Drogon is the darkest dragon. He's still alive.
****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******
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Last: 2 yr ago by Prosperdick
Any way Sansa could turn on Jon since he is not "family" anymore? I know his mom was a Stark but his true lineage is a Targ now correct? They have really been pushing the whole Sansa is just trying to protect her family idea since last season (especially with the blind distrust of Dany). I'm wondering that since now she knows the truth, maybe she will look at Jon differently and not trust him. He did already swear allegiance to Dany without consulting them.
I think she wants him on the iron throne because he is family and that also puts her as the lady of winterfell.clinker03 said:
Any way Sansa could turn on Jon since he is not "family" anymore? I know his mom was a Stark but his true lineage is a Targ now correct? They have really been pushing the whole Sansa is just trying to protect her family idea since last season (especially with the blind distrust of Dany). I'm wondering that since now she knows the truth, maybe she will look at Jon differently and not trust him. He did already swear allegiance to Dany without consulting them.
dcAg said:
A buddy of mine has a theory that JRRM will release the next book in the series within the next year then the final book within the next year. Not totally JK Rowling style but something to that effect.
Your buddy's theory is about as realistic as most of the fan theories I've seen. Maybe Holland Reed will edit it and the Night King can fly it to the publisher on his dragon.
What would Sansa "turning" on Jon even look like? He's the Warden of the North. And Arya is off doing her own thing. She's not going to side with Cersei. So other than changing the locks at Winterfell I don't really know what it is that Sansa can do at this point other than be mad at him?clinker03 said:
Any way Sansa could turn on Jon since he is not "family" anymore? I know his mom was a Stark but his true lineage is a Targ now correct? They have really been pushing the whole Sansa is just trying to protect her family idea since last season (especially with the blind distrust of Dany). I'm wondering that since now she knows the truth, maybe she will look at Jon differently and not trust him. He did already swear allegiance to Dany without consulting them.
I guess in theory she could get the northern Lord's to refuse any support for Jon/Dany. I don't know why she would but it's possible considering D&D seem to just make it up as they go now.
It would kind of undercut her pinning the Stark pin on Theon if she now suddenly doesn't consider Jon family.
Well she better hurry cause we're down to two episodes.
I'd call the Glovers first, they don't like him, this is known.
I'd call the Glovers first, they don't like him, this is known.
yeah, good point. Not totally sure - the thought came to me and I was thinking as I was typing. My guess would be that (1) she is already upset at him for swearing an oath to Dany without telling her, (2) she doesn't like the fact that he continues to support Dany even knowing his claim is better, (3) she wants independence from King's Landing and Dany has not said that it is an option, and (4) his continued blind support of Dany futher pisses her off.Urban Ag said:What would Sansa "turning" on Jon even look like? He's the Warden of the North. And Arya is off doing her own thing. She's not going to side with Cersei. So other than changing the locks at Winterfell I don't really know what it is that Sansa can do at this point other than be mad at him?clinker03 said:
Any way Sansa could turn on Jon since he is not "family" anymore? I know his mom was a Stark but his true lineage is a Targ now correct? They have really been pushing the whole Sansa is just trying to protect her family idea since last season (especially with the blind distrust of Dany). I'm wondering that since now she knows the truth, maybe she will look at Jon differently and not trust him. He did already swear allegiance to Dany without consulting them.
The conflict would come into play if Jon continues to support Dany and doesn't support North independence. Still not sure what she could do about it - the whole North looks to him as a hero.
Andyes, only 2 episodes left - this isn't making a lot of sense as I think about it more.....delete post/ban user
Urban Ag said:What would Sansa "turning" on Jon even look like? He's the Warden of the North. And Arya is off doing her own thing. She's not going to side with Cersei. So other than changing the locks at Winterfell I don't really know what it is that Sansa can do at this point other than be mad at him?clinker03 said:
Any way Sansa could turn on Jon since he is not "family" anymore? I know his mom was a Stark but his true lineage is a Targ now correct? They have really been pushing the whole Sansa is just trying to protect her family idea since last season (especially with the blind distrust of Dany). I'm wondering that since now she knows the truth, maybe she will look at Jon differently and not trust him. He did already swear allegiance to Dany without consulting them.
