Terminator: Dark Fate

32,655 Views | 286 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TXAG 05
TCTTS
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AG
Two franchise-related questions I had while watching this movie...

1) Why don't the machines just send back a robot that has the size, shape, and appearance of a little wasp or bug or something, with just enough lethal poison or venom in it? Then inconspicuously land on the target, sting him/her, and be done with it? I realize the answer is, "Because then there would be no movie," but I found this one so much sillier in that regard. Sending back a human-size killing machine just seemed like A LOT of effort and needless attention-grabbing, when there are dozens other more efficient ways to handle a mission like this.

2) In T2, when Sara and John prevent Judgment Day in 1995, what happens to all of the people and the world of 2029? The resistance sends back a T-800 from 2029 to protect John, but doesn't the T-800 succeeding in its mission erase the world of 2029? I realize that this latest movie operates under the idea that all they did was delay Judgement Day. But still, after sending the T-800 back, is the resistance all just fighting and waiting around in 2029 and then do they simply blink out of existence when Sara and John lower the T-800 into the vat in 1995? Nothing about the time travel in these movies makes any sense whatsoever. I swear, Endgame's view/explanation of time travel has ruined all other time travel movies for (in a good way, as Endgame was so fun and brilliant).
HollywoodBQ
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AG

Quote:

what happens to all of the people and the world of 2029? The resistance sends back a T-800 from 2029 to protect John, but doesn't the T-800 succeeding in its mission erase the world of 2029?

When Bill & Ted have to retake their Senior Year, they save all the people from 2029 and bring them back to San Dimas. Thus why we have so many undocumented people in SoCal.
HollywoodBQ
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TCTTS said:

Surely we can finally put this franchise to rest now. This installment definitely hints at further adventures, but I don't think anyone gives two sh*ts anymore, including myself. Reboot the whole thing in ten years, when you're not beholden to awkwardly cramming Schwarzenegger into every one...


You know, until you posted that, I hadn't even thought about the economics of the movie. $185M seems like a lot but they'll probably make it back - eventually. New markets - China, Middle East, etc. I'm going to Hong Kong next week and Japan the week after, I'll see how it's doing there.
TCTTS
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HollywoodBQ said:


Quote:

what happens to all of the people and the world of 2029? The resistance sends back a T-800 from 2029 to protect John, but doesn't the T-800 succeeding in its mission erase the world of 2029?

When Bill & Ted have to retake their Senior Year, they save all the people from 2029 and bring them back to San Dimas. Thus why we have so many undocumented people in SoCal.

Bill & Ted & Carl (if you know, you know)

I would be there in a heartbeat for that crossover.
C@LAg
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Sine poena nulla lex.
PaulSimonsGhost
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AG
One of the worst films of 2019. I genuinely ****ed up by seeing this before learning the plot.

A 2 hour journey into feminism and anatomically impossible fight scenes.


Hollywood is losing millions by writing to appease every alienated demographic but the ones who

A) established these franchises

B) actually overpay to see them

C) generate DVD sales


Get woke; go broke. $183 million price tag? $28 million box office opening weekend **** sticks.
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

Steve McQueen
Bobcat06
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AG
As a standalone action film, it was awesome. Arnold is legitimately hilarious.

As it fits in the series continuity, it's horrible. Force Awakens is a good comparison because it feels like they were remaking the original with different actors.

As far as "get woke go broke" is concerned, I didn't notice/care about ethnicities. Obviously all the good guys (besides Arnold) are women, but the first was one was like that so whatever. What did bug me was the middle act focused on crossing the border. I didn't mind for political reasons but rather because it felt like a played out cliche trope.
Urban Ag
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AG
My two sons: Hard pass.
Cromagnum
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It was fun enough to watch once but not a 2nd time. Has no place in cannon really.
rhutton125
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AG
PaulSimonsGhost said:

Get woke; go broke.

Question about that. And let me preface this by saying I really don't have a dog in the hunt - I haven't even seen a trailer for Dark Fate.

What other movies went woke and went broke? The only ones I can think of were the ones that were massively successful. Halloween, and the superhero properties. Things like that.

