****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Big Al 1992
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AG
"F'ing die"
- The Hound
WestAustinAg
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

aTmAg said:


Quote:

It was always there - she always resorted to ignoring advice and torching everyone. ALWAYS


1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons
Not crazy. She knew she could withstand it, and was trying to earn her position and respect back.
Quote:

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive
Self defense. Not crazy.
Quote:

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest
Smart, not crazy.
Quote:

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out
Again, not crazy.
Quote:

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.
Again, self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's
Not crazy.


Of course she is going to use fire. That is power that she has. Guess what? Bruce Lee used karate a lot. Nobody would bat an eye that he would use karate to solve all his problems. What people would ask, "WTF?" about is if 7/8ths through a Bruce Lee movie, if he decided to completely change character and use his karate skills to suddenly kick the crap out of children because he heard a bell ring.

Who ever said Crazy??? i never did. I said her response was always there - it's what she did when backed in a corner. she ignored advice and used fire.

When I saw it was always there I'm saying it was always there the potential to go this way based on her behaviors. you can justify them saying she was backed in a corner or self defense or whatever but she always used this tactic.

And this was an extreme - yes - no doubt. But I can't believe anyone is surprised either because it's not just like sudden.

lost 75% of her army
lost 2 dragons
not the best claim to the throne any more - which was her entire life belief and goal
betrayed by Varys, Tyrion, Jon
feels like all of Westeros hates her anyway
watched her most trusted advisor get executed


given all of that and her signature move is burning everything... it's not out of the blue. It's the extreme result and culmination.






She actually was crazy. She had delusions if grandeur throughout. She was ruthless 90% of the time. She ruled by fear most of the time.
digital_ag
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Overall I liked this episode. The director is really good.

I get that the show has hinted that it was "possible" for Dany to go crazy but I thought what made her different was that she, up to this episode I guess, rejected that path. I thought that was the whole point of her character - we all have a darkness inside us. And on top of that they brought up the Mad King several times (as well as her bro in S1) to make the distinction. I never once got the vibe that they were foreshadowing her eventual meltdown. She was always the stern but fair ruler despite being tested. All that time in the East, breaking chains and such, were like the trials before the main event.

I guess I'm in the minority on that. I like her character and I'm kinda bummed she turned into a civilian slayer.
DSAg44
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Any chance zombie Ned Stark comes back to claim his throne after Jon and Dany die?
ScottishFire
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How about the symbolism of Dany becoming her dad, as she torched the city and his wildfire blew up beneath the buildings and rubble?

Awesome
Zombie Jon Snow
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Fenrir said:

How do you measure fire in Volume?

A city of a million people is all ablaze = lots and lots of fire

a dragon = about 1/1000th of the city size.

i get that gases expand and fire then catches and burns but he was just bellowing out fire for 30 minutes with pass after pass.

it would be like trying to fart almost continuously for 30 minutes. lol I think that greatly exceeds the volume of gas possible inside any being.

i mean i really don't care it just defies logic. but it's fantasy.
The Dog Lord
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hbc07 said:

Not sure if anyone else has asked this already... but did Varys get any crows off prior to his untimely demise?

Pretty sure he did. Didn't see the little scrolls on his desk any longer when they came to get him.
AggieDPT
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Glad we have a resident Dragon expert on this board to keep us all straight
Old Tom Morris
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Now she's the Breaker of Chains and Pretty Much Every Other ****ing Thing
PatAg
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The Dog Lord said:

hbc07 said:

Not sure if anyone else has asked this already... but did Varys get any crows off prior to his untimely demise?

Pretty sure he did. Didn't see the little scrolls on his desk any longer when they came to get him.
he burned some scrolls, not sure if he burned them all
BenFiasco14
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Also if that's really how Cersei and Jaime go out that's pure GARBAGE
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
Big Al 1992
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Did anyone else think for a moment when Jamie and Cersei are reunited and hugging, Arya would take off her Jaime face and stab Cersei? They could've should've done that.
Silvertaps
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C@LAg said:

to annie and her ilk.

yes. some of you do need to chill the f out.

