That was a nice video that the person put together. GRRM nailed it and that's why most of us are not loving the ending near as much as we hoped we would.FIDO95 said:
The difference between writing a great book series and writing for shock value.
I think we are all witnesses to what GRRM is saying is true.
****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******
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1) Re-read that sentence that you pulled out again. You're responding to something I never said.
2) who are you? just a fly by ****-poster? go back to the politics board.
2) who are you? just a fly by ****-poster? go back to the politics board.
So it wasn't rushed and it wasn't under funded. The only logical explanation for the short seasons must be lack of source material and D&Ds inabilities to develop the story arcs they were given.
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I'm a clear show defender on this thread, but the more I think about this episode, the more I come to the below conclusion:
I just cannot get over how bush league it is that D&D killed Rhaegal in that fashion. Putting aside the utter absurdity of the scene itself, Rhaegal had about 10 times the amount of screen time as Myrcella, has helped to save Dany's life at least 4 times, and had just recently bonded with Jon. Yet it gets triple tapped out of the blue for no reason other than convenience. It's almost like the Rhaegal CGI team budget suddenly hit overdraft and the producers just pulled the plug. There's not even a chance for Dany to lament it's death!
I loved the way Missande went out. There was tension, there was a choice, and there was consequence. We got to see the anguish and rage from that scene in Dany and Greyworm. But Rhaegal didn't get ANY of that and there wasn't any purpose behind it either except for a garbage "surprise!" stunt.
I just cannot get over how bush league it is that D&D killed Rhaegal in that fashion. Putting aside the utter absurdity of the scene itself, Rhaegal had about 10 times the amount of screen time as Myrcella, has helped to save Dany's life at least 4 times, and had just recently bonded with Jon. Yet it gets triple tapped out of the blue for no reason other than convenience. It's almost like the Rhaegal CGI team budget suddenly hit overdraft and the producers just pulled the plug. There's not even a chance for Dany to lament it's death!
I loved the way Missande went out. There was tension, there was a choice, and there was consequence. We got to see the anguish and rage from that scene in Dany and Greyworm. But Rhaegal didn't get ANY of that and there wasn't any purpose behind it either except for a garbage "surprise!" stunt.
Ok. It is the small changes that could have been made that we could have lived with all of these outcomes that we are complaining about.
If they see Euron's ships, then Rhageal goes down to breathe fire, even burns a ship or two. Then a volley of 15-20 scorpions fire and he gets hit by 3 and dies.
I still don't like that storyline, but that would make sense. It would show the danger of getting too close, why Dany doesn't go burn them all and removes the Suprise, there is a fleet of ships you mentioned then forgot about. And, there is some damage to Euron's fleet as well.
A few little details like that .....
A pissed/confused look from Euron about the baby. That could have led to a witty comment from Cersei.
If they see Euron's ships, then Rhageal goes down to breathe fire, even burns a ship or two. Then a volley of 15-20 scorpions fire and he gets hit by 3 and dies.
I still don't like that storyline, but that would make sense. It would show the danger of getting too close, why Dany doesn't go burn them all and removes the Suprise, there is a fleet of ships you mentioned then forgot about. And, there is some damage to Euron's fleet as well.
A few little details like that .....
A pissed/confused look from Euron about the baby. That could have led to a witty comment from Cersei.
smokeythebear said:
I'm a clear show defender on this thread, but the more I think about this episode, the more I come to the below conclusion:
I just cannot get over how bush league it is that D&D killed Rhaegal in that fashion. Putting aside the utter absurdity of the scene itself, Rhaegal had about 10 times the amount of screen time as Myrcella, has helped to save Dany's life at least 4 times, and had just recently bonded with Jon. Yet it gets triple tapped out of the blue for no reason other than convenience. It's almost like the Rhaegal CGI team budget suddenly hit overdraft and the producers just pulled the plug. There's not even a chance for Dany to lament it's death!
I loved the way Missande went out. There was tension, there was a choice, and there was consequence. We got to see the anguish and rage from that scene in Dany and Greyworm. But Rhaegal didn't get ANY of that and there wasn't any purpose behind it either except for a garbage "surprise!" stunt.