Just curious. Again, wasn't going to see this movie at all unless the reviews were amazing, and they were "kinda decent" instead. But I assume the failure of this movie has more to do with The fact that this is the 4th attempt to resurrect this franchise (5th if you count the TV show) rather than any particular social agenda.
Urban Ag
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AG
Fair questions. IMO, regardless of what the target audience is the natural audience is young males. 110 lb grandma with a pistol grip shotgun kind of scuttles this for the young male audience right out of the gates. Also IMO, whatever gains they believe they are going to make with the female audience won't come close to offsetting the losses from the young male crowd.
Cromagnum
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AG
My biggest beef with it is

Skynet was defeated but yet a T800 still came back to kill John, then the humans still make a military AI system and just call it something else anyways. By the way, that system still controls nearly the same robots that Skynet did.
Bobcat06
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rhutton125 said:


What other movies went woke and went broke?
Ghostbusters reboot, Star Wars (no one saw Solo as a result of Last Jedi) and many others
TCTTS
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There was a throw-away voice-over line from Sara saying something like Skynet sent back multiple Terminators. So I'm assuming the second T-800 that killed John was sent back around the same time as they sent back the T-1000. And then it just now found them? Either way, again, nothing about the logic of this movie made any damn sense whatsoever.
rhutton125
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AG
Ghostbusters is a good example. I don't know if I'd go that far for Solo - TLJ had a lot of criticism aside from wokeness, so I'd think it's more Star Wars fatigue than woke-fatigue. But to each his own.

That website has some good examples but also some laughable ones. Mass Effect Androma didn't fail because it pushed diversity - it had a mess of a 5-year development and had to restart again and again and push through a new engine that EA was making them use, etc. etc. Luke Cage was cancelled but so were all of the Netlfix MCU shows. And so on.

I guess this is just something that wasn't on my radar until reading this thread. Curious to see where things go from here.
double aught
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Bobcat06 said:

rhutton125 said:


What other movies went woke and went broke?
Ghostbusters reboot, Star Wars (no one saw Solo as a result of Last Jedi) and many others

There may be a point buried in there somewhere, but that linked list is a stretch to put it mildly.
PaulSimonsGhost
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AG
$120 million in losses.

You know what I'd do with $120 Million?

Two chicks at the same time. And with $120 million I think I could swing that.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/amp/news/terminator-dark-fate-puts-franchise-ice-faces-120m-loss-1251926
Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

Steve McQueen
Brian Earl Spilner
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Shame it's bombing so hard. Hard to believe it couldn't even match Genisys' opening weekend, with Linda Hamilton back.

Still want to check this out before it leaves IMAX. Maybe tomorrow.

And I haven't read any of the reactions yet, but there better be a damn good explanation as to how another Terminator was sent after the events of T2.
PaulSimonsGhost
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I felt the same way going to see Aliens IV back in the 90's. You're not gonna like the explanation.

Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

Steve McQueen
TheEyeGuy
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AG
Saw it yesterday, figured I would hate myself for going in without knowing what my expectations should be so I let myself read spoilers. Glad I did. Knowing then, oddly enough, let me not get annoyed in the theater and go for "this ain't gonna make sense so just enjoy the ride" mode as I would do for a fast and the furious movie. And honestly, there really are a lot of similarities here. So, going on with those expectations, I was able to enjoy it a lot more.

Let's be frank, Terminator and t2 both massively outpaced what they should have been... Popcorn action movies. Cameron caught lightning in a bottle twice. So, expecting more than that out of the sequels is somewhat unfair. Especially with other directors and the fact that they are continuing a story that really was brought to a close after t2.

Anything they do is going to be somewhat contrived in making a sequel. This was better than Genesys and I think, better than salvation and t3. With realistic expectations, I have to say that I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Hamilton did a great job, Arnold was fun. I actually just never felt a connection to the good time traveler. Her and the John Connor replacement neither really got me invested in them. Arnold and Hamilton, however did. All in all, it was genuinely fun, though I agree that a lot of it just felt forced. Knowing that it would be that way going in sure did help though
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Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
So, I was spoiled on the fact that John was killed by the T-800, which pissed me off before even seeing the movie. Still, once that scene happened, as much as it bugged me that it removed all significance from T2 within a matter of minutes, I tried to let it go and just enjoy the movie.

But then the plot contrivances and inconsistencies starting piling up for me.

1. Another Terminator being sent at the time of T2? Ok, I can buy that. (If only because the plot of T2 is built on the exact same premise, which contradicted T1.)

2. Wait. A BUNCH of other Terminators were sent at random points in time? Huh? Ok, now this is getting really hard to accept as it contradicts everything we know about the Terminator franchise.

