you're actually in the minority now - she was always capable of this. it's the most honest the writers have been this season. they pulled no punches. this was the culmination.

MaroonStain said:

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BigTimeAlum said:

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PatAg said:

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Also in the books and show, dont they mention/show Harrenhall having melted tops of battlements and blacked walls and whatnot. Why is it suddenly able to explode towers? I know the answer is "just accept it" but thats not a good enough reason for me.
I think having her take out the ships and scorpions on the wall was great. Of course she would be able to burn up the houses and whatnot

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Haarenhal was the greatest castle ever. A true impenetrable fortress. The walls were too thick to be destroyed. So they melted....

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Twin Towers
Dresden
Chicago
London
Nagasaki
Hiroshima

Fire is rather awful.

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Don't forget Nakatomi tower

Might have been easier to buy the final switch if she hadn't acknowledged to Grey Worm to pull back if the bells ring. Maybe that's the biggest struggle I have with it. As much as I can see her reactions in the past all building to this, to go from that acknowledgement to burning it all while the attack plan played out perfectly with no setbacks just made it odd. Her seeing the castle just didn't do it for me.

But again, I've seen this coming and enjoyed the end result (and the visual we got). My only complaint is that final switch could have been set up better.

TCTTS said:

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I wonder how long this tweet stays up, from one of Hollywood's biggest producers...

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Imagine the media firestorm if the male writers included a brief line from one of her maiden's saying, "the queen shows red, her cycle has begun".

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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Quote:

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It was always there - she always resorted to ignoring advice and torching everyone. ALWAYS


1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons

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Not crazy. She knew she could withstand it, and was trying to earn her position and respect back.

Quote:

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2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive

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Self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

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3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest

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Smart, not crazy.

Quote:

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4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out

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Again, not crazy.

Quote:

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5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.

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Again, self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

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6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's

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Not crazy.


Of course she is going to use fire. That is power that she has. Guess what? Bruce Lee used karate a lot. Nobody would bat an eye that he would use karate to solve all his problems. What people would ask, "WTF?" about is if 7/8ths through a Bruce Lee movie, if he decided to completely change character and use his karate skills to suddenly kick the crap out of children because he heard a bell ring.

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Who ever said Crazy??? i never did. I said her response was always there - it's what she did when backed in a corner. she ignored advice and used fire.

When I saw it was always there I'm saying it was always there the potential to go this way based on her behaviors. you can justify them saying she was backed in a corner or self defense or whatever but she always used this tactic.

And this was an extreme - yes - no doubt. But I can't believe anyone is surprised either because it's not just like sudden.

lost 75% of her army
lost 2 dragons
not the best claim to the throne any more - which was her entire life belief and goal
betrayed by Varys, Tyrion, Jon
feels like all of Westeros hates her anyway
watched her most trusted advisor get executed


given all of that and her signature move is burning everything... it's not out of the blue. It's the extreme result and culmination.

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I got my posters mixed up. Somebody else was chalking this up to her being crazy. My point was that nothing she has done up until now provided any evidence that she was crazy (except her dad being crazy).


To answer your point, she was not backed into a corner this time. The battle was basically won. She literally heard bells ring and decided to randomly commit genocide. It made absolutely no sense.

The only explanation would be if she was crazy, which as I have already said, would make no sense.

MW03 said:

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Haven't read any of my fellow nerds posts, so I'm sure yall are dissecting this to hell and talking about how bad it was or whatever. But first impression: that was awesome. Flip of the coin when a Targaryen is born, and you have two. Dany went personal against the Red Keep, Jon is the measured and hesitant King the realm needs.

I don't like Jamie going back to Cersei, but he loved her so it's whatever. Come into the world together, go out together. I'm just glad for the Sandor/Arya scene and that it wasn't Arya's kill.

I'll go back and read all the critiques and whatnot, but for now, for a fan of the show that's read the books, I really enjoyed this entire episode.

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ditto.

and i said much the same.

the last 2 episodes deserved a lot of the criticism - and there are a few naysayers here that are very vocal. but just counting up the responses here many more loved this episode then hated it.

aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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G Martin 87 said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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Old Tom Morris said:

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Some of you thinking her split personality flipped in an instant need to step back and look at some of the themes that have happened with her from the beginning of the series. There is a clear path to the possibility of this happening. I just think the rushed ending of the past couple of seasons robbed us of seeing the transition done more smoothly.

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A lot of the events that people try to use to point it out, like burning the Tarlys, aren't very convincing though. She gave them a chance to surrender.

