****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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canadiaggie
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bangobango said:

DartAg1970 said:

With regards to Cersei not killing Tyrion. I think she has proven several times:

1. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Tyrion after the Dragon Pit meeting
2. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Jaime after he says he's going North

that she is incapable of actually killing her family. Even Tyrion, which is why I think she hired Bronn to do it before they ever made it to King's Landing. It would have been easier for her to just hear they are dead rather than actually be there, see it, and/or give the order to do it.

In the end I don't think she has it in her to do it.
This is just an aside, and it probably has already been said on this thread, but I just learned it so I am going to share it.

According to my wife, the reason Qyburn came to Bronn with the murder contract is because Bronn and Cersei dated in real life and had a really bad breakup. It's now in their contract that they cannot be in the same scenes together.

I await the german bomb moon posts.


Even if it has been stated earlier, you're 100% correct. In fact that's why Bronn isn't present at the Dragonpit parley but randomly wanders off with Podrick
bearamedic99
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redline248 said:

So, what happened to all the Lannister/Tarly soldiers Dany captured? They all bent the knee to avoid becoming bbq. Did they join her army?


Who cares? We need to talk about Bran reproducing, heat seeking ballista, and ballista ranges
Prosperdick
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bangobango said:

DartAg1970 said:

With regards to Cersei not killing Tyrion. I think she has proven several times:

1. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Tyrion after the Dragon Pit meeting
2. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Jaime after he says he's going North

that she is incapable of actually killing her family. Even Tyrion, which is why I think she hired Bronn to do it before they ever made it to King's Landing. It would have been easier for her to just hear they are dead rather than actually be there, see it, and/or give the order to do it.

In the end I don't think she has it in her to do it.
This is just an aside, and it probably has already been said on this thread, but I just learned it so I am going to share it.

According to my wife, the reason Qyburn came to Bronn with the murder contract is because Bronn and Cersei dated in real life and had a really bad breakup. It's now in their contract that they cannot be in the same scenes together.

I await the german bomb moon posts.
That is correct and if you remember the Dragon Pit meeting it was painfully obvious, Bronn tells Podrick "hey lets go and let the fancy folks talk" and leave and immediately cut to Cercei arriving. Sad that they can't be professionals but sounds like it's mostly at Lena's behest.
cbr
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I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.
Urban Ag
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Triggered?

I'm not the one trying to convince people on a message board that something sucks. If I thought it sucked, I wouldn't be watching. I certainly wouldn't be dedicating my time to trying to convince you something you enjoy is terrible. What's the point, really? Everyone gets y'all think the show sucks and you're going to pick apart everything single detail to make that point. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

That seems like a better example of being "triggered".
Phrasing
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bangobango said:

DartAg1970 said:

With regards to Cersei not killing Tyrion. I think she has proven several times:

1. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Tyrion after the Dragon Pit meeting
2. Doesn't let the Mountain kill Jaime after he says he's going North

that she is incapable of actually killing her family. Even Tyrion, which is why I think she hired Bronn to do it before they ever made it to King's Landing. It would have been easier for her to just hear they are dead rather than actually be there, see it, and/or give the order to do it.

In the end I don't think she has it in her to do it.
This is just an aside, and it probably has already been said on this thread, but I just learned it so I am going to share it.

According to my wife, the reason Qyburn came to Bronn with the murder contract is because Bronn and Cersei dated in real life and had a really bad breakup. It's now in their contract that they cannot be in the same scenes together.

I await the german bomb moon posts.
I've heard this as well. Same reason Bronn grabbed Podrick at the Dragon Pit meeting and said, "Come on, lets go get a drink". There was absolutely no reason for those guys to leave that meeting. But the actors playing Bronn and Cersei are so bitter and can't stand being together that the writers have written them out of scenes together like this.

Edit - damn I'm slow.....mentioned above a couple times already
canadiaggie
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cbr said:

I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.


Maybe Cersei's plan is to let them gather and defeat them in one swoop? If she killed the entourage here and now, Jon just goes back North, Dorne possibly rebels, and Euron has to take back the Iron Islands. All this in winter. Presumably Cersei's line of credit only runs so deep with the Iron Bank and she can't afford a protracted campaign of trying to reel in the other kingdoms.