3. The fact that the T-800 can suddenly pinpoint exactly when and where Terminators will arrive is hugely convenient. (Not to mention that Arnie in T1 would've been able to poinpoint exactly where Kyle Reese arrived, and similarly for the T-1000 in T2.)

4. Ok, no Skynet. But Legion creates almost identical robots, also invents time travel, and then tries the exact same plan that Skynet tried? (And for a random resistance leader that never appears to actually destroy Legion?) Come on...

But for all these huge waves of the hand, I kind of figured going in that these would happen, so I just tossed them aside as best I could.

With all that said, this movie was pretty enjoyable. It was essentially Terminator: The Fate Awakens. The plot is very similar to T1/T2, there are very obvious nods, and they brought back Sarah Connor in the "Han Solo" role for the new, gender-swapped John. (ie Rey)

The action was pretty fantastic. Easily the best setpieces since T2. And I have to say that the new T-1000 was pretty damn cool. He was a lot more menacing than I was expecting from the trailers. He's basically just playing Robert Patrick's T-1000, but the new abilities were pretty slick.

I thought Mackenzie Davis was the best part of the movie. Sarah was badass, and Arnie was solid, but this is her movie.

Overall, this is definitely the best since T2. But, the fact that this is only marginally better than Genisys (which I enjoyed) is bit of a bummer. It's certainly not good enough to build a new franchise off of, which is clearly what was intended. At this point, I don't know if it's even worth trying to reboot this again after two failed attempts. Especially considering we're basically right back where we were after T1, just with a different version of Skynet. (First Order, anyone?)

8/10
The Debt
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So they made a character to shame the audience. No wonder the film bombed.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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AG
PaulSimonsGhost said:

I felt the same way going to see Aliens IV back in the 90's. You're not gonna like the explanation.


Is that the one where she makes the halfcourt shot?
Fat Bib Fortuna
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My problem is that Skynet only has one go-to strategy for defeating the humans. Send a Terminator back to an era where there's a reasonable amount of weaponry that can kill a Terminator and try to kill your target. Is there no Ancestry.com archive at Skynet? Why not send a Terminator back to 1500 and kill John's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandmother when she's tending goats out in the countryside of Scotland? Is her husband going to fight off the Terminator with his walking stick?

Or in lieu of time travel, develop some biological weapons and scorch the earth. I never really understand Skynet's motivation - once all the humans are done, what does it do then? Ask Prof. Falken to play a nice game of chess?

What Skynet really needs to do is hire these two guys to do a floor-to-ceiling look at how they're running the place, who's just taking up space, and start fresh.

Brian Earl Spilner
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This is so awesome.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Terminator/comments/dsal7h/terminator_theme_synth_cover/

And I am now bathing in the gloriousness of the T1 soundtrack.
double aught
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That is awesome. I love the gritty/punk/synth style of The Terminator.
FL_Ag1998
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Although I had reservations based on reviews, my son wanted to see this in the theater and I'm glad he did, because we both genuinely really liked it.

I honestly don't understand why it bombed so hard, other than maybe after the Marvel movies people have such high expectations for simple action movies and movies that are part of a bigger "universe". The complaints you can bring up about the plot (e.g. why does an all-knowing A.I. devise such a simple plot to kill the future leader of the human resistance, etc) were all complaints that were present and valid in the first two Terminator movies. But for some reason NOW we let them ruin the movie?

And why on earth do stupid movies like the F&F franchise get a pass for bad acting, horrible dialogue, contrived plot devices, and impossible nonsensical action sequences while this one gets ripped for it?

I actually thought this had great action sequences. The humor landed really well. The evil terminator was just as menacing as Robert Patrick in T2. And Linda Hamilton kicked ass, Arnold kicked ass, and not only did Mackenzie Davis kick ass but she was hot, too.

And the complaint about it bombing because it was too "woke"? Give me a break. I feel sorry for the lens you apparently view the world through.
bangobango
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FL_Ag1998 said:

Although I had reservations based on reviews, my son wanted to see this in the theater and I'm glad he did, because we both genuinely really liked it.

I honestly don't understand why it bombed so hard, other than maybe after the Marvel movies people have such high expectations for simple action movies and movies that are part of a bigger "universe". The complaints you can bring up about the plot (e.g. why does an all-knowing A.I. devise such a simple plot to kill the future leader of the human resistance, etc) were all complaints that were present and valid in the first two Terminator movies. But for some reason NOW we let them ruin the movie?