This is a discussion forum, If some of us want to rant, we can rant. Just as easily as you tell us to scroll down and skip something we do not like, follow your own suggestions.

You do not like the conversation here, you can always log off.



You've been bi.tching more than anyone on this thread about your displeasure in every episode this season. It's what makes your response to Annie and ilk even more laughable.

It's simple...if you don't like it, turn it off. It's annoying as f*** for you and others to keep running to your computer/phone to tell the world about it.
PatAg
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aggietony2010 said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

aTmAg said:


Quote:

It was always there - she always resorted to ignoring advice and torching everyone. ALWAYS


1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons
Not crazy. She knew she could withstand it, and was trying to earn her position and respect back.
Quote:

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive
Self defense. Not crazy.
Quote:

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest
Smart, not crazy.
Quote:

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out
Again, not crazy.
Quote:

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.
Again, self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's
Not crazy.


Of course she is going to use fire. That is power that she has. Guess what? Bruce Lee used karate a lot. Nobody would bat an eye that he would use karate to solve all his problems. What people would ask, "WTF?" about is if 7/8ths through a Bruce Lee movie, if he decided to completely change character and use his karate skills to suddenly kick the crap out of children because he heard a bell ring.

Who ever said Crazy??? i never did. I said her response was always there - it's what she did when backed in a corner. she ignored advice and used fire.

When I saw it was always there I'm saying it was always there the potential to go this way based on her behaviors. you can justify them saying she was backed in a corner or self defense or whatever but she always used this tactic.

And this was an extreme - yes - no doubt. But I can't believe anyone is surprised either because it's not just like sudden.

lost 75% of her army
lost 2 dragons
not the best claim to the throne any more - which was her entire life belief and goal
betrayed by Varys, Tyrion, Jon
feels like all of Westeros hates her anyway
watched her most trusted advisor get executed


given all of that and her signature move is burning everything... it's not out of the blue. It's the extreme result and culmination.






Exactly. For all of those hating how this show is ending, think about that emotion.

Now you're Dany. You've spent your whole life making what you thought were the right and good choices. You also have a touch of the crazy. You're at the finish line of your life's work. But you've lost pretty much everyone you've loved. Your earliest memories are talk of people drinking secret toasts to your health. You know that was a lie, but still, you can liberate these people. Everyone close to you betrays you in some way. All the men you've loved no longer love you. You won't have children. Two of your "children" are dead. Here it is, the throne you've wanted to take. But these people aren't carrying you on their shoulders like in Essos. They are cowering in fear. The bells toll. Not in triumph, but in fear and defeat. These people don't deserve the liberation you've brought. Burn them all. That's the only thing that's ever worked for you.
no
wangus12
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Mantis Toboggan MD said:

CFTXAG10 said:

So will Jon take the throne out of necessity to avoid the mad queen ruling? Or just peace out and head North?

In my mind Daenerys has to die and I think Jon will do it, maybe Arya but I hope Jon. My only question is whether Jon will live or die. I hope he dies as well.
I agree. I think it has to be Jon. Question is how does he get close enough to do it. I don't think she trusts anyone anymore
aggietony2010
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PatAg said:

aggietony2010 said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

aTmAg said:


Quote:

It was always there - she always resorted to ignoring advice and torching everyone. ALWAYS


1. walked into a burning fire pit and walked out with 3 dragons
Not crazy. She knew she could withstand it, and was trying to earn her position and respect back.
Quote:

2. went into the house of the undying alone to rescue her dragons and burned the guy alive
Self defense. Not crazy.
Quote:

3. Traded for the Unsullied and then Dracarys-ed the slave trader and then ordered the unsullied to kill the rest
Smart, not crazy.
Quote:

4. Walked alone into the Khal temple and killed them all with fire and walked out
Again, not crazy.
Quote:

5. Under attack in an assassination attempt in the dragon pit she mounted the dragon, torched people and flew off.
Again, self defense. Not crazy.