Just my internal justification.
cbr
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clinker03 said:

Quote:

Its also impossible for them to think cersi was going to surrender or that she was not going to kill missandre, so what was the point of marching up to the gate before your army even arrives? Of course no way she doesnt kill tyrion either, but thats irrelevant because there is no way she doesnt kill them all.
I don't think they had any intention of her surrendering. The scene right before it, they made it clear that they were just asking her to surrender so that when Dany killed everyone in King's landing, the survivors knew that she gave Cersei a peaceful option and that death and destruction wasn't their first choice. Argue it all you want, but that's what the show writers were going for.

Good point. But that goes back to my prior point - danaris took the other cities by showing up powerfully, and talking to the people herself instead of wasting breath on the rulers offering them a better master.

Why show up weak and pleading to the ruler here?
Joseph Parrish
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Urban Ag said:

Triggered?

I'm not the one trying to convince people on a message board that something sucks. If I thought it sucked, I wouldn't be watching. I certainly wouldn't be dedicating my time to trying to convince you something you enjoy is terrible. What's the point, really? Everyone gets y'all think the show sucks and you're going to pick apart everything single detail to make that point. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

That seems like a better example of being "triggered".
People talking about scenes they think are done poorly doesn't mean they think the entire show sucks. You're extrapolating the issue.
ac04
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can you both please stop arguing about the dragon show on the internet for a while
cbr
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canadiaggie said:

cbr said:

I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.


Maybe Cersei's plan is to let them gather and defeat them in one swoop? If she killed the entourage here and now, Jon just goes back North, Dorne possibly rebels, and Euron has to take back the Iron Islands. All this in winter. Presumably Cersei's line of credit only runs so deep with the Iron Bank and she can't afford a protracted campaign of trying to reel in the other kingdoms.

Just my internal justification.
Best ive heard yet...doesnt get me there but its a great pitch. Divide and conquer is always better than 'let your enemies get their **** together and choose the time and place'
Urban Ag
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cbr said:

I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.
What is it about the Unsullied that leads you to believe there is a 100% chance they scatter like chickens and run? Surely this happened before and I missed it.

Look, not trying to start another slap fight, but this is kind of my point. Y'all are so wound up about every little detail that you're now coming up with scenarios that are much more ridiculous than anything these writers everyone seems to hate have come up with.

The Unsullied would do one thing. Follow orders. If Grey Worm orders them to dig in and defend their queen, they did in and defend their queen. A phalanx, whatever. There is not one scrap of history in the show or books that indicates they would do anything less. But since GOT sucks now the Unsullied would soil themselves and run. C'mon man.
pagerman @ work
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clinker03 said:

Quote:

Its also impossible for them to think cersi was going to surrender or that she was not going to kill missandre, so what was the point of marching up to the gate before your army even arrives? Of course no way she doesnt kill tyrion either, but thats irrelevant because there is no way she doesnt kill them all.
I don't think they had any intention of her surrendering. The scene right before it, they made it clear that they were just asking her to surrender so that when Dany killed everyone in King's landing, the survivors knew that she gave Cersei a peaceful option and that death and destruction wasn't their first choice. Argue it all you want, but that's what the show writers were going for.

And Cersei is playing a similar game, trying to goad Dany into lashing out and doing something stupid in order to frame her not as a liberator but rather more of the same from the Targaryens, partly in order to legitimize her rule. Hence the whole "letting everyone into the Red Keep" thing. She doesn't care about the people of KL, but she is making essentially a PR move.

Doing something like violating a truce in broad daylight does not forward that agenda as

CoachRTM
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gigemJTH12 said:

Damn..
Meh, you can take this whatever way you want.


Maybe she thinks it's awful.
Maybe she is reacting because it doesn't end well for her character.
Maybe she freaked out because she wasn't ready to respond to a spoiler-type question.
Champ Bailey
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I can't believe it's wednesday and people are still talking about the physics behind the Scorpion. Some people.
cbr
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Urban Ag said:

Triggered?

I'm not the one trying to convince people on a message board that something sucks. If I thought it sucked, I wouldn't be watching. I certainly wouldn't be dedicating my time to trying to convince you something you enjoy is terrible. What's the point, really? Everyone gets y'all think the show sucks and you're going to pick apart everything single detail to make that point. I've honestly never seen anything like it.