Some of the other Lords in the North got pissed when Snow went South before and publicly declared Sansa should be the ruling Stark. She shut the talk down but Sansa could definitely stir some **** up with some of the other houses.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
that is an ex-dragonM.C. Swag said:
Rhaegal took 2 spears to the chest and 1 through the neck. Then crashed into the ocean. Guys, he's as dead as a door nail.
Sansa wants what she thinks is best for the North, and if it's not going to be free, then Jon on the throne is the next best/closest thing.
Would she have any aspirations for the throne though? The show hasn't really shown us that, but wouldn't put it past D&D to throw something like that out there.
In a way it's actually the very first thing they ever showed us about Sansa's character. Of course back then she wanted to marry a prince and go to fancy parties and whatnot, so she might not have wanted the iron throne directly but she still wanted to be the queen.clinker03 said:
Would she have any aspirations for the throne though? The show hasn't really shown us that, but wouldn't put it past D&D to throw something like that out there.
I don't think her goal has changed. She's just much much better at playing the game now than she was as a kid, and why she wants to be queen has changed.
Ratings for the worst show on TV are incredible - imagine if 90% of the "fans" didn't hate it.
Quote:
Sunday's installment of the HBO juggernaut, "The Last of the Starks," featured the dawn of a new battle (and an errant coffee cup). It drew 11.8 million viewers for its first airing, down a scant 2 percent from the previous week.
The April 28 episode, "The Long Night," drew the show's second-largest initial audience ever (12.02 million viewers) on its way to a single-night record of 17.8 million after replays and streaming. That figure surpassed the 17.4 million for the season eight premiere on April 14.
The 11.8 million who tuned in Sunday is the third-most in the series' history for an initial airing, behind only the season seven finale (12.07 million) and the previous week.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-final-season-episode-4-ratings-still-huge-1208273
That's 11.8M in US before streaming and replays which add about 50% to the first night.
International and other platforms and those who wait to stream the entire season take most episodes into the 25-30M range.
If nothing else he can sit back and see how the ending they chose would be received, and change as necessaryBryan98 said:I kind of wouldn't doubt it at this point. I also wouldn't be surprised at all if George's final act is much better than the show's.dcAg said:
A buddy of mine has a theory that JRRM will release the next book in the series within the next year then the final book within the next year. Not totally JK Rowling style but something to that effect.
yeah, I think it would tie back into Season 1 nicely. And you could say that all her life experiences have helped her attain the throne, just in a different way - by winning it and not marrying into it.
Yeah, I personally still don't think anyone is going to end up on the iron throne, but it wouldn't be out of character at all for Sansa to want to be the one that wins it in the end.
I think her life experiences have changed her more than that. I am not sold she wants to be queen, at least not in Kings landing. I feel she believes her place is ruling at Winterfell. If anything she would want an independent north to rule.
You guys make good points about Sansa and her motivations and distrust of Dany. I think my brain is just stuck in the mode of this is going to be over very soon as either Jon, Dany, or both won't be around anymore anyways. At least IMO. But Sansa is still playing her game for the protection of her house/family.
I just don't see a scenario where Sansa really has anything to fear. If Dany comes out on top, there is no way Dany goes to war with the North. First, if it comes to a siege of KL, Dany will lose most of whatever army she has left in the process. And the writers have essentially made the dragon(s) useless at this point. Second, even if Sansa were defiant I can't see Dany taking arms against the north. Period. If Jon, or Tyrion, or pretty much and of the others (ridiculous or not) end up on the throne, she's obviously fine.
But at that point this is all post series theorizing as we'll never see it happen.