Quote:

6. Returned to Mereen amidst an assault and unleashed Drogon on the ships and slayed the masters and loosed the dothraki on the harpy's
Not crazy.


Of course she is going to use fire. That is power that she has. Guess what? Bruce Lee used karate a lot. Nobody would bat an eye that he would use karate to solve all his problems. What people would ask, "WTF?" about is if 7/8ths through a Bruce Lee movie, if he decided to completely change character and use his karate skills to suddenly kick the crap out of children because he heard a bell ring.

Who ever said Crazy??? i never did. I said her response was always there - it's what she did when backed in a corner. she ignored advice and used fire.

When I saw it was always there I'm saying it was always there the potential to go this way based on her behaviors. you can justify them saying she was backed in a corner or self defense or whatever but she always used this tactic.

And this was an extreme - yes - no doubt. But I can't believe anyone is surprised either because it's not just like sudden.

lost 75% of her army
lost 2 dragons
not the best claim to the throne any more - which was her entire life belief and goal
betrayed by Varys, Tyrion, Jon
feels like all of Westeros hates her anyway
watched her most trusted advisor get executed


given all of that and her signature move is burning everything... it's not out of the blue. It's the extreme result and culmination.






Exactly. For all of those hating how this show is ending, think about that emotion.

Now you're Dany. You've spent your whole life making what you thought were the right and good choices. You also have a touch of the crazy. You're at the finish line of your life's work. But you've lost pretty much everyone you've loved. Your earliest memories are talk of people drinking secret toasts to your health. You know that was a lie, but still, you can liberate these people. Everyone close to you betrays you in some way. All the men you've loved no longer love you. You won't have children. Two of your "children" are dead. Here it is, the throne you've wanted to take. But these people aren't carrying you on their shoulders like in Essos. They are cowering in fear. The bells toll. Not in triumph, but in fear and defeat. These people don't deserve the liberation you've brought. Burn them all. That's the only thing that's ever worked for you.
no


K
aTmAg
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

you're actually in the minority now - she was always capable of this. it's the most honest the writers have been this season. they pulled no punches. this was the culmination.
Just wait. I expect the hate for this episode to be quite loud.

And they were terrible at showing how she was capable of doing this. Just because she has dragons and uses fire to protect herself or to punish enemies who actively fight against her doesn't mean that she's always been capable of genocide.

George Washington had enemies executed too. Does that mean he was capable of killing a million of civilians after the battle was won? Hell no.
G Martin 87
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Big Al 1992 said:

Did anyone else think for a moment when Jamie and Cersei are reunited and hugging, Arya would take off her Jaime face and stab Cersei? They could've should've done that.
Really? Then people would have been complaining that it came out of the blue with no warning. We didn't see Arya kill Jaime to take his face! Bad writing! etc etc.
Mantis Toboggan MD
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It is ironic that a zombie-related handle is arguing about the physics of a dragon in a show's second to last episode.
Fenrir
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Dragons are and always have been magica. of all the things to grouse about, that's down the list.
wangus12
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Episode title: The Bells
Thats.....pretty dumb.

Should have gone with the words of House Targaryan

Fire & Blood
EFE
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Big Al 1992 said:

Did anyone else think for a moment when Jamie and Cersei are reunited and hugging, Arya would take off her Jaime face and stab Cersei? They could've should've done that.

