now. its not a coincidence, it is a social weak point that is being exploited.
ten years ago racial/sexual divides were quickly fading into insignificance. they've been brought back. on purpose.
Hell, GIANT was a huge social justice movie, in the 50's. I can particularly relate to that growing up in south texas.
your 'midway' comment reminds me: I just watched an old b movie classic last night - the final countdown. kirk douglas about the late 70's Nimitz time warping to december 6, 1941 off of pearl.
great flight/carrier ops scenes movie.
the female lead is a 1941 lady political writer. she's full on feminist (in the good ways, not the bad) not out of the ordinary in 1979. but it was a hard push. certainly strong for a 1941 character.
anyway, to your point, the XO was african american. not out of the ordinary by1979, but i found it weird that the 1941 'senator' rescued aboard the Nimitz didnt freak out - as there were certainly not many african american carrier XO's in 1941.
where it goes over the top is the forced, awkward, deliberate pushing of an anti straight white male agenda across every format.
the POINT of america is for everyone to be free, equal americans. that means having american ideals and core values, and opportunities.
it goes AGAINST the POINT to push all these racial/sexual categories and emphasize their faults and differences, which is were we are now. its not a coincidence, it is a social weak point that is being exploited.
ten years ago racial/sexual divides were quickly fading into insignificance. they've been brought back. on purpose.
People who have never seen themselves represented in film and tv till now would strongly disagree with you.
While there will always be clunky examples, people on screen who are different than you isn't emphasizing their faults and differences...it's just showing someone different. And it can sometimes be fascinating to get a glimpse into a culture or subculture that many never would have been able to experience otherwise.
While there will always be clunky examples, people on screen who are different than you isn't emphasizing their faults and differences...it's just showing someone different. And it can sometimes be fascinating to get a glimpse into a culture or subculture that many never would have been able to experience otherwise.
Seriously? You believe this?cbr said:
ten years ago racial/sexual divides were quickly fading into insignificance. they've been brought back. on purpose.
MBAR said:Seriously? You believe this?cbr said:
ten years ago racial/sexual divides were quickly fading into insignificance. they've been brought back. on purpose.
I think a lot of people believe this.
But I think (and this is just me) that a certain generation developed a massive chip on their shoulders growing up and not realizing that the original civil rights/feminist movements have had all their demands met in spades for some time now and that healing had actually begun.
And I think certain personalities need something to constantly ***** about.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Can you please post the articles circa 2004 debating whether the next James Bond should be black?MBAR said:Seriously? You believe this?cbr said:
ten years ago racial/sexual divides were quickly fading into insignificance. they've been brought back. on purpose.
i grew up in poor ass kingsville texas - best friend was mexicanfig96 said:
People who have never seen themselves represented in film and tv till now would strongly disagree with you.
While there will always be clunky examples, people on screen who are different than you isn't emphasizing their faults and differences...it's just showing someone different. And it can sometimes be fascinating to get a glimpse into a culture or subculture that many never would have been able to experience otherwise.
then i got lucky and went to private kindergarten in houston - best friend was indian
then we ended up home schooled and living in a closet - no friends
then we ended up in a broke ass neighborhood in st. paul - almost all black elementary school - best friend was black
then we ended up in south africa, in a boer/euro religious retreat - best friend was black
then ended up in west germany - best friend was german
then came back to tyler texas right as they desegregated the schools
tyler was sharply divided amongs preppies, ffa, blacks, mexicans, goth 80's types, i had friends in every group.
worked all over the world, asia, latam, europe
there arent many cultures i havent experienced in depth.
what is going on today is not just 'showing different people as protagonists'
it is an active effort at creating racial/sexual divides, and destroying core values that made western european/american civilization the most tolerant, successful major civilization in history.
I absolutely appreciate the context and the effort to distinguish from "just showing different people as protagonists." This is exactly the kind of nuance that would benefit all of these types of discussions here, and the lack of that context/nuance is when these types of discussions more often than not devolve into yelling and name calling.
It's your final sentence I take slight issue with, though.
