****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Zombie Jon Snow
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sounds pretty short. Like 1-2 minutes long. Followed by 78 minutes of black screen.

I like it.
MuckRaker96
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AustinAg2K said:

redline248 said:

Sex Panther said:

Can a book reader give insight into Euron's character from the books? I saw a video on Youtube that said he was way cooler in the description but I didn't actually watch it.

He seems like he could be a cool character, and I actually like the actor who portrays him.
Been a while, but my recollection is that he is way more mysterious (because he was introduced late and has limited page-time, so far). He's been all over the place, cuts the tongues out of his crew b/c he's paranoid, I guess. He collects a lot of relics and "magical" items. Instead of siding with Cersei he instead raids some of the smaller cities on the western coast. He wins the Iron Islands over Yara b/c he has a horn that supposedly can bring dragons under the control of whoever uses it.
It's been a while since I've read the books, but doesn't he also set sail to go win over Dany not Cersei?
Euron shows up after Balon has died to cast his lot in the kIng's moot. His chief opponents are Asha (Yara) and Victarion (not in show). Asha/Yara comes in third and Victarion, another of Balon's brothers seems the favorite until Euron opesn a chest of riches from all over the place, including Valyria, it would seem, based on a Dragon Horn that one of his guys blows and scares the **** out of everyone.

Euron in the books is very sinister, cruel, ambitious, and his henchman are from all over the place, many referred to as "mongrels' and just as many availing to some sort of magic or sorcery. Victarion hates his guts because Euron banged his wife (after which Victarion killed her).

Euron's ambition is to send Victarion to fetch Dany and her dragons to bring them to Westeros where he will marry her and form the alliance to take Westeros. He give Victarion the dragon horn for the trip with the idea that whomever blows it will bind the dragons to his will.

In a preview chapter from TWOW, Euron is seen torturing their other brother, Aeron Damphair, who makes very brief appearances in the show. In that chapter, Euron has a suit of Valyrian steel armor on.
bobinator
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Well it fades back in and we get 78 minutes of Bran, Arya, Sansa and Jon deciding who's going to rule what, laying out a sensible tax plan and prioritizing infrastructure improvements.
Phrasing
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bobinator said:

Well it fades back in and we get 78 minutes of Bran, Arya, Sansa and Jon deciding who's going to rule what, laying out a sensible tax plan and prioritizing infrastructure improvements.
"No, Arya - voluntary face removal surgery will not be covered under the universal health care plan"
annie88
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annie88
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bobinator said:

Well it fades back in and we get 78 minutes of Bran, Arya, Sansa and Jon deciding who's going to rule what, laying out a sensible tax plan and prioritizing infrastructure improvements.


And then Bran jumps out of his wheelchair and says "psych! I could walk this entire time!"
saltydog13
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I thought it's supposed to be Bran waking up after his fall and it's all just a dream
CE Lounge Lizzard
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The ending is an autistic Bran playing with a snow globe with a replica of Winterfell at his home in South Boston.
Zombie Jon Snow
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CE Lounge Lizzard said:

The ending is an autistic Bran playing with a snow globe with a replica of Winterfell at his home in South Boston.


Dany's rampage would look tame compared to mine. I'd burn HBO to the ground and everyone in it.
AustinAg2K
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

sounds pretty short. Like 1-2 minutes long. Followed by 78 minutes of black screen.

I like it.

Only change I would make would be to change the 78 minutes of black screen to 1 minute of black screen and 77 minutes of boobs.
AustinAg2K
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bobinator said:

Well it fades back in and we get 78 minutes of Bran, Arya, Sansa and Jon deciding who's going to rule what, laying out a sensible tax plan and prioritizing infrastructure improvements.
Gotta setup a trade federation in there somewhere. Nothing would subvert expectations for the last episode more than spending 20 minutes hashing out the finer details of a trade deal with Bravos.
c-jags
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AustinAg2K said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

sounds pretty short. Like 1-2 minutes long. Followed by 78 minutes of black screen.

I like it.

Only change I would make would be to change the 78 minutes of black screen to 1 minute of black screen and 77 minutes of boobs.
Pretty sure that's what Bran did during the Battle of Winterfell anyways
MBAR
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jenn96 said:

I noticed that once Dani decided to Smaug out they never showed her face. She could have been laughing, crying, steely resolve, screaming madness - but they didn't show it. I wonder if that was a conscious decision to maintain ambiguity or if they just kind of forgot to show Emilia.

And I feel compelled to give the old dead horse a kick by pointing out that 3 seasons ago I wouldn't have questioned it, I would have assumed there was a good reason not to show her face. Now I'm honestly assuming they didn't care.
They didn't show her individually because she symbolically became the dragon.
Phrasing
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I got lost in all the Dany's turn discussion and wasn't paying attention to Cersei - what were everyone's thoughts on Cersei's death? I was pissed at first that she didn't go out in a blaze of glory or that she wasn't killed by the valanqar, but the more I think about it (and from reading others opinions) I think I am pretty good with it actually.

