It is definitive that the Force created Anakin. Not a Sith, not the dark side of the Force, just the Force. From a certain point of view.

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Ha, I'm just going off of the definitive statement YOU made that clearly wasn't definitive. We don't know how Anakin was created. None of the movies have answered that question. "Virgin birth" doesn't exclude Palaptine tampering in some way. That's all I'm saying. A poster made a claim that Anakin was created by the dark side. And then you answered with a definitive "No he wasn't." My only point is that your statement is just as arbitrary as his statement, because we don't know for sure yet.

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Because from a canonical stand point, he wasn't. And until that changes in some fashion in IX, he still wasn't.

Seems like a proper stance to take on something that has been shown in canon in one way and hasn't been definitively shown to be factually incorrect.

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I'm confused. Where, in the past eight movies, has it either been definitively shown or a character has definitively said that Palpatine didn't have a hand in creating Anakin? I'm genuinely asking.

Ag Since 83 said:

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Canonically it's also been stated (by Obi-Wan to Maul) that Luke is the Chosen One so who the hell knows

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I mean, you saw ROTJ right?

The prophecy did come to pass. Anakin just wandered in the "desert" of the dark side for a few years/decades.

redline248 said:

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It just hit me, the current legacy of some of our favorite characters are the failures of Han/Leia as parents and of Luke as a teacher.

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That is not acceptable

Sidious does a slow head turn when telling the tale of Darth Plagueis and says he learned to influence the midichlorians and "even create life" while staring at Anakin when he's been facing forward the whole rest of their conversation.

That's pretty clearly some evidence. It's not like absolute proof, but is a pretty heavy wink no?

I'm just saying Luke clearly didn't fit the description of the prophecy, yet Obi-Wan was willing to consider him the chosen one. So it's all negotiable.

TCTTS said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Ha, I'm just going off of the definitive statement YOU made that clearly wasn't definitive. We don't know how Anakin was created. None of the movies have answered that question. "Virgin birth" doesn't exclude Palaptine tampering in some way. That's all I'm saying. A poster made a claim that Anakin was created by the dark side. And then you answered with a definitive "No he wasn't." My only point is that your statement is just as arbitrary as his statement, because we don't know for sure yet.

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Because from a canonical stand point, he wasn't. And until that changes in some fashion in IX, he still wasn't.

Seems like a proper stance to take on something that has been shown in canon in one way and hasn't been definitively shown to be factually incorrect.

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I'm confused. Where, in the past eight movies, has it either been definitively shown or a character has definitively said that Palpatine didn't have a hand in creating Anakin? I'm genuinely asking.

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You are the movie guru around here. From a storytelling standpoint, if a movie never shows or talks about something, it doesn't exist in that movie's reality.

bobinator said:

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Sidious does a slow head turn when telling the tale of Darth Plagueis and says he learned to influence the midichlorians and "even create life" while staring at Anakin when he's been facing forward the whole rest of their conversation.

That's pretty clearly some evidence. It's not like absolute proof, but is a pretty heavy wink no?

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He also told Anakin they would find a way to stop someone from dying. He was full of sh-t

redline248 said:

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It just hit me, the current legacy of some of our favorite characters are the failures of Han/Leia as parents and of Luke as a teacher.

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This is why I think Rey is no one. The whole saga is basically a series of Skywalkers trying and failing. She, an outsider, is going to end the saga.

jokershady said:

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4stringAg said:

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What is that being welded right after the Kylo light saber clip?

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looks like Kylos helmet

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That's what I thought but it passed kind of quick so wasn't sure.

redline248 said:

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TCTTS said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Ha, I'm just going off of the definitive statement YOU made that clearly wasn't definitive. We don't know how Anakin was created. None of the movies have answered that question. "Virgin birth" doesn't exclude Palaptine tampering in some way. That's all I'm saying. A poster made a claim that Anakin was created by the dark side. And then you answered with a definitive "No he wasn't." My only point is that your statement is just as arbitrary as his statement, because we don't know for sure yet.

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Because from a canonical stand point, he wasn't. And until that changes in some fashion in IX, he still wasn't.

Seems like a proper stance to take on something that has been shown in canon in one way and hasn't been definitively shown to be factually incorrect.

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I'm confused. Where, in the past eight movies, has it either been definitively shown or a character has definitively said that Palpatine didn't have a hand in creating Anakin? I'm genuinely asking.

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You are the movie guru around here. From a storytelling standpoint, if a movie never shows or talks about something, it doesn't exist in that movie's reality.

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I'm so confused right now. Whatever logic you're referring to here makes absolutely no sense. I'm literally asking what caused you to DEFINITIVELY state that Palpatine didn't create Anakin.

I don't think he's lying per se about that, I think he does believe he either has or can learn that power.

TCTTS said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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TCTTS said:

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Ha, I'm just going off of the definitive statement YOU made that clearly wasn't definitive. We don't know how Anakin was created. None of the movies have answered that question. "Virgin birth" doesn't exclude Palaptine tampering in some way. That's all I'm saying. A poster made a claim that Anakin was created by the dark side. And then you answered with a definitive "No he wasn't." My only point is that your statement is just as arbitrary as his statement, because we don't know for sure yet.