Do some of the more extreme on the left seek to create divides in the way you describe? Absolutely. But in general, I think it's more of a case of well-meaning people taking their beliefs a step too far. When you use words like "active effort" and "destroying core values," it paints a picture that ALL of these Hollywood types are malicious social justice warriors when that's simply not true. The people you're talking about are a small minority who happen to have the loudest voices at times. Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
It's your final sentence I take slight issue with, though.
Do some of the more extreme on the left seek to create divides in the way you describe? Absolutely. But in general, I think it's more of a case of well-meaning people taking their beliefs a step too far. When you use words like "active effort" and "destroying core values," it paints a picture that ALL of these Hollywood types are malicious social justice warriors when that's simply not true. The people you're talking about are a small minority who happen to have the loudest voices at times. Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
I'd like to see more Asians in film. Yeah, I'm into Asian girls. But they're also some very talented actors in this community.
It must suck being a really talented Asian American actor only to get casting calls for "Yakuza#3" or "Viet Cong #2" with no lines.
I see blacks and Latinos cashing in on white guilt, but Asians get overlooked b/c why?
It must suck being a really talented Asian American actor only to get casting calls for "Yakuza#3" or "Viet Cong #2" with no lines.
I see blacks and Latinos cashing in on white guilt, but Asians get overlooked b/c why?
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Bet you loved Kill Bill.Quote:
Yeah, I'm into Asian girls.
Brian Earl Spilner said:Bet you loved Kill Bill.Quote:
Yeah, I'm into Asian girls.
Yes, please.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
You and over half the world!PaulSimonsGhost said:
Yeah, I'm into Asian girls.
or was that not PC i guess?
For the record - my original comments regarding races shown in the Terminator Dark Fate movie weren't about the protagonist(s). It was the fact that of the supporting characters who had screen time, almost all were minorities (meaning not white male). And, of the approximately 3 white male characters (who weren't Arnold), at least one of them was essentially a cartoon character (a la Homer Simpson type).TCTTS said:
Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
I've got no problem with setting the movie in Mexico and having it show Mexicans. Duh. But, when we start to involve American agencies - USAF, CBP, Texas DPS, etc. you're going to tell me that every person they interact with from those agencies just randomly happens to be a minority.
Well said on all counts, and I really appreciate the genuine attempt at discussion here.TCTTS said:
I absolutely appreciate the context and the effort to distinguish from "just showing different people as protagonists." This is exactly the kind of nuance that would benefit all of these types of discussions here, and the lack of that context/nuance is when these types of discussions more often than not devolve into yelling and name calling.
It's your final sentence I take slight issue with, though.
Do some of the more extreme on the left seek to create divides in the way you describe? Absolutely. But in general, I think it's more of a case of well-meaning people taking their beliefs a step too far. When you use words like "active effort" and "destroying core values," it paints a picture that ALL of these Hollywood types are malicious social justice warriors when that's simply not true. The people you're talking about are a small minority who happen to have the loudest voices at times. Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
I also think that it's worth noting that exposure to different cultures doesn't mean you understand what they've experienced. There's a huge difference between having friends of another race or culture vs actually living that day in and day out, and seeing more narratives told from those varying perspectives opens up a whole new world of storytelling.
HollywoodBQ said:For the record - my original comments regarding races shown in the Terminator Dark Fate movie weren't about the protagonist(s). It was the fact that of the supporting characters who had screen time, almost all were minorities (meaning not white male). And, of the approximately 3 white male characters (who weren't Arnold), at least one of them was essentially a cartoon character (a la Homer Simpson type).TCTTS said:
Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
I've got no problem with setting the movie in Mexico and having it show Mexicans. Duh. But, when we start to involve American agencies - USAF, CBP, Texas DPS, etc. you're going to tell me that every person they interact with from those agencies just randomly happens to be a minority.
So you're looking for 100% racial accuracy in a movie about time-traveling robots?
Seriously, though, I get what you're saying, it's just that, personally, I don't see it as that big of a deal. Those scenes were so minor, and for all we know those were friends of the director or something. I'm not going to go looking for agendas in such a minuscule part of a movie like this.
