Gangnam Style said:

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We need a fresh start plot wise, either go back to the Old Republic time line or a few generations down the line.

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Knights of the Old Republic seems like a no-brainer, with built-in fan interest and some raw source material. But that's probably exactly why it'll never happen.

Agreed (with regards to comments that poor decisions were made day 1, even though I personally liked TFA for what it was). When we heard about a continuation of Star Wars after the events of ROTJ, I can almost guarantee 99% of us immediately started envisioning Luke and wondering what he had been doing. No idea why they green lit an Ep VII that didn't include Luke!


Hell, I'm not even a creative person and I could very easily incorporate Luke into a modified TFA plot. Here's just one lazy attempt:

The Crawl: Luke is troubled when his attempt at a New Jedi Order was foiled when his most promising student goes to the Dark Side and joins the First Order...

Act I: Scene of Kylo Ren and the first order doing bad stuff. Shift to Jakku where we meet a very special girl who is quickly noticed by a resistance smuggler who needs no introduction! They team up and eventually make their way back to the resistance base where Luke & Leia (Han's WIFE!!!) welcome them.

Act II: Luke and Leia introduce Rey to the Force. Luke has renewed faith, the force has brought him somebody extremely powerful to balance out the growing darkness. Ace pilot Poe Dameron is captured during and epic battle and Kylo learns of the resistance's hidden base through mind probe. Finn (Traitor!!!) rescues Poe and they escape in time to warn the resistance of an immediate attack.

Act III: Attack on the resistance base. The audience is shocked when Han Solo confronts the sinister Kylo Ren... in an epic scene we learn Kylo Ren is really Ben Solo, who then immediately kills his father. Newly trained Rey rushes into an epic duel, but she is no match... right when she is about to be overwhelmed, Jedi Master Luke storms in and kicks much ass with his greens saber! A gravely injured Kylo and the first order retreat and regroup at the command of the mysterious Snoke.



You know what would have been great with that kind of approach. Almost everything. We get to see our beloved characters being important all movie long even though Kylo and Rey are the new leads. We are introduced to some strong secondary characters (both good and bad) whose roles can grown across all 3 movies. No need for rehashed super weapons and we now have a really great jumping off point for Ep VIII that could fast forward a bit after the events of VII.

And that's fine. But no one is saying you can't have you're opinion or that you have to pre-emptively fall in line with the general consensus so far. It's a message board and we're simply discussing the state of affairs with all the information currently available, as we do each and every day here. So it just bugs me when people are suddenly like, "The internet is a cesspool. Bunch of morons listening to a bunch of snooty critics."

I'm curious and genuinely want to know how many of those critics who are gushing over it actually grew up with Star Wars from the beginning. I saw Star Wars Eps 4, 5 and 6 in the theater as a kid and have a certain level of expectation of where I'd prefer the story to go. That said, it's JJ and from a pure cinematography standpoint I'll probably enjoy the piss out of it. Also cause of the insane amount of fan fair they claim they'll be throwing.

My concern isn't with the "critics" - there are some people out there with Star Wars opinions that I highly respect that have been less than kind to this film. There is also the reverse. At the end of it all, I'm going to go home and watch the Mandalorian, and by tomorrow morning, I'll say "**** it" and be dying with anticipation all day.

TCTTS said:

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A couple, sure. But most of these read like rationale people giving sound reasoning for why this movie didn't work for them.

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aren't these the same people who could barely contain themselves at how great TLJ was?

Buck Compton said:

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TCTTS said:

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And that's fine. But no one is saying you can't have you're opinion or that you have to pre-emptively fall in line with the general consensus so far. It's a message board and we're simply discussing the state of affairs with all the information currently available, as we do each and every day here. So it just bugs me when people are suddenly like, "The internet is a cesspool. Bunch of morons listening to a bunch of snooty critics."

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Is that what I said when I called the internet a cesspool? I didn't say anything about snooty critics or that the speculation is biased or not based in reality. This movie might suck. It might be super-rushed, lack character development, and be worse than TLJ. I don't know.

The internet is a cesspool because we lack patience or an ability to take information in context. We take a few reactions of a very vocal minority and then draw them out to extremes. Literally there was a post on this thread talking about how botched this movie is by someone who hasn't seen it yet. Then a bunch of people proclaiming "I knew it. this is what I predicted two years ago." patting themselves on the back.

I think you were one of the ones saying this would kill the enthusiasm of the series. To be fair, you might have said "if it fails", but I don't remember. You also said you're now anticipating seeing a trailer for a movie more than the final Star Wars movie in the Skywalker saga. Just two days ago you were debating seeing it twice in 24 hours by going alone before seeing it with your friends. Now you're more excited for a trailer of a movie? Don't you think that's a bit of an overreaction?

