bonfarr said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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It's funny. Two years ago, I remember there being arguments on here about how the show was better written than the books. People complained GRRM put in too much detail, and D&D got straight to the point. Now, everything has flipped. I don't see anyone praising the show writing anymore.

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I have just started reading the books and am almost through the first so I can only comment on that book. All of the great dialogue and events in Season 1 were ripped almost verbatim from the book. Every great line from the show originated with Martin. D&D had it easy back then they were probably ****ting themselves when they realized Martin wasn't going to get off his prodigious ass to finish the series.

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Hey now, Martin has good reason! Haven't you heard? The sixth volume of his hit series WILD CARDS (tm) is soon to arrive?

Haven't heard of it? Yeah... nobody has. Dudes a dewsh of the highest degree.

AustinAg2K said:

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It's funny. Two years ago, I remember there being arguments on here about how the show was better written than the books. People complained GRRM put in too much detail, and D&D got straight to the point. Now, everything has flipped. I don't see anyone praising the show writing anymore.

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I really find it hard to believe anyone said the show was better written.

Check out the "pantsers vs. plotters" twitter post several pages ago. Really summed up the shift in the show's personality well. And I think the seasons based on the books did a great job of capturing the best of George RR Martin's "pantser" skills, while cutting out a ton of the meandering, ultimately pointless side trips that his writing included that tends to be part and parcel with a pantser.

I even think "it's rushed" is oversimplifying it. It's only rushed because of what they've decided we do and don't need to spend time on.

The perfect example is the second episode of this season. An entire episode of character development setting up the Battle of Winterfell. We see Brienne become a Knight, Arya gets some with Gendry, Missandei and Grey Worm decide they're going to vacation in Florida when they retire, etc, etc.

We spent an entire episode seemingly closing character arcs... and then basically none of those people died. So what was the point of all of those scenes? Arya is still basically who she was before, Grey Worm and Missandei had a touching boat moment two episodes later anyway.

It's just odd at times what we do spend time on that ends up not really being important, and what we don't spend much time on that does end up being important.

PatAg said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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It's funny. Two years ago, I remember there being arguments on here about how the show was better written than the books. People complained GRRM put in too much detail, and D&D got straight to the point. Now, everything has flipped. I don't see anyone praising the show writing anymore.

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I really find it hard to believe anyone said the show was better written.

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https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2959263/1

SAtxag16 said:

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StringerBell said:

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I thought they covered the night kings origin fairly well

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I think people were just hoping that there was more to him than just wanting to bring "The Long Night".

Honestly not sure how much of that letdown was on D&D vs. fans just overtheorizing. I think the show and it's bad guys had just been so much more nuanced up until that point that it was a bit disappointing that all the NK wanted was to kill everyone.

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imo the 'overthinking english teacher' version is that the night king is only there to show that people are ****ty, and their ****ty, petty games never stop, even when armageddon is approaching.

many would rather everything they love die in the zombie apocalypse than cooperate and risk losing an inch in 'the game of thrones'

and even after surviving the zombie apocalypse together, they are already scheming to kill each other at the afterparty.

bobinator said:

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I even think "it's rushed" is oversimplifying it. It's only rushed because of what they've decided we do and don't need to spend time on.

The perfect example is the second episode of this season. An entire episode of character development setting up the Battle of Winterfell. We see Brienne become a Knight, Arya gets some with Gendry, Missandei and Grey Worm decide they're going to vacation in Florida when they retire, etc, etc.

We spent an entire episode seemingly closing character arcs... and then basically none of those people died. So what was the point of all of those scenes? Arya is still basically who she was before, Grey Worm and Missandei had a touching boat moment two episodes later anyway.

It's just odd at times what we do spend time on that ends up not really being important, and what we don't spend much time on that does end up being important.

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They've essentially made their six episode season a three episode season by wasting half the episodes.

pretty ****ty apocalypse if there was an afterparty

bangobango said:

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SAtxag16 said:

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Urban Ag said:

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SAtxag16 said:

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StringerBell said:

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I thought they covered the night kings origin fairly well

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I think people were just hoping that there was more to him than just wanting to bring "The Long Night".

Honestly not sure how much of that letdown was on D&D vs. fans just overtheorizing. I think the show and it's bad guys had just been so much more nuanced up until that point that it was a bit disappointing that all the NK wanted was to kill everyone.

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I think this is a good point. There seems to be two general groups of fans.

Group A are people that probably typically consume a lot of fantasy and sci-fi. They're more invested in the genre. They have greater expectations and since the series moved off the books it hasn't really been able to deliver the way it did when the writers had a road map.