Her last words (while crying and upset) were something along the lines of:

"I don't want our baby to die"
"I don't want to die"
"Not like this"
"Please don't let me die"

She was truly broken and alone - the last place in the world she wanted to be. This was the worst way she could have gone out in her mind. She was truly afraid. She knew she had lost and that Dany had beaten her at her own game. Qyburn was dead. The Mountain deserted her. Euron was gone. All her scorpions had failed. And Dany had called her bluff on killing innocents and was burning down her home. She knew she was dying and that her child was going to die. She had no one, until Jamie came to try and save her, and even he couldn't. And to top it off, he had already been dealt a fatal blow by the very man she replaced him with.

Her whole world (figuratively the "Red Keep" and everything she had built) was literally crumbling down on top of her, to the point where she died a slow and painful death (in my mind at least) underneath a pile of rubble from the tower she spent her life fighting for. (And somewhat as a result of her and Jamie pushing Bran out of a tower in 01:01).

I don't feel like the last scene really humanized her or tried to sway sympathy for her character at all. It just showed her at her lowest point. All characters have human nature in them, and it's okay to feel sorry for her, even after everything she did. She's human after all. No one in this show is either all good or all bad - it is all about shades of gray.

Now Jamie - I have a harder time figuring out, but that's another discussion.......



MBAR
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I hope Sapochnik gets to show what he can do with a large film budget regarding battle scenes. Dude has really flexed in his GoT episodes.
jenn96
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Maybe because I'm a mom, but Cersei dying terrified and bereft, all of her children dead, knowing that her baby and the only man she ever loved were all going to die was very fitting to me. A big dramatic Plot Point death is what we all wanted and expected, but instead she dies broken and scared. I was okay with it.
CFTXAG10
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jenn96 said:

Maybe because I'm a mom, but Cersei dying terrified and bereft, all of her children dead, knowing that her baby and the only man she ever loved were all going to die was very fitting to me. A big dramatic Plot Point death is what we all wanted and expected, but instead she dies broken and scared. I was okay with it.
Damn. Thats a good point.
Eliminatus
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Phrasing said:

I got lost in all the Dany's turn discussion and wasn't paying attention to Cersei - what were everyone's thoughts on Cersei's death? I was pissed at first that she didn't go out in a blaze of glory or that she wasn't killed by the valanqar, but the more I think about it (and from reading others opinions) I think I am pretty good with it actually.

Her last words (while crying and upset) were something along the lines of:

"I don't want our baby to die"
"I don't want to die"
"Not like this"
"Please don't let me die"

She was truly broken and alone - the last place in the world she wanted to be. This was the worst way she could have gone out in her mind. She was truly afraid. She knew she had lost and that Dany had beaten her at her own game. Qyburn was dead. The Mountain deserted her. Euron was gone. All her scorpions had failed. And Dany had called her bluff on killing innocents and was burning down her home. She knew she was dying and that her child was going to die. She had no one, until Jamie came to try and save her, and even he couldn't. And to top it off, he had already been dealt a fatal blow by the very man she replaced him with.

Her whole world (figuratively the "Red Keep" and everything she had built) was literally crumbling down on top of her, to the point where she died a slow and painful death (in my mind at least) underneath a pile of rubble from the tower she spent her life fighting for. (And somewhat as a result of her and Jamie pushing Bran out of a tower in 01:01).

I don't feel like the last scene really humanized her or tried to sway sympathy for her character at all. It just showed her at her lowest point. All characters have human nature in them, and it's okay to feel sorry for her, even after everything she did. She's human after all. No one in this show is either all good or all bad - it is all about shades of gray.

Now Jamie - I have a harder time figuring out, but that's another discussion.......




This is exactly my take on the matter.

I think everyone is so caught up in wanting a big, flashy, and bloody death that they neglected to think past the simple visuals of her death and felt cheated. On this very thread someone was pissed that no one got to kill Cersei.

Nah, the big bad evil fell to her worst nightmare. It's more nuanced and poetic. But we are the American general populace though.....too nuanced and poetic to even be recognized by most...
Phrasing
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jenn96 said:

Maybe because I'm a mom, but Cersei dying terrified and bereft, all of her children dead, knowing that her baby and the only man she ever loved were all going to die was very fitting to me. A big dramatic Plot Point death is what we all wanted and expected, but instead she dies broken and scared. I was okay with it.
I want my 10 minutes back from writing my post. You explained it 10X better with 1/10th of the words.
bearamedic99
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At least we might get a cool new smoking crater on the opening credits

Do we see Sansa and Bran next week? Will Dany summon Sansa to bend the knee or possibly fly north to face her next greatest rival?