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"The internet is a cesspool because we lack patience or an ability to take information in context."

In general, you're absolutely right. But I've been doing this long enough, and know who to trust and who not trust, and who usually jives with my opinion and who doesn't, to have enough context at this point to know that I'm probably going to have the same issues with it that others do. We also have enough context to see where this movie is trending in terms of its Rotten Tomato score compared to the others in the franchise. After 158 reviews, 58% just isn't good. Like, at all. And no, I don't always take RT at face value, and yes, it's ridiculous that TLJ is at 91%, so the numbers/opinions are obviously skewed. But, IMO, we *do* have enough context in that regard to start having the conversations we're having. That, and I've read the leaks. I know the gist of the first two-thirds of the movie, and I felt a tinge of concern back when I first read them. But I also had hope that Abrams would be able to pull it off, or that it would all play better on screen than on the page, and now it's looking like that's just not the case. So, all of these things factored together, I don't think it's weird at all for my anticipation to drop, or that it's too premature to talk about things like Kennedy losing her job over it, especially since we've been having that particular conversation for well over two years now. That's not to say I won't be going into this movie with an open mind - I would love nothing more than to love this movie - but as of now, with all the context we *do* have, the outcome looks bleak, and I think it's ok to react accordingly.

Article 58-10 Offender said:

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TCTTS said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Very few people in the real world (the actual audience) have seen the movie yet.

Now we're already deciding it's going to kill enthusiasm. There are reddit threads destroying the movie. We're deciding who needs to be fired. This is fantastic.

The internet is a cesspool.

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THIS.

It's quite absurd that we're already trashing the movie and saying it's horrible when only 1 of us has seen it and it sounded like he loved it. Back to a point made a few pages back, we put way too much faith and credibility in critics. Why is it we can't wait until we see it and then decide for ourselves? We take what these folks write up for "click value" and believe it at face value. These are the same critics that put TLJ at 91% on RT (and even though I'm still a TLJ fan, it seems the masses as a whole hated it).

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On the other side of the coin, I'm sooooo tired of the cliched, stereotypical opinions people have of critics on this board. As if all critics are of the exact same mold, and all looking for nothing more than clicks instead of, you know, actually having to build and maintain a trust with their audience in order to keep that audience. That, and critics nowadays are so incredibly diverse in their backgrounds, personalities, platforms, and approaches that it seems so absurd to me to constantly try and crowd them under the same umbrella. Also, way more than just critics have seen the movie by now. Screenings have basically been happening non-stop for a well over a day now and all types of Average Joes are attending and weighing in. I agree that I others are probably placing too much weight on reactions so far, but the denial of the reactions so far is just as weird to me.

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I'm soooooo tired of your cliched, stereotypical criticism of our criticizing the critics as if all of us are of the exact same mold and all looking for nothing but blue stars instead of, you know, actually having to build and maintain a texags fan base.


by and large critics are a bunch of coattail riding clowns jerking each other off.

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Good one.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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TCTTS said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Very few people in the real world (the actual audience) have seen the movie yet.

Now we're already deciding it's going to kill enthusiasm. There are reddit threads destroying the movie. We're deciding who needs to be fired. This is fantastic.

The internet is a cesspool.

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THIS.

It's quite absurd that we're already trashing the movie and saying it's horrible when only 1 of us has seen it and it sounded like he loved it. Back to a point made a few pages back, we put way too much faith and credibility in critics. Why is it we can't wait until we see it and then decide for ourselves? We take what these folks write up for "click value" and believe it at face value. These are the same critics that put TLJ at 91% on RT (and even though I'm still a TLJ fan, it seems the masses as a whole hated it).

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On the other side of the coin, I'm sooooo tired of the cliched, stereotypical opinions people have of critics on this board. As if all critics are of the exact same mold, and all looking for nothing more than clicks instead of, you know, actually having to build and maintain a trust with their audience in order to keep that audience. That, and critics nowadays are so incredibly diverse in their backgrounds, personalities, platforms, and approaches that it seems so absurd to me to constantly try and crowd them under the same umbrella. Also, way more than just critics have seen the movie by now. Screenings have basically been happening non-stop for a well over a day now and all types of Average Joes are attending and weighing in. I agree that I others are probably placing too much weight on reactions so far, but the denial of the reactions so far is just as weird to me.

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I agree that critics are diverse. I primarily have a few average Joes on YouTube that I follow that I tend to agree with. But the critics that write for Forbes, Variety, etc. I cannot stand.

I read their reviews of Star Wars and in it they made the following statements:

"The villainous forces of "Star Wars" were always a sci-fi variation on 20th-century fascism, and that made them, at the time, seem ominous but historically distant. But in "The Rise of Skywalker," the fascism looms, for the first time, as something more real; it's what we're now facing."