So I assume you've got Crazy Rich Asians running on a loop in the backgroundPaulSimonsGhost said:
I'd like to see more Asians in film. Yeah, I'm into Asian girls.
I loved that movie by the way. Mostly because I've been to Singapore a lot (including for the F1 the past two years). So, many of the public settings were familiar. And of course Ken Jeong cracking his Cal St. Fullerton joke was hilarious.
EDIT: Should have added, I've got to drop offline and get ready to go to work in Tokyo this morning. Later.
TCTTS said:HollywoodBQ said:For the record - my original comments regarding races shown in the Terminator Dark Fate movie weren't about the protagonist(s). It was the fact that of the supporting characters who had screen time, almost all were minorities (meaning not white male). And, of the approximately 3 white male characters (who weren't Arnold), at least one of them was essentially a cartoon character (a la Homer Simpson type).TCTTS said:
Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
I've got no problem with setting the movie in Mexico and having it show Mexicans. Duh. But, when we start to involve American agencies - USAF, CBP, Texas DPS, etc. you're going to tell me that every person they interact with from those agencies just randomly happens to be a minority.
So you're looking for 100% racial accuracy in a movie about time-traveling robots?
Seriously, though, I get what you're saying, it's just that, personally, I don't see it as that big of a deal. Those scenes were so minor, and for all we know those were friends of the director or something. I'm not going to go looking for agendas in such a minuscule part of a movie like this.
Well Hollywood served and over his life he's lived all over the world, so he's seen these places and these agencies like I have and it all stores up in your unconscious database.
So when you see things misportrayed in movies it's like a picture hanging crooked on the wall (for me at least). Your frustration isn't necessarily political, but those crooked hanging pictures start to really distract you from the conversation and if you know somebody hung those pictures askew on purpose you're like,
"You're making me nuts here, hang it straight."
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize. Once i learned more about it, it really starts jumping out at you. it is a recent trend to go from 'let's be inclusive' to todays' 'let's deliberately divide people in our own subtle or not so subtle way'. and it is a political agenda.TCTTS said:
I absolutely appreciate the context and the effort to distinguish from "just showing different people as protagonists." This is exactly the kind of nuance that would benefit all of these types of discussions here, and the lack of that context/nuance is when these types of discussions more often than not devolve into yelling and name calling.
It's your final sentence I take slight issue with, though.
Do some of the more extreme on the left seek to create divides in the way you describe? Absolutely. But in general, I think it's more of a case of well-meaning people taking their beliefs a step too far. When you use words like "active effort" and "destroying core values," it paints a picture that ALL of these Hollywood types are malicious social justice warriors when that's simply not true. The people you're talking about are a small minority who happen to have the loudest voices at times. Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
i'll give an old example.
good movie - crimson tide. danzel washington is your hero. Xo of the nuke sub.
gene hackman is the 'villain' though it really was not written as a villain that way
the dilema is old school navy - hackman - follow orders to nuke russia even when comms are out and orders incomplete, or new school navy - denzel, thinking, taking risks, cautious about nukes and questioning whether orders were complete or valid.
it was a brilliant setup and very tense.
then they did it. nearing the climax, mutiny, crew freaking out, the world at stake, they force the cheap ass - hack villain scene where hackman all of a sudden makes it about race, and denzel gets to make a smarmy 'always bet on black' moment....
it ruined a brilliant movie, wonderful tension between two great actors, great story, and no one was thinking about race AT ALL.
the examples go on and on.
look, i like all kinds of heroes, just make them heroes, make them believable, make them real americans, dont force race bait me.
and dont push all your other leftist bull**** on me either.. last night was watching part of the latest 'predator' (had to stay up all night to watch a colicking horse) . not terrible mindless entertainment, but then they try to get serious - the aliens want earth DNA now because we're all going to die out because of global warming and this is the last generation.
jesus christ....
cbr said:good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize. Once i learned more about it, it really starts jumping out at you. it is a recent trend to go from 'let's be inclusive' to todays' 'let's deliberately divide people in our own subtle or not so subtle way'. and it is a political agenda.TCTTS said:
I absolutely appreciate the context and the effort to distinguish from "just showing different people as protagonists." This is exactly the kind of nuance that would benefit all of these types of discussions here, and the lack of that context/nuance is when these types of discussions more often than not devolve into yelling and name calling.