Group B are people that see this more as a soap opera. They're not nearly as invested in the how and the why, nor do they need everything thing to make perfect sense. They want to see what happens next. They're willing to forgive some inconsistencies and are not nearly as bothered by them.

As an example, Group A types absolutely hated everything about how Rhaegal was killed by ship mounted scorpions. Literally everything about the scene. Logic defied. No one could pull that off. How is Dany so stupid. The whole thing pissed them off. Group B looks at the same scene as thinks yeah, kind of hokey, but the scene was meant to build her anger and frustration and throw in something we didn't see coming. Dany is still arrogant and overconfident and flew herself in to an ambush. Let's move on.

I'm definitely in the Group B. I loved the books because I couldn't stop reading them because I wanted to know what happens next. The show is no different. I'm here to be entertained, not fulfilled necessarily.

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I think I'm probably somewhere in between.

I've really enjoyed the series, certainly one of my all time favorites, but maybe somewhere in the last couple years my expectations got too high. That's easy to do when you've got people theorizing for years about what might happen and I read a good bit of that.

I think one of GRRM's ideas that I really became infatuated with was the relationship between good and evil and how it is much more nuanced than it is often presented in books, movies and tv shows. I always thought that was such a interesting idea that he was exploring and they did a good job of that with characters like Cersei, Tywin, Jamie, the Wildlings, etc.

But then for the Night King, the ultimate villain, to really just be a killing machine wanting to end all human life. I found that pretty disappointing.

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Here is the thing, this could've been done in a way that people would've been more apt to forgive the flaws.

I'll talk about it more when it's all over with, but moving battle with NK ahead of battle at Kings Landing was the fatal flaw in their writing, in my opinion. Every decision that stemmed from that really ruined the conclusion of this story for a lot of fans.

And I am 100% convinced the decision was made bc they did not want to fi many episodes with one or more of the big stars - Jon, Arya, Dany, or Tyrion, dead or gone.

So, they catered to fandom rather than protect the integrity of the story itself. When you do that on something like this, it makes a lot of things fall flat and hollow.

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my little theory fits perfectly.

if you want the night king to be a 'game' player, you develop him and fight him last, and everyone comes together kumbayah.

if you want him to just be ultimate evil/end of the world, then it doesnt matter. he's a neat way to get everyone together and watch them still play ****ty games even though the world is literally ending if they don't cooperate.

SAtxag16 said:

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My Dad Earl said:

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-- I'm still not sure how Jon and Dany fell in love and I don't feel it on screen. In one scene last season, Jon is frustrated and refuses to bend the knee. Next scene with them together, all the sudden he's in a cave making a move on her. Two episodes later, they're in bed together. On the contrary, there was so much depth to Ygritte and Jon and it took a full season or two to realize.


i see this angle, but basically, neither one really has any experience at love. dany loves the only dude alive pretty much, other than her minions, most of whom are cockless, that doesnt want to kill her.

jon has only known one woman ever.

its not like they have a lot of time for romancing either. so this really doesnt bother me too much



- The Night King amounted to nothing at all. Just a bad guy who wanted to kill everybody. Only took one episode to kill him in battle. I don't have an issue with Arya being the hero, but we never get a final answer on the Prince who was Promised. And I'm still not sure what Bran's relationship with the Night King is; only to tell us he wants to wipe out man's memory. That's kind of weak.

again, the only point of the night king was to put everyone in 'we have to deal with the end of the world' mode, and then show how the 'game' of thrones has people still plotting and killing each other even knowing its the end of the world if they dont unite.



- Dany always had it in her to go mad, but I don't understand how she took it to this level. She's always been ruthless, but only to those in power (slavers, Dothraki leadership, those people who stole her dragons in season 2) but never to commoners. They should have started her downfall to madness a season or two ago or should have allowed more episodes to let it develop.


again, short version - they've tried to kill her her whole life, they will succeed if she doesnt totally break the western lords -- and kill the spirit of their subjects, so that no army will have the balls to follow any lord against her ever again. she can't rule from kings landing anyway, its a political snakepit that has killed everyone that tried to rule it.

the only way to ensure that common people wont join their lords against her is BURN EVERYONE.

side note - i think the perfect ending is the one where she is already dying of poison, and did it all for jon.

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bangobango said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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bangobango said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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LMAO. Wow.

It isn't the showing displeasure that's entitled. It's expecting to crowd fund a remake. On a show that they voluntarily watch and pay for.

In your example that's like saying they don't just want a refund for spoiled fruit (which they could see when they picked it out)... but expecting to hire their own people to choose the fruit vendors and inspecting the transport trucks themselves. Just get your refund and go shop somewhere else.