I half expected her to pop in and pin them together with needle.
Old Tom Morris
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I think I would have liked to have seen her start with the castle, with a good number of soldiers and some scorpions surrounding it. So even though they rang the bells, she decides to torch the castle and soldiers anyway. Then things kind of spiral out of control as this plays out, and she burns everything. Getting wound up about the castle but then starting by burning **** miles away just seemed weird if that wsa supposed to be the final trigger.
JJxvi
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Dany wasnt backed in a corner
Ranger222
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Qyburn's death the best thing about this season so far
astroaggie22
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Im guessing he got one raven off, headed to the Citadel
Zombie Jon Snow
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interesting the three biggest naysayers here

C@LAg
PatAg
aTmAg

hmmmmm. all three character "Ag"s

just an observation.
chipotle
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I'm thinking Daario shows up to see what's happening and is like "woah, what'd I miss?" Then him and H. reed take off together.
The Dog Lord
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PatAg said:

The Dog Lord said:

hbc07 said:

Not sure if anyone else has asked this already... but did Varys get any crows off prior to his untimely demise?

Pretty sure he did. Didn't see the little scrolls on his desk any longer when they came to get him.
he burned some scrolls, not sure if he burned them all

Yeah, I think some were sent. Not sure to who exactly, but they will likely get that news shortly before the news of the sack of KL. Seems like a perfect recipe for everyone to support Jon. A little too perfect...the crypts are safest. He should wait it out down there.
G Martin 87
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BenFiasco14 said:

Also if that's really how Cersei and Jaime go out that's pure GARBAGE
Why? They came into the world together, and they left the world together. Besides, it was Tyrion's fault. He set Jaime free and told him the escape route.
Big Al 1992
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Other thoughts -
Varys execution while sad was awesome when Drogon appeared out of the darkness.

Sansa nowhere to be found - when's the last time she wasn't in an episode.

The Mountain's helmet coming off and seeing the gruesomeness - ie Darth Vader's helmet coming off.

Where did all the Dothraki and Unsullied come from - did the WW pretty much wipe them all out??
Zombie Jon Snow
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Mantis Toboggan MD said:

It is ironic that a zombie-related handle is arguing about the physics of a dragon in a show's second to last episode.

i'm not arguing. i think it's comical.

we've had really dumb physics discussions before on tons of things on this show - it's funny to me that nobody cares about that one.

i'm not making it an issue i'm laughing about the absurdity of it not being an issue.
aggietony2010
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On a non-plot related note, I bet this episode triggered at least a few episodes of 9/11 related PTSD. There were some images straight out of 9/11.
MW03
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One point, because I managed to read a couple of criticisms.

How do you guys balance on one hand being angry that the producers are giving the fans what they want with respect to certain scenes, and in the next criticizing the way other scenes play out because they are a disservice to the fans? Case in point: Cersei's death. It was disappointing as a fan to have Jamie go back to her, and for them to die together. It was disappointing for Jamie to revoke his entire character arc for Cersei. However, would it not have been corny and entirely predictable (if satisfying) for Jamie to kill her and his unborn child? How Hollywood, feel-good-ending would it have been for Jamie to forget the love of his life, a woman he'd loved for 30 years, to do the right thing? Should they have cast him with Freddie Prinze, Jr? Same with Dany. We all want her to be a good queen, to stand down and save the city and ascend to the iron throne as a hero. Well, having her actually be her father is disappointing, but it's the exact "GRRM misery" that we should be accustomed to after 30 years, 5 books, and 7 seasons of this show.

Yes, absolutely it felt rushed. I don't know if that's because the cast is trying to cash in on their present fame and move on, or if it's because HBO didn't want to pony up or whatever. But Jamie killing Cersei is what you want. Dany not being her father is what you want. Tyrion knowing every answer is what you want. Jon being a master battle strategist is what you want. GRRM and Game of Thrones is not in the business of giving you what you want.

We can quibble with Tormund surviving as a fan favorite. Lady Mormont getting a good death scene because she's a fan favorite. But with respect to our main actors and character arcs, you are 100% not getting what you want, and it's making us angry. This is GOT.
chipotle
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Big Al 1992 said:

Where did all the Dothraki and Unsullied come from - did the WW pretty much wipe them all out??


Supposedly half survived. Huge Eyeroll right there
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