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It. Is. Fiction. It doesn't have to make sense.

The dead walk (or did anyway). Dragons exist. Sorcerers conjure ghost demons. Blood magic is a thing. Suspend belief in our world and live the story through the fiction.

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It's not "realism" more than it's good, intelligent writing. That's what initially draws everyone in on these shows. They start out with visceral brilliance and wind up whimpering away with an over reliance on CGI and "dramatic" scenes obvious written by production writers vs. the original authors that started us off.

When the audience can easily pick apart plot holes it detracts from the overall experience. Scorpions knocking dragons out of the air is an preposterous as using catapults or trebuchets. It's convenient laziness. And who didn't see this coming? They tipped their hat with these earlier and we all knew they'd have dozens of them. My wife was like "yep, there they are".

aTmAg said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I loved how the ballistas, fired from small ships bobbing on waves, shredded a flying dragon from half a mile away; the US Navy couldn't have made that shot. You could practically hear the last-minute brain-storming session in which the writers said "well we need to kill a dragon so... sh*t, ballistas?" It reminded me of the "Thank God we invented the..., you know, whatever device," scene from Thank you for Smoking in which they're discussing how they'll explain away smoking on an oxygen-filled space station in an upcoming movie.

For years, Game of Thrones' main draw was its merciless realism. They've completely dumped that for all the same Hollywood plot and character cliches. Definitely still a fun show, but not the same one of 2-3 seasons ago.

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So I'll watch it again, but on my TV those arrows were really hard to see in flight. My assumption was that 100 of them were shot and 3 of them landed. And that the only reason Dani's dragon wasn't hit was because she was behind the other one.

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No. the first struck Rhaegal directly from the front in the chest. they were heading right into it.

Oddly a later one went through from 90 degrees from the side - I don't think he had turned much at that point.

they did shoot a few dozen at Drogon/Dany on the second volley as she dived at them but they all missed when she abruptly turned.

she should have gone either way above them out of range or behind them assuming those guns could not turn to the back as they were front mounted - and of course the ships could not turn quickly.

Kate Beckett said:

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Not related to last night but I was Arya Stark at Fan Expo Dallas and had to share this photo.

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Nice

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I am totally fine with Dany burning King's Landing and everyone in it. Southerners did nothing to save the realm from the Night King.

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I am too, but with only one dragon and an apparently unlimited supply of scorpions, I'm not real optimistic about that.

Seems to be the only thing that may have made sense in this episode

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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aTmAg said:

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Deputy Travis Junior said:

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I loved how the ballistas, fired from small ships bobbing on waves, shredded a flying dragon from half a mile away; the US Navy couldn't have made that shot. You could practically hear the last-minute brain-storming session in which the writers said "well we need to kill a dragon so... sh*t, ballistas?" It reminded me of the "Thank God we invented the..., you know, whatever device," scene from Thank you for Smoking in which they're discussing how they'll explain away smoking on an oxygen-filled space station in an upcoming movie.

For years, Game of Thrones' main draw was its merciless realism. They've completely dumped that for all the same Hollywood plot and character cliches. Definitely still a fun show, but not the same one of 2-3 seasons ago.

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So I'll watch it again, but on my TV those arrows were really hard to see in flight. My assumption was that 100 of them were shot and 3 of them landed. And that the only reason Dani's dragon wasn't hit was because she was behind the other one.

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No. the first struck Rhaegal directly from the front in the chest. they were heading right into it.

Oddly a later one went through from 90 degrees from the side - I don't think he had turned much at that point.

they did shoot a few dozen at Drogon/Dany on the second volley as she dived at them but they all missed when she abruptly turned.

she should have gone either way above them out of range or behind them assuming those guns could not turn to the back as they were front mounted - and of course the ships could not turn quickly.

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If true, then they screwed that up

G Martin 87 said:

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Skipped the past several hundred posts.

So. How about that Starbucks cup?

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I missed that. Where was it?

Sine poena nulla lex.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/kO46rUHjHaYVQeEUHplZudUhlfk=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16213168/got_starbucks_wide.gif

CoachRTM said:

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I feel sorry for people who can't just enjoy the show.

This season has been entertaining as hell.

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I don't find hugely disappointing all that entertaining. Mildly entertaining is about as far as I can go now.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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aggie-master said:

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Who do yall want on the iron throne at this point?

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My prediction before the season started was Gendry.

We're much closer to that possibility now.

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I'm sticking with my original prediction that Sansa will end up on the throne by default.

Cersei didn't come north to fight the WW army, and she's sitting pretty right now. I'm not saying that Sansa took a lesson from this, but the fact that she won't be involved in the battle at KL greatly increases Sansa's odds of ending up being the last Stark left alive.

I still think Dany ultimately survives the battle but chooses to leave Westeros.

aTmAg said:

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bobinator said:

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I don't know if you blocked me or what but that's not at all what war was like a thousand years ago.

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I have not blocked anybody. If I missed your post, then I just missed it.

But I'd suggest you read up on Genghis Kahn, They were ruthless back then, and that was less than 1000 years ago.

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I know this is an argument from five pages ago now, but I just now got on today...

The reason you have heard of Genghis Khan is because he's one of the people that did this. He was an exception, not the rule.