They can cancel.....anytime.

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Again, what about crowdfunding a remake of season 8 makes them entitled? They're offering to pay for the remake? How is that entitlement? Maybe you have a different definition of the word?

Is it stupid? I guess. Is it unlikely to happen? Probably.

Do I think if they keep doing this that eventually somebody will take them up on it? I am expecting that to happen in our lifetime, actually.

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Do you remake everything you don't like? Or try to get it remade?

Entitled means believing you are deserving of special treatment.

Expecting every show you dislike to be remade in a way you like, seems like special treatment to me?

Since that has never occurred before in the history of TV wouldn't it be special treatment (meaning a remake based on fan funding).

Then you have the added issue of let's say they remake it for $100M...... But what if 43% of those who contributed don't like that remake - are they now deserving of a third remake? And if they raise another $100M do we then make a third version that only satisfies another 35% of them for whatever reason. And then they start lawsuits because they didn't make the version Leroy likes and he sues Barbara who suggested some plotline that made it in.

I mean there definitely are remakes made to improve upon originals - but those happen organically within the industry when a writer and director and studio, etc. get on board with it. Often that's modernizing with technology but if they wanted to do it for their own interest, sure why not. Hell Lucas did it with special editions of his own movies (and made them worse).

It's the Joe Bob and Sue Ellen's giving $4.30 to fund a remake (and expecting it to meet their wishes) that cracks me up.

But whatever floats your boat.

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I mean, they're crowdfunding video games, board games, just about anything you can think of, why not eventually movies and tv shows?

In fact, there is some guy on youtube who got permission from Disney to make original content Darth Vader movies and he's actually released one already.

If you and a million other people want it, how exactly does that make you special when you're just like 999,999 other people and you're all willing to pay for it?

I doubt anybody signing that actually expects it to get made, but rather they are using it as an opportunity to express their discontent in the show. You and others act like fans have no right to ever dislike a product, like they just have to take what they get and like it. You did this with TLJ and you've done it on this thread. It is weird.

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WTF??? No. Of course they have a right to dislike it. I'd love to see where I said nobody was allowed to dislike TLJ. There were certainly elements I did not like.

But they do kinda have to take what they get. It's not like a custom ordered show. You get what they give you.

Expressing their discontent through donating for a remake seems odd to me. I hated Matrix Reloaded but I don't care if it ever gets remade much less I am not going to donate for it to be remade.

Vote it down if you care enough on fan sites, don't watch that producer or director, blow it up on your favorite message board, cancel HBO, write your own fan fiction, whatever.

And I really don't care if someone wants to crowd fund a remake either honestly - I just find it odd if not completely futile. Crowd funded things you are talking about have not been $100M major productions and were not because somebody didn't like the turn of one character in E5 of S8 of a show.

But I'm not stopping anyone from doing anything - protest to your hearts content. I support you (without actually doing anything).

AustinAg2K said:

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PatAg said:

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AustinAg2K said:

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It's funny. Two years ago, I remember there being arguments on here about how the show was better written than the books. People complained GRRM put in too much detail, and D&D got straight to the point. Now, everything has flipped. I don't see anyone praising the show writing anymore.

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I really find it hard to believe anyone said the show was better written.

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https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2959263/1

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There was like 2 people who said the show is better.

bobinator said:

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I even think "it's rushed" is oversimplifying it. It's only rushed because of what they've decided we do and don't need to spend time on.

The perfect example is the second episode of this season. An entire episode of character development setting up the Battle of Winterfell. We see Brienne become a Knight, Arya gets some with Gendry, Missandei and Grey Worm decide they're going to vacation in Florida when they retire, etc, etc.

We spent an entire episode seemingly closing character arcs... and then basically none of those people died. So what was the point of all of those scenes? Arya is still basically who she was before, Grey Worm and Missandei had a touching boat moment two episodes later anyway.

It's just odd at times what we do spend time on that ends up not really being important, and what we don't spend much time on that does end up being important.

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It is much easier to edit something down into a smaller, more concise story than it is to develop a thin idea of something into a fully fleshed out story.

cbr said:

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SAtxag16 said:

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My Dad Earl said:

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side note - i think the perfect ending is the one where she is already dying of poison, and did it all for jon.

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P U please no

anybody else looking forward to an increase in work productivity after next week?

This is worse than football season. Sheesh.

bangobango said:

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anybody else looking forward to an increase in work productivity after next week?

This is worse than football season. Sheesh.

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At least with football season I know ahead of time that i'll get my heart broken

Not really humor, but pretty interesting

Teddy Perkins said:

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For those looking to fill the void from GOT ending, I strongly strongly recommend The Last Kingdom. Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix. Season 4 is filming now.