Where has Gendry been? Last seen in Winterfell, did he go to Storm's End?

Will Howland Reed and Strong Belwas pick up Hot Pie on the way to KL?
Eliminatus
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Phrasing said:

jenn96 said:

Maybe because I'm a mom, but Cersei dying terrified and bereft, all of her children dead, knowing that her baby and the only man she ever loved were all going to die was very fitting to me. A big dramatic Plot Point death is what we all wanted and expected, but instead she dies broken and scared. I was okay with it.
I want my 10 minutes back from writing my post. You explained it 10X better with 1/10th of the words.
Oof. Yeah, she covered my own point in a much better way.

I was just *****ing about the gen pop shortsightedness and there I go not reading all the posts before mine...
cbr
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bobinator said:

But the Japanese didn't surrender and THEN we dropped the bomb on them.

It just seems like a huge jump for her character to decide in the course of about five seconds that she needs to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people. That's why it would have been more believable to set up that she was almost hoping they wouldn't surrender with an earlier conversation.

And the 'it was rushed' thing is only a bad excuse. They had PLENTY of time to squeeze in a conversation with Grey Worm or even in that war council for her to make a comment that the people aren't going to surrender.

It's just hard to excuse the things they do spend a lot of time on, and what they don't. Like everything that happened this episode with Arya could have been just as (if not more) effective in about half the time.
Hello, the rest of japan surrendered because we burned their cities. Exact analogy to danarys. The rest of the west will surrender because she burned kl.
Phrasing
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Ha - well, looks like we are all on the same page.....
Body By Fisher
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jenn96 said:

Maybe because I'm a mom, but Cersei dying terrified and bereft, all of her children dead, knowing that her baby and the only man she ever loved were all going to die was very fitting to me. A big dramatic Plot Point death is what we all wanted and expected, but instead she dies broken and scared. I was okay with it.
I'm not a mom (and almost certainly never will be), but I thought her brokenness came across well, as she must've been realizing how wrong and overconfident she had been.
cbr
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AustinAg2K said:

bobinator said:

OI disagree here. I think this was always the idea, which is why it's so tragic. Dany sets out to free the world from oppression, and through a series of decisions and small steps, each of them perfectly logical in the moment, she becomes exactly what she set out to defeat.

She places good people around her to provide honest feedback, creating a council that isn't just full of 'yes-men.' And they fail her.

She tries as hard as possible not to become what she set out to defeat, but she does anyway. She can't avoid it. That's more or less the message of this whole show. You can't overcome evil with kind words and deeds. You make compromises along the way until, without realizing it, you've become no better than those you plan to unseat.

It's a beautifully tragic story, and it's been told perfectly until (for some of us) right at the very end.
What was the logic of burning civilians after she won? There is no logic to it. If the writers had done something to put the civilians between Dany and the throne it would make sense. If the civilians had attacked her, it would have made sense. As the show wrote it, she had won the throne without harming civilians. Her advisers didn't fail her. She makes a conscious choice on her own to turn evil for no reason. I think GRRM will make her character arc be a tragic story, but will do it in a different way. One that is "bitter sweet." Something where she has to make a choice. If she wants to throne, she has to kill civilians/burn the city. The way the show did it, there is nothing bitter sweet about her character. She is just evil now.
Not only was it totally 100% logical, but it was her ONLY chance to live.

She knew it '
Varys knew it
Lady tyrell knew it
Sansa and arya knew it
Cersi knew it.
Everything they all did was in clear recognition of that.

It was foreshadowed 1000 times.

It wasnt evil, anymore than any other character in the show. It was just the rules of the game.
Phrasing
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cbr said:

bobinator said:

It's just hard to excuse the things they do spend a lot of time on, and what they don't. Like everything that happened this episode with Arya could have been just as (if not more) effective in about half the time.
Hello, the rest of japan surrendered because we burned their cities. Exact analogy to danarys. The rest of the west will surrender because she burned kl.
Agree with cbr here on the bomb scenario, but bob's language (in bold) above stood out to me. I wonder if this means she will have a big role in the last episode? I mean they really hammered her character home at the end of that episode. If she really just rode off on a white horse into the sunset and we don't see her again I will have a problem with that. At least show her going back to Gendry or something. But honestly, I hope she is the one that gets a drop on Dany. Jon dies defending Arya, but Arya ends up killing Dany somehow. Sansa on the throne in the end since Arya doesn't want it.
Brian Earl Spilner
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What if Arya finishes the series flying Drogon west to finally see what's west of Westeros?
bobinator
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It seems like everyone else is basically at a place where we can all at least agree that no matter what the writers were going for there, it could have been either set up or played out a little better.