I think they just missed an opportunity for a good Jon and Dany scene there. Jon goes to comfort her, Dany finds out he told Arya and Sansa about his parents, they are more at odds than ever before.
If the last two episodes are huge clunkers I think those two are going to need to hire full time security.
smokeythebear said:
It's almost like the Rhaegal CGI team budget suddenly hit overdraft and the producers just pulled the plug.
I could definitely see this happening, or something close. The OCC podcast guys were talking about how the season felt like it has been reverse engineered. Basically, they took their time constraints, budget constraints and their ending and then put the story around it, instead of just telling a good story.
Although I do think they wanted to get rid of the dragon to further the idea that Dany is being backed into a corner as well. Maybe this was a way accomplish both.
The unrealistic nature of the attack was just to provide a shocking "Wow" moment - but it was done at such an expense to reality that it backfired.
I really like Pete's idea above of how to do the scene and have it be more realistic. It's like they threw that easy way to tell the story out the window just so it would provide a couple seconds of surprise...
Quote:
But Rhaegal didn't get ANY of that and there wasn't any purpose behind it either except for a garbage "surprise!" stunt.
I think that if the scene was edited/written better that it wouldn't have seemed like such a garbage shock value stunt. Like if Rhaegal were shot out of the sky by camouflaged scorpions hiding among the rock formations, I would have seen it as a classic "oh ****" Game of Thrones moment, but when it's a fleet of ships somehow sneaking up on dragons, killing one quickly, smashing the fleet, and then... retreating back to King's Landing instead of finishing the job? It was awkwardly paced to the point that any surprise factor to Rhaegal dying was overshadowed by rushed, poor writing
Yeah...like, how did they catch Missandei anyway? Did she make it to the skiff? Where did the skiff go that Euron could capture her and not Tyrion or Varys?Quote:
a fleet of ships somehow sneaking up on dragons, killing one quickly, smashing the fleet, and then... retreating back to King's Landing instead of finishing the job?
mother f-cker, I was kind of past all this and now I realize it makes even less sense.
Well dragons are neither male nor female in most lore - they can interchange actually.
But still not sure how ONE would create dragon eggs and fertilize them.
but it's magic you know....so.... possible. and they would probably just avoid that little question.
Maybe Dany storms of mounts Drogon and flies back to Essos to gather his/her dragon flock she knew about but was giving time to grow. They might be the size of Drogon around the time he lit up the slave master. A flock of those would be scary and hard to shoot.
Smokey- agree with your sentiment completely. I really want to enjoy the show and I'm trying to avoid jumping in with the lemmings constantly complaining. However, it is getting harder and harder to do.
Champ- techniquely speaking, Jon didn't tell Sansa and Arya.
. Might be another white lie coming similar to Bran telling him about his parentage and Sam confirming vs what really happened.
Champ- techniquely speaking, Jon didn't tell Sansa and Arya.
. Might be another white lie coming similar to Bran telling him about his parentage and Sam confirming vs what really happened. No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
I like that theory. And will combine it with my off the cuff theory watchimg this weeks episode today that cersei remains on the throne. Would be great to me all of this was for not.
Yeah, my big thing on that scene is that it wouldn't have even been very hard to make it make sense and still have the same effect.
The Iron Fleet is going to try and ambush them again, but Dany sees them and goes in for a classic "Dracarys" moment, Euron waits until the dragons are close enough and then suddenly blasts Reaghal out of the sky with the scorpions. Dany is like 'wtf' and then bails out on Drogon, leaving her ships to have to fend for themselves.
It's not like those weapons would be easy to see until you were pretty close to the ships anyway.
The only thing you'd need to change is that Dany sees the ships first and then that scene makes sense.
The Iron Fleet is going to try and ambush them again, but Dany sees them and goes in for a classic "Dracarys" moment, Euron waits until the dragons are close enough and then suddenly blasts Reaghal out of the sky with the scorpions. Dany is like 'wtf' and then bails out on Drogon, leaving her ships to have to fend for themselves.