That seems like a better example of being "triggered".
No one is trying to convince anyone of anything. this is a long thread discussing a tv show.

The show was so great for so long it has become fun to discuss

Lots of people are dissappointed in recent episodes so thats part of the discussion.

It makes no sense whatsoever to get mad, or insult each other over a tv show.

Just keep discussing, or not, if you arent enjoying the discussion. No reason for anyone to be mad.

I think there are recent plot holes that just cant be made sense of...other people are providing ways they think they can make sense of them. Its a good discussion and part of the distraction from real life problems for a bit.
wangus12
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chipotle said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Damn..


yikes. That was like a "pregnant dany gets executed by jon" face.
Yeah if you watch a lot of the main cast interviews, they certainly seem to all come across as disappointed with how its gonna end when asked about the filming
bearamedic99
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Can we all agree that the most rightful claim to the throne now belongs to Gendry Baratheon?


No the Baratheons are thieves

The throne belongs to him/her who is powerful enough to possess it
cbr
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Urban Ag said:

cbr said:

I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.
What is it about the Unsullied that leads you to believe there is a 100% chance they scatter like chickens and run? Surely this happened before and I missed it.

Look, not trying to start another slap fight, but this is kind of my point. Y'all are so wound up about every little detail that you're now coming up with scenarios that are much more ridiculous than anything these writers everyone seems to hate have come up with.

The Unsullied would do one thing. Follow orders. If Grey Worm orders them to dig in and defend their queen, they did in and defend their queen. A phalanx, whatever. There is not one scrap of history in the show or books that indicates they would do anything less. But since GOT sucks now the Unsullied would soil themselves and run. C'mon man.
Ok, fair point. So they die honorably and dont run. No worries on a 'slap fight', its all in fun.
jtstanley4621
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The thing that annoys me about plot hand wringing in general is that if the thing you're saying SHOULD have happen did happen, the story would grind to a stop.

If Cersei told her archers to fire at Dany and Drogon, they'd all be dead and there would be no more conflict.

If Dany had circled around with Drogon from behind and torched the ships, there would be no more Euron and Cersei would be crippled.

The reason these things don't happen is because if they did, the story would come to a pretty abrupt halt. And for what it's worth, I didn't like that Rhaegal got sniped. But not because of the logistics of the shot. I didn't like it because it felt incredibly forced and random for the sake of being shocking.
SupaManu
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Champ Bailey said:

I can't believe it's wednesday and people are still talking about the physics behind the Scorpion. Some people.
I know its laughable, of all the things to gripe and argue nonstop about
canadiaggie
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bearamedic99 said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Can we all agree that the most rightful claim to the throne now belongs to Gendry Baratheon?


No the Baratheons are thieves

The throne belongs to him/her who is powerful enough to possess it


Let's say we get a super vanilla ending where Jon dies or goes to live as an exile in the north with Tormund and Co., and Dany wins the throne and is still childless. You'd think that Gendry would be a sudden favourite for the throne as Dany's successor. Baratheons are of Valyrian descent, the first Baratheon was probably a Targ *******, and Gendry's great grandmother was a Targ. Not to mention he'd be lord of the Stormlands plus the son of a past king. I can't see anyone with a better claim, even if Gendry is a legitimised *******.

Fun speculation.
bobinator
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Yeah, I don't think this scene is all that complicated. In fact it's the one scene from this episode that I don't have much problem with.

Here's my summary:

1) Drogon isn't in range. Clearly from the blocking of this scene, being behind the others, he's supposed to be out of range. We don't need to break out the protractors and compasses, that's pretty clearly the idea. If you need a narrative reason, maybe these are Gen1 scorpions from the Qyburn scorpion factory. The first scorpions to come off the line were put up the protect the city, but now they're making even better ones and they're mounting those to the boats as offensive weapons. Who cares.

2) Everyone else is in range. If Cersei wanted to kill them all, she could.

So, why didn't she?

She knows her best chance of winning is by Dany's whole army attacking as soon as possible. They're tired, low on supplies, far from home, etc. She doesn't want to give them time to regroup, so she's trying to provoke Dany into having her whole army attack.

