*** STAR WARS: THE RISE OF SKYWALKER ***

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Belton Ag
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AG
TCTTS said:

By the way, surely Han and Leia told Kylo that Vader turned to the light in the end, right? I've never really understood why Kylo "worships" Vader the way he does, given that Vader denied - and essentially even destroyed - the dark side in the end.
I always wondered what Kylo meant in TFA trailer when he said (addressing the melted Vader helmet) he would "finish what you started."

I can't remember if that scene was cut for the theatrical release but I know it made the trailer. Seems to me now that would have been a super important thing for us as the audience to know. Maybe it will be addressed in TROS.
twilly
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AG
All this just reinforces my belief that while everyone thinks Kylo is such a badass, in the end he's just a useful idiot in a grander scheme.
redline248
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Kylo is definitely an idiot, but I don't think there is a grander scheme. I mean, surely they won't throw away him as the primary antagonist in the final film, right?


Right?
TCTTS
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Expanding on what I said earlier, I think Kylo will still be the primary antagonist, but Palpatine will likely be the "big bad" that Kylo (and Rey) ultimately have to defeat in the end. I think it will be revealed that Palpatine's ghost or essence or whatever will have done a certain amount of string pulling - as the *true* threat in the end - but I don't think it'll be as extreme as somehow using Kylo all along or anything like that.
amercer
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I'm going to be disappointed if they go the "possession of a good guy by the big bad" route with Kylo.

Just let him be bad, and let Rey end him.
TCTTS
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My prediction:

- Kylo is the primary antagonist for 90% of the film.

- Kylo and Rey have one, final, climactic battle, but it's either around the halfway or 3/4 mark, not at the end.

- In some form or fashion, Palpatine is lurking in the shadows throughout the film.

- There's a huge reveal via Palpatine that rocks everyone's world, causing Kylo to question everything he's ever known. This is also tied to some big, emotional beat.

- The final, climactic fight is Kylo and Rey teaming up to defeat Palpatine, in whatever form Palpatine exists. In this fight, however, Kylo ultimately sacrifices himself. He dies, but dies nobly, much like Vader. Rey doesn't kill Kylo. It'll be very ROTJ-esque.
amercer
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I mean, I love Return of the Jedi as much as the next guy, but if JJ does another remake people's heads will explode

You're probably right though
TCTTS
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I think it'll be different enough. But the broad beats of TFA matched ANH, and the broad beats of TLJ matched TESB. So there's no reason not to expect that the broad beats of TROS will likely match ROTJ.
Urban Ag
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TCTTS said:

My prediction:

- Kylo is the primary antagonist for 90% of the film.

- Kylo and Rey have one, final, climactic battle, but it's either around the halfway or 3/4 mark, not at the end.

- In some form or fashion, Palpatine is lurking in the shadows throughout the film.

- There's a huge reveal via Palpatine that rocks everyone's world, causing Kylo to question everything he's ever known. This is also tied to some big, emotional beat.

- The final, climactic fight is Kylo and Rey teaming up to defeat Palpatine, in whatever form Palpatine exists. In this fight, however, Kylo ultimately sacrifices himself. He dies, but dies nobly, much like Vader. Rey doesn't kill Kylo. It'll be very ROTJ-esque.
Maybe that has all along been the purpose of the vaunted, yet only seen for mere seconds, Knights of Ren. I really don't like this idea of bringing Palpatine back. But it almost is starting to feel like this installment is somewhat of a quest, not unlike End Game. As if both sides are searching for something that somehow brings back Palpatine. Maybe these Sith Troopers are some sort of clones bred to secure a facility by which Palpatine was cloned and "force ghost" could possess when the time was right. When Palps comes online so to speak, he reveals to Kylo that it was his plan all along that he would deliver the First Order to him. The KOR flip for Palps and then Kylo actually finishes what Vader started and kills Palpatine once and for all, thus ending the Sith for good.

getting wonky, I'll hang up and listen
redline248
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If the movie is made well, fine, but I personally hate the idea Palpatine needing to be defeated to free the galaxy from evil, again.
Urban Ag
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redline248 said:

If the movie is made well, fine, but I personally hate the idea Palpatine needing to be defeated to free the galaxy from evil, again.
me too

still hope this is just a well done, purposeful, misdirection
bobinator
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I like the idea more that it's the culmination of some kind of backup plan that Palpatine put in place before he died. Or even that he's somehow using the force from the 'afterlife.'