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Until Cersei had Missandei beheaded, Jon and Varys and Tyrion all betrayed her, and she realized finally that she was utterly alone and unloved. Did not need 3 more episodes to establish that.

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Boo the F hoo. None of that comes close to explaining her sudden change. Might as well have her stub her step on a lego and then turn into Hitler. At least that makes a little more sense.

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She was crazy all along. You know this.

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No, we don't. NOTHING she did prior to hearing those bells was remotely crazy.

It would literally be like Indiana Jones deciding to use the Ark to take over the world at the end of Raiders. That level of stupidity.

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Remind me when Indiana jones had previously burned people multiple times? Or when he had torched his enemies that wouldn't kneel? Or ordered any executions deserved or not?

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The execution of the Tarly's was far more deserved than Ned's execution of that dude in S1E1. This whole line is ridiculous. She was the beacon of mercy compared to her contemporaries in the show and those in real life during a similar time period.

Face it.. the show freaking laid a big fat egg. I was defending the crap out of it until tonight. I haven't been a blind hater like SWAG.

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Ummmm, bashing someone whose opinion you now share (nay, stole) is against the non disclosure agreement you signed

CFTXAG10 said:

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So will Jon take the throne out of necessity to avoid the mad queen ruling? Or just peace out and head North?

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In my mind Daenerys has to die and I think Jon will do it, maybe Arya but I hope Jon. My only question is whether Jon will live or die. I hope he dies as well.

Anyone else catch the caches of green wildfire exploding around the city. Dany carried out her mad father's last command. That was a very cool nod to bring it full circle.

aTmAg said:

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But it's okay to admit that the writing since GRRM's story ran out has been poor to now outright dreadful.

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i agree. Once the original material ran out, this show has gone off the rails.

This episode was pretty good though. Only major gripe is that Tyrion getting kicked in the balls by Dany over just about everything is terrible.

I don't think this show or last season can ever be as bad as House of Cards finale and final season, so at least there is that.

aTmAg said:

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TCTTS said:

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I wonder how long this tweet stays up, from one of Hollywood's biggest producers...

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Good lord. There is plenty to criticize. Going the whole "sexist" route is asinine.

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Yeah I've been critical of the last 2 seasons, but the show has still been good overall. The sexist angle is stupid too.

Episode title: The Bells

I mean people are ignoring the biggest glaring issue anyway....

dragons apparently have an endless supply of fire juice - that defies all physics. he spewed more than 100 times his own volume in fire.

but whatever cuz it was badass.

lol

That was laughable - I cannot believe GOT is going out like this. One of the biggest blown leads of any TV show ever.

There's some good stuff in there. I love Dany's arc, actually - it makes complete sense. Execution sucks.

Tyrion/Jamie convo was good. Qyburn death was awesome. Clegane Bowl was fine.

The rest of it, though - the ultimate resolution of Jamie/Cersei (two of the most fascinating characters to ever grace the page), smartest player of the game goes out due to convo in broad daylight with Jon Snow, shrewdest player of the game basically freezes in a tower when the magic ballistae suddenly don't work, the hilarious white horse "symbolism" which is about as subtle as a Mountain gauntlet to the face, etc., etc., etc.

This needed ten more hours, at least. Also pretty crazy to realize that future of Star Wars films are in the hands of these guys and Rian Johnson. Yikes.

OldShadeOfBlue said:

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Trying to connect the dots. Bran sees this in his visions. Instead of telling Jon this, he tells him his lineage instead, which just ends up adding more fuel to Dany's fire... Why?

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Because if he saw the future, that means it actually winds up happening anyway, whether he warns anyone about it or not. He's the 3 Eyed Raven, not Dr. Strange.

Only one more episode left for Howland Reed to show up

I'm not shocked that we ended up here and I don't know that's the point of any arguments. Her doing this makes sense from storytelling standpoint. Problem is they seem to have cut out a few scripts to accelerate the process and now it just doesn't have the same weight it might have had.

We have been in this world for 9 years but from storytelling standpoint I'm not sure you can do justice to it (especially at the pace the first 4 or 5 seasons went) in 8 seasons.

The end of every character makes sense. Loved varys' end. It feels like we missed out on a good deal of the journey to me.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Episode title: The Bells

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Kinda funny.... but too soon???

Did anyone else think a giant bell fell OVER Arya???? the bell tower crumbled over her and made a bell ringing sound as it went dark. I thought she was trapped inside a 1000 pound bell for a second.