She knows that if Dany falls, the Starks are in charge. She knows how good at leading an army the Starks have been historically, and that they would likely pull back, regroup, etc. PLUS if she massacres Dany, Tyrion and some of these warriors during a Parlay, it may even get more houses to go over to the other side.

AND if she's able to say that 'we didn't attack anyone, they attacked us' she might be able to get some support from the people and whoever else.

So with all of that, I think it makes perfect sense not to break the sacred rules of parlay and murder everyone on the spot.
double aught
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Not to interrupt the arguing, but:

Anyone ever wonder why some character names sound made up while others are normal?

Tyrion, Daenerys, Davos
vs
Jon, Rob, Jaime

I mean, what's up with that?
cbr
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jtstanley4621 said:

The thing that annoys me about plot hand wringing in general is that if the thing you're saying SHOULD have happen did happen, the story would grind to a stop.

If Cersei told her archers to fire at Dany and Drogon, they'd all be dead and there would be no more conflict.

If Dany had circled around with Drogon from behind and torched the ships, there would be no more Euron and Cersei would be crippled.

The reason these things don't happen is because if they did, the story would come to a pretty abrupt halt. And for what it's worth, I didn't like that Rhaegal got sniped. But not because of the logistics of the shot. I didn't like it because it felt incredibly forced and random for the sake of being shocking.
I agree on it being forced and awkward. Thats the whole pattern for much of season 8, such a change from prior seasons. I can get over a bit of stupidity for artistic license. Crossbow range, surrounded heroes surviving, whatever, none of that ruins it for me at all.

But the kl scene just should have set up totally differently, it takes the fun away when no one is acting logically at all, everyone is out of character, even the script was pretty bad.

chipotle
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Gendry is nobody unless Dany wins. Maybe that happens, then someone kills the mad dragon queen then a newly legitimized gendry sits on the throne after jon abdicates to warden the north and finally pet his dire wolf.
Phrasing
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canadiaggie said:

cbr said:

I'll put it this way. Even assuming the dragon was out of crossbow range and the passle of idiots was out of bow range, which they visually were not, then just Ride 100 mounted archers out the gate and mow them down.

99.9% chance you kill them all. 100% chance you get to watch them all scatter like chickens and run off in the dust, including the queen in her skirt. No way the dragon saves them in time, and if he tries he has to come in low, in range, in broad daylight, in an open field, right in the center of their crossbow killing field.

Even if it all goes wrong you only lose 100 dudes.


Maybe Cersei's plan is to let them gather and defeat them in one swoop? If she killed the entourage here and now, Jon just goes back North, Dorne possibly rebels, and Euron has to take back the Iron Islands. All this in winter. Presumably Cersei's line of credit only runs so deep with the Iron Bank and she can't afford a protracted campaign of trying to reel in the other kingdoms.

Just my internal justification.
This makes a lot of sense to me. There are still a lot of enemies out there, even if she kills Dany, Tyrion and Grey Worm at the parlay. Dany is the one rushing into it - let her continue to make mistakes and take them out all at once.
Phrasing
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pagerman @ work said:

clinker03 said:

Quote:

Its also impossible for them to think cersi was going to surrender or that she was not going to kill missandre, so what was the point of marching up to the gate before your army even arrives? Of course no way she doesnt kill tyrion either, but thats irrelevant because there is no way she doesnt kill them all.
I don't think they had any intention of her surrendering. The scene right before it, they made it clear that they were just asking her to surrender so that when Dany killed everyone in King's landing, the survivors knew that she gave Cersei a peaceful option and that death and destruction wasn't their first choice. Argue it all you want, but that's what the show writers were going for.

And Cersei is playing a similar game, trying to goad Dany into lashing out and doing something stupid in order to frame her not as a liberator but rather more of the same from the Targaryens, partly in order to legitimize her rule. Hence the whole "letting everyone into the Red Keep" thing. She doesn't care about the people of KL, but she is making essentially a PR move.