I just don't see a scenario where Sansa really has anything to fear. If Dany comes out on top, there is no way Dany goes to war with the North. First, if it comes to a siege of KL, Dany will lose most of whatever army she has left in the process. And the writers have essentially made the dragon(s) useless at this point. Second, even if Sansa were defiant I can't see Dany taking arms against the north. Period. If Jon, or Tyrion, or pretty much and of the others (ridiculous or not) end up on the throne, she's obviously fine.
But at that point this is all post series theorizing as we'll never see it happen.
She hasn't said or shown that that's what she wants only because it seems extremely unlikely and she knows it. She knows her path to the throne is blocked in a few ways, so if she has to she seems content to stay at Winterfell... but given the chance to take the throne I would absolutely expect her to.Fenrir said:
I am not sold she wants to be queen, at least not in Kings landing. I feel she believes her place is ruling at Winterfell. If anything she would want an independent north to rule.
Agree with that. And even if she wanted the IT, how would she get it? Her and what army?Fenrir said:
I think her life experiences have changed her more than that. I am not sold she wants to be queen, at least not in Kings landing. I feel she believes her place is ruling at Winterfell. If anything she would want an independent north to rule.
Good lord, some of y'all are insufferable.
1. Rhaegal is dead. RIP
2. Jaime is going back to KL because he knows his story ends with Cersei. Either he's going to try and save her from killing herself, possibly be able to convince Dany to spare her life, or kill her himself. After all, she is carrying his baby and the heir to the Lannister dynasty. But he's not going to try and "be with her". What changed from him wanting to stay to deciding to go was that he saw Cersei could potentially win, and he knows he can't let her kill all of these good people for her own selfish power-hungry reasons. He'll try to convince Cersei to give up and save the baby and it probably won't work which results in him killing her, but he's not going back to join her side in the battle against Dany and Jon.
3. The Unsullied were far enough away from the walls to avoid the arrows. Anyone who watched that scene and thought the Unsullied were in danger is a miserable old grouch who hate-watches this show now. Like really, it's such a blatantly obvious staging decision, there's absolutely NO reason to assume they put themselves in danger unless you're purposely trying to find reasons to hate the show.
There's a difference between criticizing the show (like how did Olenna really unscrew a rock from Sansa's necklace without her noticing and putting it in Joffrey's drink without him or anyone else noticing, or how Arya survived the Waif attack on the bridge, how did Rickon NOT zigzag, how did Mance actually believe Jon that he would betray the Night Watch, how did Sansa and Theon not break both their legs when they jumped from the Winterfell wall or Arya jumping out that window while the Waif was chasing her) and complaining about the army being too close to the wall and susceptible to arrows.
1. Rhaegal is dead. RIP
2. Jaime is going back to KL because he knows his story ends with Cersei. Either he's going to try and save her from killing herself, possibly be able to convince Dany to spare her life, or kill her himself. After all, she is carrying his baby and the heir to the Lannister dynasty. But he's not going to try and "be with her". What changed from him wanting to stay to deciding to go was that he saw Cersei could potentially win, and he knows he can't let her kill all of these good people for her own selfish power-hungry reasons. He'll try to convince Cersei to give up and save the baby and it probably won't work which results in him killing her, but he's not going back to join her side in the battle against Dany and Jon.
3. The Unsullied were far enough away from the walls to avoid the arrows. Anyone who watched that scene and thought the Unsullied were in danger is a miserable old grouch who hate-watches this show now. Like really, it's such a blatantly obvious staging decision, there's absolutely NO reason to assume they put themselves in danger unless you're purposely trying to find reasons to hate the show.