"It represents the cultural theft of Star Wars from today's kids by today's arrested-development-stricken adults. Star Wars was a franchise first and foremost for children, and the kids who grew up with Harry Potter, The Hunger Games and the MCU have embraced harsh truths and challenging narratives. Lucasfilm and Disney's The Rise of Skywalker feels explicitly crafted for the "Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars!" and "George Lucas ruined my childhood!" demographics, right down to its near erasure of Kelly Marie Tran's Rose Tico. It's bad enough that adults no longer see grown-up movies in theaters, but now yesterday's geeks who have taken over pop culture feel entitled to have the kid-friendly franchises aimed at them as well. "

"It's not just that Rise of Skywalker undoes Last Jedi's "it's not your franchise anymore" metaphorsaimed at a generation that grew up loving Star Wars and then allowed two Palpatine-ish leaders (George W. Bush and Trump) to come into powerfor generic "don't worry, Star Wars is still the best!" fan bait."

WTF THIS IS WHY PEOPLE HATE CRITICS.

People with English degrees from Bowling Green interjecting their political commentary and cultural views into movie reviews. Gag.

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In 100% agreement that some of these people suck and that these excerpts are, indeed eye-roll-inducing. I'm not saying critics *don't* suck. I'm simply saying that there are WAY more level-headed critics out there than these blowhards, from good sites not at all like the ones you named. And I would argue that the vast majority of the opinions I've posted in this thread are from the latter.

why would you go out of your way to find something like this? it's objectively garbage....so not sure what your point is.

This thread basically dies tomorrow anyway, and it's going to be super interesting to see what the spoiler thread becomes in its place...

TCTTS said:

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Article 58-10 Offender said:

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TCTTS said:

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FTACO97 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Very few people in the real world (the actual audience) have seen the movie yet.

Now we're already deciding it's going to kill enthusiasm. There are reddit threads destroying the movie. We're deciding who needs to be fired. This is fantastic.

The internet is a cesspool.

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THIS.

It's quite absurd that we're already trashing the movie and saying it's horrible when only 1 of us has seen it and it sounded like he loved it. Back to a point made a few pages back, we put way too much faith and credibility in critics. Why is it we can't wait until we see it and then decide for ourselves? We take what these folks write up for "click value" and believe it at face value. These are the same critics that put TLJ at 91% on RT (and even though I'm still a TLJ fan, it seems the masses as a whole hated it).

---

On the other side of the coin, I'm sooooo tired of the cliched, stereotypical opinions people have of critics on this board. As if all critics are of the exact same mold, and all looking for nothing more than clicks instead of, you know, actually having to build and maintain a trust with their audience in order to keep that audience. That, and critics nowadays are so incredibly diverse in their backgrounds, personalities, platforms, and approaches that it seems so absurd to me to constantly try and crowd them under the same umbrella. Also, way more than just critics have seen the movie by now. Screenings have basically been happening non-stop for a well over a day now and all types of Average Joes are attending and weighing in. I agree that I others are probably placing too much weight on reactions so far, but the denial of the reactions so far is just as weird to me.

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I'm soooooo tired of your cliched, stereotypical criticism of our criticizing the critics as if all of us are of the exact same mold and all looking for nothing but blue stars instead of, you know, actually having to build and maintain a texags fan base.


by and large critics are a bunch of coattail riding clowns jerking each other off.

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Good one.

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Thank you.

Just thinking about the trailers - I think my favorite part is when all the storm troopers get blown away but Kylo is able to crouch and sticks in place.

Simple? Yes. But what a very cool visual. Don't overthink the fun. This is going to be a great movie experience.

I don't need the critics reviews, I could tell from the fanboy reviews that this wasn't going to be good. All of them if you read between the lines hinted at this. Even Stryker, who sounded like he had the most amazing experience of all time, basically alluded to these problems.


The redeeming thing is it sounds like it will be entertaining. And we'll all see it myself included. Here's to hoping its a fun movie like TFA.

Yup, pretty much.

I expect to not like some or perhaps a lot of this. I won't even like every decision. But I have little doubt that there will be a handful of "fan service" things that I will really love about this flick.

My only hope is that those really awesome moments outshine the lesser ones. I definitely agree that the good outweighing the bad will vary person to person.

tk for tu juan said:

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jr15aggie said:

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Calling it now... all the force ghosts make an appearance at the end to help combat the dark side. Luke, Leia, Anakin, Obi-Wan, & Yoda... aw hell, even the OG Ghost Qui-Gon shows up!!!

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Don't forget Mace Windu, mother******

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Looks like I have to kill a *****.