****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

1,126,753 Views | 14599 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Urban Ag
Urban Ag
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So anyone think that Varys will truly re-enter the GOT and move against Dany? Stealthy coup d' etat?

No reason the believe he is not sincere in what he has told Tyrion.

M.C. Swag
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

They agreed to a parlay there. That's why the two advisors met halfway to discuss terms. They obviously did not come to attack and both Queens were out there (on foot and in dresses) which they never would be if any fighting was going to take place.

That's it.

Generally speaking you don't shoot during an armistice discussion.




Generally speaking Cersei doesn't play by the rules. She literally blew up a holy place of worship with hundreds of innocent bystanders in/around the blast zone. Why exactly would she suddenly care about the rules of 'parlay' when her biggest adversary and 'known' threat to her people is so obviously exposed?

It didn't/doesn't make sense not to at least kill Tyrion on spot. Especially given how Missandei was handled.
Phrasing
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I also thought it was interesting the OCC hosts had such an issue with the show - they usually defend the show, but are fair when their are plot holes. But Ross tore into that episode pretty good - with the same frustrations many here have already discussed.

One thing that stood out, and this may have been discussed on here already, but thinking back - Dany has really gotten such bad advice from her advisers which has caused her to lose so many people, two dragons and pretty much all her leverage.

What would you have done differently if you were her looking back? Take KL right away and then look north?

Also, anyone think Varys is going to follow through on his hint of assassination?

Edit - Urban Ag beat me to the Varys question!
redline248
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gigemJTH12 said:

Did anyone listen to Oysters Clams and Cockles this week?

Ross was so confused on the Tyrion/Sansa conversation. He thought Tyrion already knew about Jons lineage before that. That bran told him.

Blows my mind someone with a big podcast like that could be SO confused on something so obvious(that Sansa told him right there)


That's pretty astonishing. Why would anyone think Bran told that Tyrion? Another example of viewers feeling in the blatant gaps left by the writers? Basically, "why show Tyrion taking to Bran if nothing important happened?" So they create reasons for that conversation, when in reality that conversation was pointless.
Joseph Parrish
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This is why i think it was out of character for Cersei to not kill them on the spot. She doesn't play fair.
Phrasing
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I think it was just a big mistake on the host's part. The line Tyrion said was "Your brother told me he is not a Stark" (or something close). He thought the brother in that line was Bran, when it was actually Jon that told him that in a previous season. Just totally overlooked that. Just like the writing on the show - rushed reaction and didn't think it through.
redline248
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Ah. Yeah Jon always loved telling people that
Phrasing
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Urban Ag said:

So anyone think that Varys will truly re-enter the GOT and move against Dany? Stealthy coup d' etat?

No reason the believe he is not sincere in what he has told Tyrion.


I think yes, at least there will be an attempt. Maybe Tyrion dies trying to thwart it?
aTmAg
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Joseph Parrish said:

This is why i think it was out of character for Cersei to not kill them on the spot. She doesn't play fair.
That's how you guarantee yourself no allies. If she can't keep her word on that, then she can't be trusted with anything. I would never send ambassadors to talk to her out of fear that she may just have them killed because "she doesn't play fair".

There is a reason why self respecting nations do not do that in real life.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Can we all agree that the most rightful claim to the throne now belongs to Gendry Baratheon?
Zombie Jon Snow
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M.C. Swag said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

They agreed to a parlay there. That's why the two advisors met halfway to discuss terms. They obviously did not come to attack and both Queens were out there (on foot and in dresses) which they never would be if any fighting was going to take place.

That's it.

Generally speaking you don't shoot during an armistice discussion.




Generally speaking Cersei doesn't play by the rules. She literally blew up a holy place of worship with hundreds of innocent bystanders in/around the blast zone. Why exactly would she suddenly care about the rules of 'parlay' when her biggest adversary and 'known' threat to her people is so obviously exposed?