There's a difference between criticizing the show (like how did Olenna really unscrew a rock from Sansa's necklace without her noticing and putting it in Joffrey's drink without him or anyone else noticing, or how Arya survived the Waif attack on the bridge, how did Rickon NOT zigzag, how did Mance actually believe Jon that he would betray the Night Watch, how did Sansa and Theon not break both their legs when they jumped from the Winterfell wall or Arya jumping out that window while the Waif was chasing her) and complaining about the army being too close to the wall and susceptible to arrows.
Also, we're up against time for any new plot lines. Two episodes left, when does Sansa's betraying get done? If he's off fighting in the war, then are they just going to leave it at the end of the series him not knowing he was betrayed? Or I guess they could rush that through on a whirlwind "tie everything up" montage.
At this point, with all of the build up of plots and where quickly running out of time, I'm going to call the ending as such: George RR Martin wakes up in his homeless cardboard box after passing out from trading sex for some black tar herion to find that this whole thing has only been a dream
At this point, with all of the build up of plots and where quickly running out of time, I'm going to call the ending as such: George RR Martin wakes up in his homeless cardboard box after passing out from trading sex for some black tar herion to find that this whole thing has only been a dream
yeah, she would have to play some pretty big political games to get Yara back and Dorne - combine that with what's left of the North and the Riverlands and there's just not enough time. Only way it would happen that I could see would be if Dany dies, Cersei dies and Jon abdicates to her so he can return north.
I will say this, if D&D were handed a story with Dany sailing to Westeros with 3 dragons, the support of Yara's Greyjoys, the Tyrells, and the Dorne, as well as 8,000 Unsullied, 100,000 Dothraki, and the master's armada at the end of Season 6 (while Cersei had just blown up anyone of any relevance left in Kings Landing) and they STILL have her lose to Cersei? That would be the worst hatchet job in the history of hatchet jobs. Pretty much every single "that doesn't make any damn sense" thing that has happened since the beginning of Season 7 has gone against Dany. We're talking Rockets/Warriors type hatchet job.
If Dany dies killing Cersei, then that's fine, because she'll still fulfil her role as destroying tyrants and liberating people. But if they artificially handicap her like they have done the last two seasons just so Cersei could pull some BS win out of thin air, THAT would qualify as "horrible writing".
If Dany dies killing Cersei, then that's fine, because she'll still fulfil her role as destroying tyrants and liberating people. But if they artificially handicap her like they have done the last two seasons just so Cersei could pull some BS win out of thin air, THAT would qualify as "horrible writing".
clinker03 said:
yeah, she would have to play some pretty big political games to get Yara back and Dorne - combine that with what's left of the North and the Riverlands and there's just not enough time. Only way it would happen that I could see would be if Dany dies, Cersei dies and Jon abdicates to her so he can return north.
Playing the game of "Who's on your small council?" - who would you appoint in this hypothetical scenario. I would also assume Jamie dies in this saving Brienne. Euron, Grey Worm, Hound and Bronn are dead too.
Queen - Sansa
Hand - Tyrion
Master of Whispers - Varys
Master of Coin - Royce (the Vale has money right?)
Kingsguard - Brienne
Master of Ships - Yara
Grand Maester - Sam
Master of War - Davos
The dumbest thing that happened in the last episode was when Gendry Baratheon, Lord of Storm's End got down on one knee and made a modern day marriage proposal. I guess we'll all just have to mentally retcon that to something like "he doesnt know any better thats cuz thats how the commoners do it, or something"
I think her opinion of southern royalty and all that is different now than at the beginning of the show. I can't see anyway she dreams of the idea of being a lady in the court at oings landing after everything she has seen. Imo she realizes that the place she has support is in the north whereas the south has done nothing but make her life hell.
bobinator said:
That was like, three whole episodes ago, she could have a fleet big enough to conquer the whole world by now.
Apparently if one needs defenses, ships or funeral pyres, timber is stacked in huge piles throught Westeros.
It's hilarious that you have issues with the first 3, and then list all of these as "problems"smokeythebear said:
Good lord, some of y'all are insufferable.