Sasappis said:

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aTmAg said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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WestAustinAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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G Martin 87 said:

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The Dog Lord said:

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Old Tom Morris said:

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Some of you thinking her split personality flipped in an instant need to step back and look at some of the themes that have happened with her from the beginning of the series. There is a clear path to the possibility of this happening. I just think the rushed ending of the past couple of seasons robbed us of seeing the transition done more smoothly.

---

A lot of the events that people try to use to point it out, like burning the Tarlys, aren't very convincing though. She gave them a chance to surrender.

---

Until Cersei had Missandei beheaded, Jon and Varys and Tyrion all betrayed her, and she realized finally that she was utterly alone and unloved. Did not need 3 more episodes to establish that.

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Boo the F hoo. None of that comes close to explaining her sudden change. Might as well have her stub her step on a lego and then turn into Hitler. At least that makes a little more sense.

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She was crazy all along. You know this.

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No, we don't. NOTHING she did prior to hearing those bells was remotely crazy.

It would literally be like Indiana Jones deciding to use the Ark to take over the world at the end of Raiders. That level of stupidity.

---

Remind me when Indiana jones had previously burned people multiple times? Or when he had torched his enemies that wouldn't kneel? Or ordered any executions deserved or not?

---

The execution of the Tarly's was far more deserved than Ned's execution of that dude in S1E1. This whole line is ridiculous. She was the beacon of mercy compared to her contemporaries in the show and those in real life during a similar time period.

Face it.. the show freaking laid a big fat egg. I was defending the crap out of it until tonight. I haven't been a blind hater like SWAG.

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She crucified hundreds of masters as a way of inspiring fear. She killed the tarleys for staying loyal to their queen. She killed rick on when he could have been merciful. She has been threatening to destroy the city for a long time. She has routinely had to be talked out of more extreme action by her advisor. Her impulse has always been extreme and violent. There was no one to stop her and she her self said all she has is fear.

She is her father.

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All of those were justifiable by the circumstances and the way things worked in their world.

Just think about it this way... Cersei was the clear monster in the show. After all, she blew up the Sept with a bunch of innocent people in it. Nobody prior to today was arguing that Dany was worse then Cerei. Then today, suddenly Dany wins the battle, hears bells ring, and decides to go Hitler on the whole town doing FAR worse than Cersei ever dreamed of.

It was another D&D attempt to be "shocking" and it was way worse than any other attempt prior.

How do you measure fire in Volume?

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

---

Quote:

---

It was always there - she always resorted to ignoring advice and torching everyone. ALWAYS


1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons

---

Not crazy. She knew she could withstand it, and was trying to earn her position and respect back.

Quote:

---

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive

---

Self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

---

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest

---

Smart, not crazy.

Quote:

---

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out

---

Again, not crazy.

Quote:

---

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.

---

Again, self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

---

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's

---

Not crazy.


Of course she is going to use fire. That is power that she has. Guess what? Bruce Lee used karate a lot. Nobody would bat an eye that he would use karate to solve all his problems. What people would ask, "WTF?" about is if 7/8ths through a Bruce Lee movie, if he decided to completely change character and use his karate skills to suddenly kick the crap out of children because he heard a bell ring.

---

Who ever said Crazy??? i never did. I said her response was always there - it's what she did when backed in a corner. she ignored advice and used fire.

When I saw it was always there I'm saying it was always there the potential to go this way based on her behaviors. you can justify them saying she was backed in a corner or self defense or whatever but she always used this tactic.

And this was an extreme - yes - no doubt. But I can't believe anyone is surprised either because it's not just like sudden.

lost 75% of her army
lost 2 dragons
not the best claim to the throne any more - which was her entire life belief and goal
betrayed by Varys, Tyrion, Jon
feels like all of Westeros hates her anyway
watched her most trusted advisor get executed


given all of that and her signature move is burning everything... it's not out of the blue. It's the extreme result and culmination.

---

Exactly. For all of those hating how this show is ending, think about that emotion.

Now you're Dany. You've spent your whole life making what you thought were the right and good choices. You also have a touch of the crazy. You're at the finish line of your life's work. But you've lost pretty much everyone you've loved. Your earliest memories are talk of people drinking secret toasts to your health. You know that was a lie, but still, you can liberate these people. Everyone close to you betrays you in some way. All the men you've loved no longer love you. You won't have children. Two of your "children" are dead. Here it is, the throne you've wanted to take. But these people aren't carrying you on their shoulders like in Essos. They are cowering in fear. The bells toll. Not in triumph, but in fear and defeat. These people don't deserve the liberation you've brought. Burn them all. That's the only thing that's ever worked for you.