It's not like those weapons would be easy to see until you were pretty close to the ships anyway.
The only thing you'd need to change is that Dany sees the ships first and then that scene makes sense.
They can't just pull full grown dragons out of their ass at this stage. I can see them showing eggs or newly hatched dragons but none that are big enough to fight.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
One thing I sincerely hope about these last two episodes is that whatever 'surprises' are coming, that they're from pieces already on the board. There is SO MUCH out there that could come back and play a role that surely they aren't going to come up with something completely new and out of the blue like a surprise flock of baby dragons.
There were like 10 episodes between Tywin Lannister triumphing at Blackwater and finally defeating the Starks at the red wedding. And he did it all via writing letters and arranging marriages. That was the show in it's prime. Now that we've established that scorpions > dragons it would be great to see 10+ episodes of political maneuvering instead of teleporting battle scenes.
Season 1 would have been so much better if Robb and the north just showed up at Kings landing in episode 9-10.
Season 1 would have been so much better if Robb and the north just showed up at Kings landing in episode 9-10.
Wes97 said:
GRRM will finish the books when he finishes them. D&D have done a pretty incredible job bring these complex novels to a television series.
bobinator said:
Yeah, my big thing on that scene is that it wouldn't have even been very hard to make it make sense and still have the same effect.
The Iron Fleet is going to try and ambush them again, but Dany sees them and goes in for a classic "Dracarys" moment, Euron waits until the dragons are close enough and then suddenly blasts Reaghal out of the sky with the scorpions. Dany is like 'wtf' and then bails out on Drogon, leaving her ships to have to fend for themselves.
It's not like those weapons would be easy to see until you were pretty close to the ships anyway.
The only thing you'd need to change is that Dany sees the ships first and then that scene makes sense.
Could have simply been covered too by camo cloth.
Yeah that would be even more infuriating, to have something utterly random and unsupported by previous episodes just show up and become a game-changer. Crap, I guess we're getting baby dragons next week.bonfarr said:
They can't just pull full grown dragons out of their ass at this stage. I can see them showing eggs or newly hatched dragons but none that are big enough to fight.
Gods, this X10000000. This show has spent years setting the stage for these final confrontations and building intrigue and they're just pissing it all away at the finish line for the sake of shocking the viewers. Why they felt compelled to rush through this season I can't even imagine. I mean, the reason the Red Wedding was such a shock was because it WASN'T out of left field. All the pieces were laid out, we just didn't put them together until it happened. But the sense of menace and foreboding leading up to it was established, as was the reason.InternetFan02 said:
There were like 10 episodes between Tywin Lannister triumphing at Blackwater and finally defeating the Starks at the red wedding. And he did it all via writing letters and arranging marriages. That was the show in it's prime. Now that we've established that scorpions > dragons it would be great to see 10+ episodes of political maneuvering instead of teleporting battle scenes.
One of the most unreal things to me is that in a show where the villains have been so outstandingly memorable and evil - from Tywin and Roose Bolton, to Littlefinger, even Joffrey and Ramsay - we now get to end the show with Pacey the Pirate as the Big Bad Dragonslayer. That's not an own-goal, it's setting your stadium on fire and driving the team bus into a river.
****ing yes. Nailed it.
Brilliant.pete_claw98 said:
Ok. It is the small changes that could have been made that we could have lived with all of these outcomes that we are complaining about.
If they see Euron's ships, then Rhageal goes down to breathe fire, even burns a ship or two. Then a volley of 15-20 scorpions fire and he gets hit by 3 and dies.
I still don't like that storyline, but that would make sense. It would show the danger of getting too close, why Dany doesn't go burn them all and removes the Suprise, there is a fleet of ships you mentioned then forgot about. And, there is some damage to Euron's fleet as well.
A few little details like that .....
A pissed/confused look from Euron about the baby. That could have led to a witty comment from Cersei.
I don't have a ton of issues with 804 on its own, I am more frustrated with 803 and carried it over to 804.