Doing something like violating a truce in broad daylight does not forward that agenda as


Yes! Totes magotes.
bearamedic99
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Urban Ag said:

clinker03 said:

M.C. Swag said:

kraut said:

M.C. Swag said:

The two situations don't equate man. The second Cersei kills Dany in the pit is the second that Drogon fire annihilates everyone in that courtyard. It was a lose/lose proposition. That is not even close to what could happen now with her surrounded by Super Cross Bows. Dany offers no threat to Cersei. And it makes no sense to 'honor' the parlay when you just executed Missandei with obvious intentions of provocation. You're completely glossing over that. Cersei killed Missandei, but spared Tyrion? Why? She literally sent an assassin to kill him. Wouldn't see relish in doing the deed herself? C'mon man. You can't keep goal tending this one.
Cercei told Danni to surrender unconditionally or Missandei dies. She was keeping her word at the parlay.
So she honors the pledge to kill Missandei, but not to send an army north? She honors the rules of parlay, but blowing up a church is fair game? C'mon man.
I think you can argue it from either side - but with the show writing the way it is this season, you have to have certain assumptions, even if they are not 100% logical in the scientific/physics world:

(1) Drogon was out of range of the ballistas
(2) Dany and her small contingent was out of range of the arrows
(3) Tryion came into range of the arrows when he walked past Qyburn (this is why the archers nocked and pulled back)
(4) Cersei chose not to kill him for some reason. I think because killing him meant losing Qyburn in this scenario. Or it could have been she wanted to kill him herself up close - who knows.
(5) If she sends out an army to kill everyone, she risks a dragon attack. Killing Drogon with the crossbows is not 100% - it is still a risk.
Quote:

(4) Cersei chose not to kill him for some reason. I think because killing him meant losing Qyburn in this scenario.

And no woman wants to change gynos mid pregnancy. Great point.


POTD, shut her down
canadiaggie
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chipotle said:

Gendry is nobody unless Dany wins. Maybe that happens, then someone kills the mad dragon queen then a newly legitimized gendry sits on the throne after jon abdicates to warden the north and finally pet his dire wolf.


Yeah everything you said would have to happen for Gendry to sniff the throne. I was tailoring it to that possible (if unlikely) ending
Phrasing
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double aught said:

Not to interrupt the arguing, but:

Anyone ever wonder why some character names sound made up while others are normal?

Tyrion, Daenerys, Davos
vs
Jon, Rob, Jaime

I mean, what's up with that?
I know, right? The best one is Harry Strickland - the leader of the Golden Company that we have only seen once. If that isn't the waspiest / stock broker name and so out of place, then I don't know what is.

Sounds like it is short for Harrison Strickland, III.
bearamedic99
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Champ Bailey said:

I can't believe it's wednesday and people are still talking about the physics behind the Scorpion. Some people.


Yeah, I feel like we are entering the 8th Overtime of beating a dead horse regarding Cersei acting in character at the parlay and the ballista.
bearamedic99
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double aught said:

Not to interrupt the arguing, but:

Anyone ever wonder why some character names sound made up while others are normal?

Tyrion, Daenerys, Davos
vs
Jon, Rob, Jaime

I mean, what's up with that?


Not today, ISIS. Nice try
bonfarr
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clinker03 said:

double aught said:

Not to interrupt the arguing, but:

Anyone ever wonder why some character names sound made up while others are normal?

Tyrion, Daenerys, Davos
vs
Jon, Rob, Jaime

I mean, what's up with that?
I know, right? The best one is Harry Strickland - the leader of the Golden Company that we have only seen once. If that isn't the waspiest / stock broker name and so out of place, then I don't know what is.

Sounds like it is short for Harrison Strickland, III.


Some names were well thought out and seem important to the story and others seem like Martin pulled them from a phone book.

One interesting theory I read was speculation that because of his name Varys could be a descendant of the Blackfyres so he has Targaryen blood. His name is spelled in the traditional way of the Targaryens and he was from Essos like the exiled Blackfyres and there had to be a reason the wizard guy chose him as a boy for his ritual.



Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
agsquirrel97
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wangus12 said:

chipotle said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Damn..


yikes. That was like a "pregnant dany gets executed by jon" face.
Yeah if you watch a lot of the main cast interviews, they certainly seem to all come across as disappointed with how its gonna end when asked about the filming
the Colbert interview that was posted before the season gave me the feeling that Emilia wasn't happy with the season.

https://youtu.be/wWdXfX4Vpm8?t=281
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