And why on earth do stupid movies like the F&F franchise get a pass for bad acting, horrible dialogue, contrived plot devices, and impossible nonsensical action sequences while this one gets ripped for it?

I actually thought this had great action sequences. The humor landed really well. The evil terminator was just as menacing as Robert Patrick in T2. And Linda Hamilton kicked ass, Arnold kicked ass, and not only did Mackenzie Davis kick ass but she was hot, too.

And the complaint about it bombing because it was too "woke"? Give me a break. I feel sorry for the lens you apparently view the world through.


Right or wrong, I think movie goers are wary of popular franchise reboots that appear to replace male leads with female leads.

That being said, maybe Terminator is just not the kind of movie that lends itself to sequels, since none of them after 2 have done well.
cbr
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TCTTS said:

I think it's suuuuuper weird to imply that something like this doesn't have enough white males. That didn't even cross my mind, and I don't know how that would possibly matter or make it better if it did, but whatever. It's just... that sounds... you know. There's a WAY better way to phrase what you're getting at.

But yes, there is a woke-ish element to this movie that's a little too on-the-nose in a certain regard, and might rub the more, shall we say, "sensitive" of the bunch the wrong way. Though, it's not in-your-face or preachy by any means. And it is not political AT ALL, just so we can nip that potential headache of a conversation in the bud. It's just that one of the two main new leads is a Mexican woman, there's a border-crossing element, and a subtle female empowerment theme; three things that certain posters here are known to be... "perceptive' to. But no sane individual could possibly be offended by anything in this movie. If anything, it only builds on the themes established in the first two movies.

As a straight white male, it screams out at you - bombarded from every media. Im all for inclusiveness. Im all for randomness in who jumps off the screen as a hero. But recently its become a full blown agenda from every screen source there is. Huge deal? No. But you cant help but notice it.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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wow, are you getting paid to write the word "agenda" in every thread?
fig96
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It's so weird to me that some folks view every film that even mentions female empowerment or has a female lead as an SJW/liberal/whatever movie.

This film had a female lead...and that's about it.

If you're looking for an agenda in everything you're going to find it, but this was a pretty entertaining action movie that should have done a lot better than it did.
MBAR
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fig96 said:

It's so weird to me that some folks view every film that even mentions female empowerment or has a female lead as an SJW/liberal/whatever movie.

This film had a female lead...and that's about it.

If you're looking for an agenda in everything you're going to find it, but this was a pretty entertaining action movie that should have done a lot better than it did.
Par for the course. It says a lot about the people who complain about "agendas" though. Just because the film empowers women the only reason they think that someone would want to make a movie like that is some SJW agenda. Not because you know, women can be powerful. Its telling how much they view that as a crazy view only someone with an agenda would want to promote.

And really, as far as agendas go, making women seem powerful is supposed to be bad?

Its just bizarre. But like I said, par for this particular course.
Cromagnum
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Shame it's bombing so hard. Hard to believe it couldn't even match Genisys' opening weekend, with Linda Hamilton back.

Still want to check this out before it leaves IMAX. Maybe tomorrow.

And I haven't read any of the reactions yet, but there better be a damn good explanation as to how another Terminator was sent after the events of T2.


There isnt
double aught
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MBAR said:

fig96 said:

It's so weird to me that some folks view every film that even mentions female empowerment or has a female lead as an SJW/liberal/whatever movie.

This film had a female lead...and that's about it.

If you're looking for an agenda in everything you're going to find it, but this was a pretty entertaining action movie that should have done a lot better than it did.
Par for the course. It says a lot about the people who complain about "agendas" though. Just because the film empowers women the only reason they think that someone would want to make a movie like that is some SJW agenda. Not because you know, women can be powerful. Its telling how much they view that as a crazy view only someone with an agenda would want to promote.

And really, as far as agendas go, making women seem powerful is supposed to be bad?

Its just bizarre. But like I said, par for this particular course.
The complaint makes even less sense since Terminator has always had a strong female lead. I guess those SJWs have been infiltrating the series with their wokeness since 1984.
AggieLitigator
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I haven't seen the previous Terminator movies (Original and sequel) in so long that I don't really remember them.

I thoroughly enjoyed Dark Fate.
 
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