It didn't/doesn't make sense not to at least kill Tyrion on spot. Especially given how Missandei was handled.

She wasn't standing nearby at the Sept though was she? she was back hiding safely in her room. and that wasn't an armistice discussion it was her trial.

she played by the rules at the dragon pit too last season and she could have overwhelmed them there too - other than the dragon.


Missandei = Rickon a pawn not a general or other high ranking person. Tyrion is equal to Qyburn. Kill Tyrion and Qyburn gets killed too.


Generally speaking when the generals et al are standing in front of the troops instead of behind them there is not going to be any fighting.
M.C. Swag
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

M.C. Swag said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

They agreed to a parlay there. That's why the two advisors met halfway to discuss terms. They obviously did not come to attack and both Queens were out there (on foot and in dresses) which they never would be if any fighting was going to take place.

That's it.

Generally speaking you don't shoot during an armistice discussion.




Generally speaking Cersei doesn't play by the rules. She literally blew up a holy place of worship with hundreds of innocent bystanders in/around the blast zone. Why exactly would she suddenly care about the rules of 'parlay' when her biggest adversary and 'known' threat to her people is so obviously exposed?

It didn't/doesn't make sense not to at least kill Tyrion on spot. Especially given how Missandei was handled.

She wasn't standing nearby at the Sept though was she? she was back hiding safely in her room.

she played by the rules at the dragon pit too last season and she could have overwhelmed them there too - other than the dragon.


Missandei = Rickon a pawn not a general or other high ranking person. Tyrion is equal to Qyburn. Kill Tyrion and Qyburn gets killed too.


Generally speaking when the generals et al are standing in front of the troops instead of behind them there is not going to be any fighting.
She ***s her brother, ***s her cousin, kills her husband, tortures people, betrays oaths, but parlaying is where she draws the line? lol that's just a bridge too far eh?

If Cersei hadn't killed Missadei, I would agree that she did the smart thing in not provoking Dany...but she did. So provocation was precisely what she was aiming for. I can't think of anything more provoking than killing tyrion on the spot and attacking Dany where she stood. With a single dragon and a handful of unsulled to Cercei's dozens of super cross bows and a literal army with a castle wall. It would have been a layup (especially given how easily Rhaegal went down).
bobinator
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I also still think it's as easy as not wanting to just kill Dany, she needs to wipe out her army. I've posted this a few times already, but just once more to see what folks think...

Cersei knows that if Dany falls, Jon (who isn't there) will be in control. Jon, and by extension Sansa and the others, are much more pragmatic leaders and will likely pull the army back, regroup, call in more banners against Cersei, create a large alliance, etc. And then attack King's Landing down the road in a battle that Cersei has no chance to win.

Her best chance is if they attack, right now, so she's trying to provoke Dany into doing it. That's why she kills Missandei, she doesn't want Dany to be patient and wait for support, she wants her to attack with everything she has, right now.

So yeah, Cersei doesn't play by the rules, but she accepted this parlay and isn't going to break the rules of it because it doesn't benefit her to.
M.C. Swag
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

M.C. Swag said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

They agreed to a parlay there. That's why the two advisors met halfway to discuss terms. They obviously did not come to attack and both Queens were out there (on foot and in dresses) which they never would be if any fighting was going to take place.

That's it.

Generally speaking you don't shoot during an armistice discussion.




Generally speaking Cersei doesn't play by the rules. She literally blew up a holy place of worship with hundreds of innocent bystanders in/around the blast zone. Why exactly would she suddenly care about the rules of 'parlay' when her biggest adversary and 'known' threat to her people is so obviously exposed?

It didn't/doesn't make sense not to at least kill Tyrion on spot. Especially given how Missandei was handled.

she played by the rules at the dragon pit too last season and she could have overwhelmed them there too - other than the dragon.
And Dany was standing on much more equal ground during the fighting pit scene. Cersei didn't have the golden company or her super cross bows and Dany was at full strength.