It's your final sentence I take slight issue with, though.
Do some of the more extreme on the left seek to create divides in the way you describe? Absolutely. But in general, I think it's more of a case of well-meaning people taking their beliefs a step too far. When you use words like "active effort" and "destroying core values," it paints a picture that ALL of these Hollywood types are malicious social justice warriors when that's simply not true. The people you're talking about are a small minority who happen to have the loudest voices at times. Otherwise, it *is* mostly people who simply want to "show different people as protagonists."
i'll give an old example.
good movie - crimson tide. danzel washington is your hero. Xo of the nuke sub.
gene hackman is the 'villain' though it really was not written as a villain that way
the dilema is old school navy - hackman - follow orders to nuke russia even when comms are out and orders incomplete, or new school navy - denzel, thinking, taking risks, cautious about nukes and questioning whether orders were complete or valid.
it was a brilliant setup and very tense.
then they did it. nearing the climax, mutiny, crew freaking out, the world at stake, they force the cheap ass - hack villain scene where hackman all of a sudden makes it about race, and denzel gets to make a smarmy 'always bet on black' moment....
it ruined a brilliant movie, wonderful tension between two great actors, great story, and no one was thinking about race AT ALL.
the examples go on and on.
look, i like all kinds of heroes, just make them heroes, make them believable, make them real americans, dont force race bait me.
and dont push all your other leftist bull**** on me either.. last night was watching part of the latest 'predator' (had to stay up all night to watch a colicking horse) . not terrible mindless entertainment, but then they try to get serious - the aliens want earth DNA now because we're all going to die out because of global warming and this is the last generation.
jesus christ....
Yeah, the military is probably the least racially conscious organization I've ever been affiliated with.
Not that there isn't racial resentment at times. But for me, more than any time in my life people were not black or white or brown - just blue.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
i acknowledge that. i do get it more than most.fig96 said:
Well said on all counts, and I really appreciate the genuine attempt at discussion here.
I also think that it's worth noting that exposure to different cultures doesn't mean you understand what they've experienced. There's a huge difference between having friends of another race or culture vs actually living that day in and day out, and seeing more narratives told from those varying perspectives opens up a whole new world of storytelling.
i've been the only anglo in a month long business deal in china.
i've been almost the only white kid in the elementary school for 3 years.
i even ended up being the only white couple in new orleans the night before the Bayou Classic.
i have a lot of experiences. my first day in SA on the way from the airport i saw my first dead people, whole white family had been hacked up with machetes on their ranch.
you know what? the blacks and whites in SA that we lived with had no trouble identifying what was wrong with that.
getting a roll off the dinner table is a VERY different experience in a mexican household in Kingsvillle than it is in a rich white house in Tyler, or a single mother minnesota black family of 6 kids. different again in SA in the 70's, and different again in china.
being a minority CAN be uncomfortable (or worse) in ways that you can't really get without experiencing it.
but you wont get that from a movie either. cheap one liners or blatant agendas can't get you there.
when you interact with real people - of any color, we all like and want the same things - good humor, good food, basic comforts, generosity, good manners, fair dealings, basic respect, honesty, despite human history, it's truly not that hard.
10 years ago, in america you could enjoy all of those things in most places in america without significant tension.
today, politics and race/sex baiting is forefront in every news story, movie, political drivel, tv show, etc. It is making people tense around each other that would never have been that way 10 years ago, if we'd have been allowed to keep growing as a society.
but strong, educated, informed, financially viable, armed and united americans cannot be EXPLOITED, and thus that demographic has been under attack for a long time. this is part of it.
Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ok tell us more. always looking for new data points.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
I have. Countless times on this board. And frankly, I don't have the mental energy right now to go through it yet again.
so yeah, i am always open to data, but the reality is that this agenda is not expressed in a way you are going to know about it even if you work in the industry. at all. unless you are a real player on the Board of Directors. And even then it wont be in the minutes. and it wont be even in executive session. it will be set in private meetings.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ask me how i know.