1. Rhaegal is dead. RIP
2. Jaime is going back to KL because he knows his story ends with Cersei. Either he's going to try and save her from killing herself, possibly be able to convince Dany to spare her life, or kill her himself. After all, she is carrying his baby and the heir to the Lannister dynasty. But he's not going to try and "be with her". What changed from him wanting to stay to deciding to go was that he saw Cersei could potentially win, and he knows he can't let her kill all of these good people for her own selfish power-hungry reasons. He'll try to convince Cersei to give up and save the baby and it probably won't work which results in him killing her, but he's not going back to join her side in the battle against Dany and Jon.
3. The Unsullied were far enough away from the walls to avoid the arrows. Anyone who watched that scene and thought the Unsullied were in danger is a miserable old grouch who hate-watches this show now. Like really, it's such a blatantly obvious staging decision, there's absolutely NO reason to assume they put themselves in danger unless you're purposely trying to find reasons to hate the show.
There's a difference between criticizing the show (like how did Olenna really unscrew a rock from Sansa's necklace without her noticing and putting it in Joffrey's drink without him or anyone else noticing, or how Arya survived the Waif attack on the bridge, how did Rickon NOT zigzag, how did Mance actually believe Jon that he would betray the Night Watch, how did Sansa and Theon not break both their legs when they jumped from the Winterfell wall or Arya jumping out that window while the Waif was chasing her) and complaining about the army being too close to the wall and susceptible to arrows.
I have enjoyed the whole series, even this season (because it's what we get, no choice in the matter so there is no reason to tank my enjoyment of the whole series over it), but the writing this season particularly (meaning the final 6 episodes) has gone from writing as a good author would to Hollywood writing, where things happen not because they make sense but rather because a given thing needs to happen.
Has there been any explanation of why Dany would go back to Dragonstone? What did she need to do, check the mail? I can think of no reason to do so other than to come up with a way to kill another dragon. Given that you have an already diminished force, splitting them up makes no sense. Sailing blindly to Dragonstone like you're walking home from a friend's house because mom called and dinner is ready is also incredibly dumb. As Yara has already shown, it's incredibly easy to take over an empty island. You basically just show up. There was no thought given to the notion that the bad guys might have occupied the place in your (announced) absence?
My disappointment is that what has made this show so amazing is not dragons and zombies and knights and swords and witches but the writing, which was good enough to make things that are fundamentally silly (like dragons and zombies and knights and swords and witches) really interesting and entertaining.
I think they shortchanged themselves by a full season is bringing this to an end.
I still like the show, and have enjoyed every minute of watching it, but you just get the feeling that the writers could hear the clock ticking in the background when they were writing.
Has there been any explanation of why Dany would go back to Dragonstone? What did she need to do, check the mail? I can think of no reason to do so other than to come up with a way to kill another dragon. Given that you have an already diminished force, splitting them up makes no sense. Sailing blindly to Dragonstone like you're walking home from a friend's house because mom called and dinner is ready is also incredibly dumb. As Yara has already shown, it's incredibly easy to take over an empty island. You basically just show up. There was no thought given to the notion that the bad guys might have occupied the place in your (announced) absence?
My disappointment is that what has made this show so amazing is not dragons and zombies and knights and swords and witches but the writing, which was good enough to make things that are fundamentally silly (like dragons and zombies and knights and swords and witches) really interesting and entertaining.
I think they shortchanged themselves by a full season is bringing this to an end.
I still like the show, and have enjoyed every minute of watching it, but you just get the feeling that the writers could hear the clock ticking in the background when they were writing.
You know that knights and swords were/are real things in real life right?
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So why not give the story to Senor Spielbergo to get it right on HBO???Claude! said:dcAg said:
A buddy of mine has a theory that JRRM will release the next book in the series within the next year then the final book within the next year. Not totally JK Rowling style but something to that effect.
Jorge R.R. Martinez - he's the non-union Mexican equivalent.
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