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Because from a canonical stand point, he wasn't. And until that changes in some fashion in IX, he still wasn't.

Seems like a proper stance to take on something that has been shown in canon in one way and hasn't been definitively shown to be factually incorrect.

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I'm confused. Where, in the past eight movies, has it either been definitively shown or a character has definitively said that Palpatine didn't have a hand in creating Anakin? I'm genuinely asking.

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I did edit my post a tad, but Qui-Gon was the one to theorize that the midi-chlorians (thanks again Lucas) which iirc was on screen in TPM after he checks Anakin's blood. Nothing on screen or in canon publications has contradicted that to my knowledge.

As I said in my post, the theories involving Plagiues or Sidious have come from the fans. Which is why I still side with the other poster's definitive stance on how it's been presented in canon.

bobinator said:

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Sidious does a slow head turn when telling the tale of Darth Plagueis and says he learned to influence the midichlorians and "even create life" while staring at Anakin when he's been facing forward the whole rest of their conversation.

That's pretty clearly some evidence. It's not like absolute proof, but is a pretty heavy wink no?

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Bingo. Seems to me there's more evidence that Palpatine did do something than didn't. I'm genuinely to curious as to why a few posters are suddenly going, "No, he couldn't have!"

But nothing other than that vague reference and a prophecy has been definitively presented in canon. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Why couldn't Palpatine have been the reason for the high midi-chlorian count? I'm not saying he IS the reason, I'm just wondering how you guys are so sure he's NOT? My only point is that none of us know for sure yet. And you guys seem to be saying, "Actually, we do know for sure because... canon." And then I ask, "What canon." And then your answers seem to be references to a couple of vague in-movie statements?

Why wouldn't a supposed being created by a powerful Sith, using the dark side, not be twisted and evil from day 1? Would it even have the capacity to turn to light?

He can create a life, not create a personality. Plenty of good people raise horrible kids and plenty of horrible people somehow raise good kids.

So he could "infiltrate" the Jedi? IF Palpatine created Anakin, the idea is that Anakin would - hopefully - turn out be a wolf in sheep's clothing. Everyone thinks Anakin is this all-powerful good guy - and he is, at first - but Palpatine is slowly but surely working to turn him, which was the plan all along. So that he could catch everyone off guard, which is his M.O. I mean, this is pretty basic stuff fans have talked about for years and years. And again, I'm not saying it's true. I'm just saying that we don't know for sure yet.

So do people think Palpatine has been alive the whole time calling shots for the First Order from the ruins of the Death Star? (i.e. was Palpatine behind Snoke)?

Or do most people think this is going to be some type of Palpatine spirit/ghost?

bobinator said:

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Sidious does a slow head turn when telling the tale of Darth Plagueis and says he learned to influence the midichlorians and "even create life" while staring at Anakin when he's been facing forward the whole rest of their conversation.

That's pretty clearly some evidence. It's not like absolute proof, but is a pretty heavy wink no?

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You don't think he could have just been full of it and saying what he knew Anakin wanted to hear?
It never even really occurred to me what you are suggesting was even an option, which it definitely could be. I don't really like the idea, but it's not the worst either.

I actually don't think he's alive at all, I just think he's reaching out from beyond the grave so to speak because he created the Skywalkers. So his influence is still being felt.

I think we might see him in a flashback or something but I don't think he's actually alive.

I feel like we will see a force apparation of his at the site of the wreckage and it can only be there for some reason, unlike yoda and obiwan.

I do think that's part of it. He's definitely implying to Anakin that only he can give him a way to save Padme. But that doesn't mean he's lying about it.

TCTTS said:

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But nothing other than that vague reference and a prophecy has been definitively presented in canon. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Why couldn't Palpatine have been the reason for the high midi-chlorian count? I'm not saying he IS the reason, I'm just wondering how you guys are so sure he's NOT?

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Simple answer is that the Sith did not play well with each other and are highly manipulative, and that was a story about Darth Plagiues in ROTS about manipulation of the midichloriams, not him (Sidious).

You realize that Plagiues was not Sidious/Palpatine right?

Try again on the tags

PatAg said:

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Try again on the tags

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Finally got it.... url code threw me off

FFS, now we're going to take all 6 of the first movies and throw them in the trash with a "gotcha" reveal in 9?

Y'all really think it's so complicated?

jabberwalkie09 said:

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TCTTS said:

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But nothing other than that vague reference and a prophecy has been definitively presented in canon. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Why couldn't Palpatine have been the reason for the high midi-chlorian count? I'm not saying he IS the reason, I'm just wondering how you guys are so sure he's NOT?

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Simple answer is that the Sith did not play well with each other and are highly manipulative, and that was a story about Darth Plagiues in ROTS about manipulation of the midichloriams, not him (Sidious).

You realize that Plagiues was not Sidious/Palpatine right?

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Yes, I know they're two different people. But you STILL haven't answered my question. Ha, this is legit one of the most baffling SW conversations I've ever had on this board. So the reason Palaptine couldn't have had a part in creating Anakin is because "Sith did not play well with each other"? I don't even understand how that applies to this situation.