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Destiny is all

In the books it's "Fate is Inexorable", but I suppose TV audiences are too dumb to understand that.

I love The Sword Song / Saxon Chronicles, but I think Bernard Cornwell's best work is his "Arthur the Warlord" series set in 4th Century Wales. I am halfway through the first "Archer Series / Grail Quest" book set during The Hundred Years' War in 14th Century England & France...

In The Last Kingdom the only thing I think they didn't really nail was the casting for Uhtred. The actor playing Alfred is spot on. The actor playing Uhtred is good enough in the part, but doesn't match quite as well with the Uhtred of the books - who is much bigger and stronger and cunning. The also nailed Father Beorca - he's exactly as I imagined him to be.

Episode IV said:

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In the books it's "Fate is Inexorable", but I suppose TV audiences are too dumb to understand that.

I love The Sword Song / Saxon Chronicles, but I think Bernard Cornwell's best work is his "Arthur the Warlord" series set in 4th Century Wales. I am halfway through the first "Archer Series / Grail Quest" book set during The Hundred Years' War in 14th Century England & France...

In The Last Kingdom the only thing I think they didn't really nail was the casting for Uhtred. The actor playing Alfred is spot on. The actor playing Uhtred is good enough in the part, but doesn't match quite as well with the Uhtred of the books - who is much bigger and stronger and cunning. The also nailed Father Beorca - he's exactly as I imagined him to be.

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Yea with Cornwell book series its degrees of greatness. I love them all. I know Sean Bean played Sharpe in some BBC series. I do think Destiny is All probably rolls off the tongue better than Fate is Inexorable, so I'm ok with the change.
I think his Civil War series might play well over here.

I could find it easily if I weren't mobile only right now, but I'm watching all the seasons now for the first time... can anyone do me a huge favor and link previous season threads?

Someone posted earlier that Arya is dead. Now that I've read some people's takes on why they think that is, they may be onto something. It mainly has to do with the horse. It's the horse that the commander of the golden company was riding. The horse that was clearly killed at the beginning of the battle.

Me no likey.

Also, regarding Arya and her return from her time with the faceless men... evidently, some folks say that's not actually Arya but the waif wearing Arya face. I don't buy that one. When she was with Gendry we saw the scar she got when the waif stabbed her.

Apologies for the derail. Here's what I found on Last Kingdom threads.

Preairing hype
Season 1
Pre-season 2
Season 2
Season 3

Thank you!!

Wait those are for The Last Kingdom lol

combat wombat said:

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Someone posted earlier that Arya is dead. Now that I've read some people's takes on why they think that is, they may be onto something. It mainly has to do with the horse. It's the horse that the commander of the golden company was riding. The horse that was clearly killed at the beginning of the battle.

Me no likey.

Also, regarding Arya and her return from her time with the faceless men... evidently, some folks say that's not actually Arya but the waif wearing Arya face. I don't buy that one. When she was with Gendry we saw the scar she got when the waif stabbed her.

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Been hashed out several pages back if you want to take a peak. I don't think there is anyway she is dead.

Anybody posted this yet? Sounds like the guy playing Jaime isn't a fan of D&D, either.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bo1q7k/nikolaj_on_dds_writing/

I've missed a few pages. I can't keep up... I'll get to reading it and lose my spot pick up again and miss several pages. There's just too much getting posted for me to keep up with this thread.

There were book spoiler threads and non-spoiler threads for most GOT seasons. This search should help you find them.

combat wombat said:

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I've missed a few pages. I can't keep up... I'll get to reading it and lose my spot pick up again and miss several pages. There's just too much getting posted for me to keep up with this thread.

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It's impossible to keep up.

I don't think she's dead for simple fact that it doesn't fit previous shows or the books and I don't think they're going to throw a big thing like that in right at the end with just one episode remaining. If they were going to kill Arya I think they'd show her dead in the dirt and/or have somebody find her body, not have her ride off in some afterlife type thing.

bangobango said:

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combat wombat said:

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I've missed a few pages. I can't keep up... I'll get to reading it and lose my spot pick up again and miss several pages. There's just too much getting posted for me to keep up with this thread.

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It's impossible to keep up.

I don't think she's dead for simple fact that it doesn't fit previous shows or the books and I don't think they're going to throw a big thing like that in right at the end with just one episode remaining. If they were going to kill Arya I think they'd show her dead in the dirt and/or have somebody find her body, not have her ride off in some afterlife type thing.

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Also, she is in the preview for the next Episode standing and watching Danny.