And I've even agreed with you that your scenario makes sense if they would have set that up, but even the writers themselves said that's not what happened. So it seems kind of weird that you're still defending an idea that even the people that make the show said isn't the case.
redline248
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cbr said:

AustinAg2K said:

bobinator said:

OI disagree here. I think this was always the idea, which is why it's so tragic. Dany sets out to free the world from oppression, and through a series of decisions and small steps, each of them perfectly logical in the moment, she becomes exactly what she set out to defeat.

She places good people around her to provide honest feedback, creating a council that isn't just full of 'yes-men.' And they fail her.

She tries as hard as possible not to become what she set out to defeat, but she does anyway. She can't avoid it. That's more or less the message of this whole show. You can't overcome evil with kind words and deeds. You make compromises along the way until, without realizing it, you've become no better than those you plan to unseat.

It's a beautifully tragic story, and it's been told perfectly until (for some of us) right at the very end.
What was the logic of burning civilians after she won? There is no logic to it. If the writers had done something to put the civilians between Dany and the throne it would make sense. If the civilians had attacked her, it would have made sense. As the show wrote it, she had won the throne without harming civilians. Her advisers didn't fail her. She makes a conscious choice on her own to turn evil for no reason. I think GRRM will make her character arc be a tragic story, but will do it in a different way. One that is "bitter sweet." Something where she has to make a choice. If she wants to throne, she has to kill civilians/burn the city. The way the show did it, there is nothing bitter sweet about her character. She is just evil now.
Not only was it totally 100% logical, but it was her ONLY chance to live.

She knew it '
Varys knew it
Lady tyrell knew it
Sansa and arya knew it
Cersi knew it.
Everything they all did was in clear recognition of that.

It was foreshadowed 1000 times.

It wasnt evil, anymore than any other character in the show. It was just the rules of the game.
I just don't understand this post, at all. Especially the bolded part
ja86
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If Jon doesn't take the throne, it goes to Gendry as the legitimized heir to Robert. And to be honest, if Dany goes down, the unsullied and dorthaiki will go out in style taking as many people out as they can. Their loyalty is strictly with Dany.

Now after all the blooding is over and I'm the Dornish prince, I take my army and conquer the 7 kingdoms because all the ruling houses are in shambles with no armies left.

Imagine it..... The sand snakes win it all!!!!!!!
jtstanley4621
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Cersei was all about family. One way or the other, her reputation and her family's legacy is tarnished. She will be remembered for all the bad things she did to take the throne, and in a backwards way how she was responsible for the innocent lives lost, since she refused to surrender. The Lannisters as the world once knew died with her.
Phrasing
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ja86 said:

If Jon doesn't take the throne, it goes to Gendry as the legitimized heir to Robert. And to be honest, if Dany goes down, the unsullied and dorthaiki will go out in style taking as many people out as they can. Their loyalty is strictly with Dany.

Now after all the blooding is over and I'm the Dornish prince, I take my army and conquer the 7 kingdoms because all the ruling houses are in shambles with no armies left.

Imagine it..... The sand snakes win it all!!!!!!!
Or just secede and live it up on the Dornish beaches, drinking Dornish wine taking advantage of the sexually loose morals down there....
redline248
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Dany's first assembly in front of the citizenry should be played to the Rains of Castamere.
smokeythebear
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Ok, I've got a new argument. I think this is all Emilia Clark's fault. She never made me afraid of Dany. She never made me dislike her or feel like she was bordering on psycho. Maise Williams certainly had me wondering if Arya was truly lost. For a good 2 seasons, I thought Arya was indeed insane and Maise did such a great job playing that role. Emilia always made me feel compassionate and understanding of all the "hard" decisions she had to make. Even more so through Season 7 and Season 8 where she REPEATEDLY did ****ing dumb things because that's what her advisors advised her to do. Then she's "in love" with Jon and I like her all over again. Makes the heel turn so much harder to stomach, but it's really because Emilia Clark just didn't do "crazy ex-gf" well enough. Arya had no problem scaring the piss out of me, even after the BoW she's clearly anti-social and acting all crazy like.
cbr
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bobinator said:

It seems like everyone else is basically at a place where we can all at least agree that no matter what the writers were going for there, it could have been either set up or played out a little better.

And I've even agreed with you that your scenario makes sense if they would have set that up, but even the writers themselves said that's not what happened. So it seems kind of weird that you're still defending an idea that even the people that make the show said isn't the case.

I get it. I also recently binge watched the whole show in the last month - so all the foreshadowing is recent to me. That may be the source if some perspective. I have also watched some key episodes twice and REALLY picked it up a lot more. I think on a re-watch my position may take a little easier.

I really havent watched the 'explanations'...but what has been quoted seems more like a 'dont spoil the plot' spin than a 'thats not what happened' spin.

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