Dany is at her weakest and her biggest advantage has been neutralized.
M.C. Swag
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bobinator said:

I also still think it's as easy as not wanting to just kill Dany, she needs to wipe out her army. I've posted this a few times already, but just once more to see what folks think...

Cersei knows that if Dany falls, Jon (who isn't there) will be in control. Jon, and by extension Sansa and the others, are much more pragmatic leaders and will likely pull the army back, regroup, call in more banners against Cersei, create a large alliance, etc. And then attack King's Landing down the road in a battle that Cersei has no chance to win.

Her best chance is if they attack, right now, so she's trying to provoke Dany into doing it. That's why she kills Missandei, she doesn't want Dany to be patient and wait for support, she wants her to attack with everything she has, right now.

So yeah, Cersei doesn't play by the rules, but she accepted this parlay and isn't going to break the rules of it because it doesn't benefit her to.
The parts that are bolded don't make sense. You contradicted yourself. Either Cersei WANTS Dany to attack for some obvious benefit to her or she doesn't and adheres by the rules because there's nothing to gain. Which is it?
redline248
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Can we all agree that the most rightful claim to the throne now belongs to Gendry Baratheon?


No, bc the Baratheons never had a rightful claim. Robert stole the throne with help from Jaime
bobinator
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It's not contradictory at all, although I will admit I probably worded that wrong when I said 'right now.' I didn't mean like literally right then, but as soon as she can get her army marching forward.

Her whole army isn't there at this meeting. So if she kills her right there, she's not going to end the threat, she's just going to hand most of Dany's army over to Jon.

What she wants is for Dany to get back to where her army is an immediately bring them back and attack.
pete_claw98
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Ok here's a new slant. ........
How awesome/shocking and Truely GOT would it have been if they would have fired??

Maybe Dany escapes. It they kill Tyrion right there?? I would have missed his character but.......holy cow what a gut punch that would have been!!!!

The other is that they kill all of them, Drogon goes nuts but survives. Flys back to pick up Jon and then he goes full Beast (half mad king) Mode on all of KL!??!!

BOOM! That's a way to change the show
gigemJTH12
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Damn..
Marcus Aurelius
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Trying to think of a movie / TV series where enemies meet to negotiate with respect and one attacks the other with a disadvantage. 300 ?? "This is Sparta!!!!!!"
chipotle
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gigemJTH12 said:

Damn..


yikes. That was like a "pregnant dany gets executed by jon" face.
Urban Ag
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gigemJTH12 said:

Damn..
Ouch.
gigemJTH12
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Oh I took at as she just thinks the writing sucks.

I HOPE it's how you took it.
ac04
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she gone
Zombie Jon Snow
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M.C. Swag said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

M.C. Swag said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

They agreed to a parlay there. That's why the two advisors met halfway to discuss terms. They obviously did not come to attack and both Queens were out there (on foot and in dresses) which they never would be if any fighting was going to take place.

That's it.

Generally speaking you don't shoot during an armistice discussion.




Generally speaking Cersei doesn't play by the rules. She literally blew up a holy place of worship with hundreds of innocent bystanders in/around the blast zone. Why exactly would she suddenly care about the rules of 'parlay' when her biggest adversary and 'known' threat to her people is so obviously exposed?

It didn't/doesn't make sense not to at least kill Tyrion on spot. Especially given how Missandei was handled.

she played by the rules at the dragon pit too last season and she could have overwhelmed them there too - other than the dragon.
And Dany was standing on much more equal ground during the fighting pit scene. Cersei didn't have the golden company or her super cross bows and Dany was at full strength.

Dany is at her weakest and her biggest advantage has been neutralized.

Not really - they were inside KL at that point. and only brought in a small contingent. they were heavily outnumbered in there. Sure her armies were outside the gate but if you want to just cut off the literal head of the dragon you kill Dany right there and deal with the armies after. They might not fight without her.