I still have a hard time seeing a way that Palpatine ends up actually alive in any shape or form that isn't insane/dumb/etc.

But who knows.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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TCTTS said:

I think it'll be different enough. But the broad beats of TFA matched ANH, and the broad beats of TLJ matched TESB. So there's no reason not to expect that the broad beats of TROS will likely match ROTJ.
Just as long as a significant portion of the movie does not feature characters readily available on toy shop shelves.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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This is a really long post, I apologize if you read the whole thing.

Palpatine somehow cheating death or returning from beyond the grave cheapens everything that both Luke and Anakin sacrificed and worked for in the end of ROTJ. I would have a hard time liking something that undoes the pivotal moment of the first 6 films.

Palpatine possessing someone else through some kind of artifact is a straight-up rip-off of the video game Jedi Academy when the Sith Lord Marka Ragnos does the same thing to the game's big bad Tavion.

If you've read the new canon book Bloodlines, Leia's secret that Vader is her father gets revealed in an extremely public way while Ben Solo is out touring the galaxy with Luke looking for Jedi artifacts or something. They don't show him finding out, but he does find out that way. Why neither she nor Luke bothered telling him before that (he's about 15 years old when the revelation happens) I have no idea, but it clearly affects him. In the novelization of TFA, Snoke and Kylo talk about Vader's weakness and how it cost the Empire everything when he turned against Palpy.

Those 2 pieces of info, neither of which is obvious if you haven't really delved into the stuff outside the movies, could make for a plausible situation in which whatever remains of Palpatine uses whatever the plot is to lure Kylo Ren to him, hoping to revenge himself against both Luke and Anakin by making Kylo Ren into what he had always wanted Vader to be - the ultimate Sith, indestructible, un-turnable. Maybe this version of Palpy even cuts him the same deal - learn from me and I'll teach you how to live forever.

Perhaps you see a Palpatine-powered Kylo Ren just going berzerk with the Force, killing his own Knights of Ren and members of the Resistance (preferably cutting Rose's head off), and being pulled back to the light by apparitions of the people who loved him most in life - and a cameo by his grandfather pre-Vader.

That would be a huge crowd pleaser of course, Anakin, Luke, Kylo, and Palpatine all on the same screen, and could also be comedy gold like this:

Ghost Luke: "You won't corrupt him. He has too much of his father in him."

Ghost Palp: "You mean the father he ran through with his lightsaber like a knife through hot butter?"

Ghost Luke: "Oh yeah, I had the Force turned off at that point."

Ghost Anakin: "We meet again, Sheev. The last time I was but the learner, now I am also blue and glowy."

Ghost Luke (snorting laughter): "Are you seriously telling me his name is Sheev?"

Ghost Palp: "You are no match for me. Lord Kylo will be more powerful than either of you!"

Ghost Luke: "I really wish I had a time machine right now to go back to the Death Start so I could say, 'You've failed, Sheev. I am a Jedi like my father before me."

Ghost Anakin (giggling uncontrollably): "One time on my Star Destroyer, when I called him on the holoprojector, Captain Needa bet me 5,000 Republic dataries that I wouldn't say "What is thy bidding, Sheev?" He zapped the bejesus out of me with his Force lightning, but it was so worth."

Ghost Palp: "Silence! At least I didn't grow up with a girl's name." <imitates Padme> "Oh Ani, you're so brave the way you murdered all those Tusken women and children!"

Ghost Anakin: "Uh, did you see her outfits back then? I was hitting that from Geonosis to Mustafar and back. She could have called me Jar Jar for all I cared as long as got busy with me. What about you, Sheev? You ever even seen a girl naked in all your years? And don't say Mara Jade, cuz that canon is gone."

Ghost Luke: "That hurts, dad."





redline248
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I don't know why you apologized for that
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Bravo!
10thYrSr
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That sith trooper looks a lot like Cardinal from the recent Phasma book.