Dude. Come on. This is veering more and more toward tin foil conspiracy theory nonsense...
not really, the proof is in the product. nothing else is needed to know what is going on.TCTTS said:
Dude. Come on. This is veering more and more toward tin foil conspiracy theory nonsense...
but if you really want to know, that's where policies like that are set in every big business.
i've been there. I've seen senior politicians get together with the union leadership, and the senior lenders, and basically steal 10 billion dollars from the common stock holders - you wont find that in the board minutes,
and if you work in accounting, safety, or even legal, even in upper management, you wont hear a peep about it. You will even be sent on goose chases...but it happened.
Wow, getting kinda intense in here. How about some more Asian girls.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
cbr said:so yeah, i am always open to data, but the reality is that this agenda is not expressed in a way you are going to know about it even if you work in the industry. at all. unless you are a real player on the Board of Directors. And even then it wont be in the minutes. and it wont be even in executive session. it will be set in private meetings.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ask me how i know.
Harvey, is that you?
Exactly!schmendeler said:cbr said:so yeah, i am always open to data, but the reality is that this agenda is not expressed in a way you are going to know about it even if you work in the industry. at all. unless you are a real player on the Board of Directors. And even then it wont be in the minutes. and it wont be even in executive session. it will be set in private meetings.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ask me how i know.
Harvey, is that you?
schmendeler said:cbr said:so yeah, i am always open to data, but the reality is that this agenda is not expressed in a way you are going to know about it even if you work in the industry. at all. unless you are a real player on the Board of Directors. And even then it wont be in the minutes. and it wont be even in executive session. it will be set in private meetings.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ask me how i know.
Harvey, is that you?
Hey!
Knock that **** off.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
PaulSimonsGhost said:schmendeler said:cbr said:so yeah, i am always open to data, but the reality is that this agenda is not expressed in a way you are going to know about it even if you work in the industry. at all. unless you are a real player on the Board of Directors. And even then it wont be in the minutes. and it wont be even in executive session. it will be set in private meetings.TCTTS said:Quote:
good post, but unfortunately, hollywood has become a very consolidated power structure, with a specific agenda getting pushed for political reasons - much more than people realize.
Yeah, I literally work in Hollywood and this isn't even remotely accurate.
ask me how i know.
Harvey, is that you?
Hey!
Knock that **** off.
Knock what off? Making jokes? No, I don't think I will.
.jpg){kind=icon}
Jokes are fine.
Mocking people is fine.
Accusing a decent guy of being the blackest spot in his profession?
Ewww, gonna have to say no.
(Let's not make this a back and forth thing. Respond and then we're even)
Mocking people is fine.
Accusing a decent guy of being the blackest spot in his profession?
Ewww, gonna have to say no.
(Let's not make this a back and forth thing. Respond and then we're even)
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
I think it's pretty clear in his subsequent post that he's not in the entertainment industry. That's ignoring his posting history in general.
schmendeler said:
I think it's pretty clear in his subsequent post that he's not in the entertainment industry. That's ignoring his posting history in general.
F_ck.
You're right.
Gawddam it.
I misread whom you were speaking to. And now I owe you an apology, schmendler.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.
Steve McQueen
Steve McQueen
Lol .... ok. Harvey will have his statue just like joe pa.
Anyway, i'll just drop this here on the way out.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/get-woke-go-broke-charlies-angels-fall-earth
[url=https://www.zerohedge.com/political/get-woke-go-broke-charlies-angels-fall-earth][/url]Being pro-female doesn't mean being anti-male but that's where we are in 2019. And it is destroying our ability as a society to even discuss these issues rationally
Anyway, i'll just drop this here on the way out.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/get-woke-go-broke-charlies-angels-fall-earth
[url=https://www.zerohedge.com/political/get-woke-go-broke-charlies-angels-fall-earth][/url]Being pro-female doesn't mean being anti-male but that's where we are in 2019. And it is destroying our ability as a society to even discuss these issues rationally
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