If we didn't have so many main characters miraculously live against all odds in 803 (let them live because of decent battle tactics and better dragon usage) and we got Jon somewhat involved in the NK demise and Rhagaels death goes down as you wrote above, I am grading this season at an 8 instead of a 6.
In absentia lucis, Tenebrae vin****.
If Davos dies we riot.
Two years...
TWO years...
TWO YEARS...
We were told two years was needed because S8 was going only be SIX episodes of epic amazeballs greatness.
E1 - Reunion
E2 - Remembrance
E3 - I've watched 3 times and still think it's great. Could have been TWO YEAR epic.
E4 - Episode WTF. Reaction from my circle is same.
E5 - Battle of Seven Realms. D&D need a 80-yd 4th quarter TD with 0:00 on the clock...to win...
E6 - Who knows? In all reality, who cares?
TWO years...
TWO YEARS...
We were told two years was needed because S8 was going only be SIX episodes of epic amazeballs greatness.
E1 - Reunion
E2 - Remembrance
E3 - I've watched 3 times and still think it's great. Could have been TWO YEAR epic.
E4 - Episode WTF. Reaction from my circle is same.
E5 - Battle of Seven Realms. D&D need a 80-yd 4th quarter TD with 0:00 on the clock...to win...
E6 - Who knows? In all reality, who cares?
fcking Pacey
Liam is just the best.
It does occur to everyone that Jon has to die right? Everyone that the lord of light resurrected was done for a specific purpose and croaked right after. I have to bet that's going to include him. My guess is he dies putting whoever was destined to lead in the lead and probably killing someone who wanted to be there. And I think we know who that is.
cbr said:
It does occur to everyone that Jon has to die right? Everyone that the lord of light resurrected was done for a specific purpose and croaked right after. I have to bet that's going to include him. My guess is he dies putting whoever was destined to lead in the lead and probably killing someone who wanted to be there. And I think we know who that is.
Baeric was Lazarus'ed six...maybe seven times...
cbr said:
It does occur to everyone that Jon has to die right? Everyone that the lord of light resurrected was done for a specific purpose and croaked right after. I have to bet that's going to include him. My guess is he dies putting whoever was destined to lead in the lead and probably killing someone who wanted to be there. And I think we know who that is.
D&D don't give a flying phauck about any of the prophecies.
Yeah, but no one would ever expect you to set your stadium on fire and drive the team bus into a river, so that would be great writing.jenn96 said:Gods, this X10000000. This show has spent years setting the stage for these final confrontations and building intrigue and they're just pissing it all away at the finish line for the sake of shocking the viewers. Why they felt compelled to rush through this season I can't even imagine. I mean, the reason the Red Wedding was such a shock was because it WASN'T out of left field. All the pieces were laid out, we just didn't put them together until it happened. But the sense of menace and foreboding leading up to it was established, as was the reason.InternetFan02 said:
There were like 10 episodes between Tywin Lannister triumphing at Blackwater and finally defeating the Starks at the red wedding. And he did it all via writing letters and arranging marriages. That was the show in it's prime. Now that we've established that scorpions > dragons it would be great to see 10+ episodes of political maneuvering instead of teleporting battle scenes.
One of the most unreal things to me is that in a show where the villains have been so outstandingly memorable and evil - from Tywin and Roose Bolton, to Littlefinger, even Joffrey and Ramsay - we now get to end the show with Pacey the Pirate as the Big Bad Dragonslayer. That's not an own-goal, it's setting your stadium on fire and driving the team bus into a river.
They do love their snarky, frat bro humor and penthouse forum stories.
The baby dragons were useless (from a battle perspective) for a long time.
It would be really weak (to me) if all of a sudden baby dragons kicked Euron's ass...... or if there were 5+ year old dragons that came out of nowhere.
I agree with bobinator - the surprises need to come from pieces already on the board. 2 episodes left mean no left field curveballs - it would just be cheap.
It would be really weak (to me) if all of a sudden baby dragons kicked Euron's ass...... or if there were 5+ year old dragons that came out of nowhere.
I agree with bobinator - the surprises need to come from pieces already on the board. 2 episodes left mean no left field curveballs - it would just be cheap.
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