The vast majority of fighting back before the 19th century more or less boiled down to one team of paid fighters fighting another team of paid fighters, and then whoever won got the castle/lands/whatever. Trying to win so completely that you took away the other side's ability to make war is (relatively speaking) a new thing.

Most fighting did not involve the civilian populations, certainly not fighting between two groups of the same country/race/etc.

There were some exceptions when someone decided to go full genocide on people, but those were so rare that we still remember a lot of them today however many thousand years later. Khan, the Romans at Carthage, etc.

So, if. Cersei hired Bronn to kill Jamie and Tyrion with Riverrun as a reward, and Tyrion and Jamie had to double the reward not to be killed, wouldn't Bronn also have to kill Cersei to get Highgarden?

I know it is a common and tired gripe, but here's the time-warping part I don't get:

You can never really know how much time has passed between events, but in KL you actually have a clock - Cersei's non-existent baby bump. She was pregnant at the undead demonstration and likely wasn't showing when Euron boned her, because he put his hand on her flat belly and said he was going to fill it.

Just before the undead meeting, Drogon torches "Qybern's Scorpion" on the road, implying that it was the only one built from his new design. Then the undead meeting and the Dothraki and Undead do the Haka out front before Dany arrives. Not a scorpion in sight.

Now fast forward a little bit of time, because Cersei still isn't showing - and they have scorpions mounted on every ship and every wall. That's some seriously quick building from what labor force?

I like the episode overall. Yes, they invented a lousy way to even the odds with the dragon kill, but the conversations and characters were great.

Oh yeah, Tormund doesn't give a crap about the deep south and its politics, but he cares about his friend. His speech foretold that he owes him one and he will help once things "go south" for Jon.

Southlake said:

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So, if. Cersei hired Bronn to kill Jamie and Tyrion with Riverrun as a reward, and Tyrion and Jamie had to double the reward not to be killed, wouldn't Bronn also have to kill Cersei to get Highgarden?

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No. Highgarden is in exchange for the information and obviously not killing them on the spot. Bronn's betting on Dany winning.

That part, while not exactly how I'd have shot it, made complete logical sense that Bronn would hedge there.

gambochaman said:

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FYI, Cersei is a lying hoar and has never been pregnant

HTH

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Been saying that for 2 years

I'm not an avid complainer but the timeline for next week is going to be tricky. How can they justify Jon, Jamie, Arya, and the Hound getting to the battle on time?

My guess is dany actually does go "collect" herself for a few weeks and it makes that obvious. If not, it's going to be glaring this time. And not even in a nit picky kind of way.

Not really. We've thrown travel time out the window for a while now. Anyone can basically show up anywhere and it's fine.

I half expected Arya to come in behind Cersei and kill her during that standoff.

bobinator said:

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aTmAg said:

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bobinator said:

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I don't know if you blocked me or what but that's not at all what war was like a thousand years ago.

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I have not blocked anybody. If I missed your post, then I just missed it.

But I'd suggest you read up on Genghis Kahn, They were ruthless back then, and that was less than 1000 years ago.

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I know this is an argument from five pages ago now, but I just now got on today...

The reason you have heard of Genghis Khan is because he's one of the people that did this. He was an exception, not the rule.

The vast majority of fighting back before the 19th century more or less boiled down to one team of paid fighters fighting another team of paid fighters, and then whoever won got the castle/lands/whatever. Trying to win so completely that you took away the other side's ability to make war is (relatively speaking) a new thing.

Most fighting did not involve the civilian populations, certainly not fighting between two groups of the same country/race/etc.

There were some exceptions when someone decided to go full genocide on people, but those were so rare that we still remember a lot of them today however many thousand years later. Khan, the Romans at Carthage, etc.

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I don't want to turn this thread into a history argument, but look up the list of wars by death toll. There were many ancient wars where 100s of thousands or even millions died. Many of the dead were civilians. I agree that killing 100% of the population was not common, it was common to kill a bunch and then sell the rest to slavery. Either way, the population and society is destroyed.

Brian Earl Spilner said:

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Opening scene of the battle at KL:

All the scorpions are aimed at Dany and her small army. Cersei has them dead to rights.

Suddenly, magical portals start opening all around them.

And through the portals enter:
Tormund & Ghost with a wilding army;
the Dorne army;
the Tully army;
the Second Sons;
Brienne & Pod;
The Hound & Arya;
Jaime;
Nymeria & her band of wolves;
Jon leading the Unsullied & Dothraki;
a ghost Stark army;
and Howland Reed.

Music swells.

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I made this joke a week ago and 10 people spent the next 5 pages trying to get me banned.

Bunk - I see that, but I would have thought maybe Tyrion could have bargained in that manner.

And, I was thinking the same thing with the Scorpions lined up along the walls, the Dragon could swoop down in tactical surprise and in one line of fire destroy all of them? Again, seems the Dragons are used poorly.

Also, with Dany walking away, do you think she's going back to regroup and heal as advised by Sansa and Tyrion before moving on to KL?

gigemJTH12 said:

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I'm not an avid complainer but the timeline for next week is going to be tricky. How can they justify Jon, Jamie, Arya, and the Hound getting to the battle on time?

My guess is dany actually does go "collect" herself for a few weeks and it makes that obvious. If not, it's going to be glaring this time. And not even in a nit picky kind of way.

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Seems like Dany and Tyrion are at dragonstone for some scenes, and Jon's timetable is 2 weeks