Maybe related?
PatAg
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Rey will sacrifice herself for Kylo, and he retires to a small, off the beaten path planet.
twilly
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

TCTTS said:

I think it'll be different enough. But the broad beats of TFA matched ANH, and the broad beats of TLJ matched TESB. So there's no reason not to expect that the broad beats of TROS will likely match ROTJ.
Just as long as a significant portion of the movie does not feature characters readily available on toy shop shelves.


You were saying?
Fat Bib Fortuna
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twilly said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

TCTTS said:

I think it'll be different enough. But the broad beats of TFA matched ANH, and the broad beats of TLJ matched TESB. So there's no reason not to expect that the broad beats of TROS will likely match ROTJ.
Just as long as a significant portion of the movie does not feature characters readily available on toy shop shelves.


You were saying?
What a disgusting looking slug.
Oh wait, that's Greg Grunberg.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Was thinking ewoks. WTF is that slug?
Flashdiaz
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this guy's dad:

Duncan Idaho
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Anyone else watch the redlettermedia prediction video?

Mike's terrible prediction is that they introduce (reintroduce for Rebels fans) force time travel.

I agree with rich. It is such a terrible idea I can see them doing it.
vwbug
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Just watched it - totally think the time travel will happen after watching that video
Render
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I'm surprised you're recommending redlettermedia on this thread of all places.
Duncan Idaho
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Huh? Have always enjoyed those guys.

They are one of the few youtube critics that judge these franchises honestly.
Duncan Idaho
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I would be perfectly happy in life being a Greg Grunberg, a Jason mewes, or any of these other guys that just get parts because they are someone's friend
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Duncan Idaho said:

I would be perfectly happy in life being a Greg Grunberg, a Jason mewes, or any of these other guys that just get parts because they are someone's friend

Oh I would too, I have my daydream about winning The Force for Change contest where I get to visit the set and JJ Abrams is so impressed with my knowledge of the movies that he gives me a speaking part.

This has replaced by early 2000s daydream when I bump into Natalie Portman at a Starbucks and pretend like I don't recognize her from the prequels until we're well into the dating process.
ja86
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Duncan Idaho said:

Anyone else watch the redlettermedia prediction video?

Mike's terrible prediction is that they introduce (reintroduce for Rebels fans) force time travel.

I agree with rich. It is such a terrible idea I can see them doing it.
an Ewok death cult would be awesome....
TCTTS
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Finally had a chance to watch the RedLetter Media video (embedded below) and man, I love these guys so much. They not only continuously crack me up, but they're always so spot-on on the their Star Wars takes. The Last Jedi is very much split into "critics love it" / "fans hate it" and even the critics I like are snobs about it. But Mike and Rich always know exactly what they're talking about, are smart as hell when it comes to story, and they have no qualms about talking sh*t on TLJ in this video, which is so refreshing coming from public figures such as themselves (since, again, a lot of public figures/critics treat TLJ-haters like sexist racists or something).

As for the actual predictions, I'm sold on the time travel. I tried to pitch roughly Mike's same take in this very thread a while back (based on Muck's inside info), but it never really gained any traction. So I not only feel somewhat vindicated now, I'm all in. That said, A) this was all before Endgame showed us how well time travel could be done - the idea of actually revisiting past scenes and what not - and B) the thought never even crossed my mind about the time travel potentially setting up future movies in the past, such as the Benioff & Weiss trilogy. I don't know that it's necessarily a good idea, but at this point I'm very much in the Mike/Rich/Abrams "**** it" camp. I just want something entertaining, and even though time travel in a Star Wars movie would feel like an Endgame ripoff, it could be fun as hell to revisit old Star Wars scenes through a new lens...

PatAg
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So they focus a lot on Chris Terrior writing Justice League and Batman v Superman, but he also wrote Argo.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Guess that explains my friend randomly texting me that last night.

I responded the exact same way.
PatAg
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that being said, Rian Johnson blew it and PJ Tucker is still dribbling
PatAg
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So I just saw the deleted scenes for the first time, and good god
Liquid Wrench
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Deleted from what?
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