Cersei has shown to play by the rules in these armistice discussions and in political moves to build her armies, etc.. When she agrees to talk she talks. That's why she sent Qyburn out. If she just wanted to attacken then, then you don't send out Qyburn.





chipotle
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gigemJTH12 said:

Oh I took at as she just thinks the writing sucks.

I HOPE it's how you took it.

I saw it as, "writing sucks" and "my character doesn't end well".
Marcus Aurelius
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She's doomed. Can see it without that hint.
M.C. Swag
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Yea, it was the 'right now' part that got me. Still don't see it within her character mold to not jump at the opportunity to kill Dany, Tyrion, Drogon, and a few of her trusted advisors on the spot. The prophecy of being 'cast down' by another more beautiful Queen is something that wouldn't allow her to refuse that impulse. (And strategically, I don't think an army led by Jon, a dude with no throne ambition, is more concerning than what Dany currently is/has.)
Bunk Moreland
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chipotle said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Oh I took at as she just thinks the writing sucks.

I HOPE it's how you took it.

I saw it as, "writing sucks" and "my character doesn't end well".

This. Imagine the 55 day shoot for the BoW..

Dany: "So where does my character show strength, leadership, courage....sacrifice...anything?"

D&D: "Soon. We're actually going to write in a new scene where you **** up for a 5th time."

D: "Ok I guess...but I get stronger when we head to Kings Landing right?"

D&D: "No, that's where it gets better. You **** up again and lose another dragon. You'll be ambushed like a moron right after you were warned about the Iron Fleet during battle strategy."
HtownAg92
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Marcus Aurelius said:

Trying to think of a movie / TV series where enemies meet to negotiate with respect and one attacks the other with a disadvantage. 300 ?? "This is Sparta!!!!!!"
Zombie Jon Snow
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chipotle said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Oh I took at as she just thinks the writing sucks.

I HOPE it's how you took it.

I saw it as, "writing sucks" and "my character doesn't end well".

I just took it as ... my character had a great 7 seasons and then holy ****balls I didn't see it ending that way...... but I can't say anything.

Urban Ag
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M.C. Swag said:

bobinator said:

I also still think it's as easy as not wanting to just kill Dany, she needs to wipe out her army. I've posted this a few times already, but just once more to see what folks think...

Cersei knows that if Dany falls, Jon (who isn't there) will be in control. Jon, and by extension Sansa and the others, are much more pragmatic leaders and will likely pull the army back, regroup, call in more banners against Cersei, create a large alliance, etc. And then attack King's Landing down the road in a battle that Cersei has no chance to win.

Her best chance is if they attack, right now, so she's trying to provoke Dany into doing it. That's why she kills Missandei, she doesn't want Dany to be patient and wait for support, she wants her to attack with everything she has, right now.

So yeah, Cersei doesn't play by the rules, but she accepted this parlay and isn't going to break the rules of it because it doesn't benefit her to.
The parts that are bolded don't make sense. You contradicted yourself. Either Cersei WANTS Dany to attack for some obvious benefit to her or she doesn't and adheres by the rules because there's nothing to gain. Which is it?
Cersei and Co don't know the details of how the first dragon died. They do know they killed the second in an ambush. They also know once the threat was realized that hitting a dragon/rider aware of the danger didn't work out as well. If Cersei has her troops start flinging arrows and giant crossbow bolts at Dany and her entourage, she immediately puts herself in great danger that Drogon goes beserk and attacks. That could easily end in deep fried bich or in Drogon's death, but it's not a sound risk to take. A pissed off, wounded, Drogon at that proximity could end her reign in moments and she's know it.

CapCityAg89
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There.
M.C. Swag
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The two situations don't equate man. The second Cersei kills Dany in the pit is the second that Drogon fire annihilates everyone in that courtyard. It was a lose/lose proposition. That is not even close to what could happen now with her surrounded by Super Cross Bows. Dany offers no threat to Cersei. And it makes no sense to 'honor' the parlay when you just executed Missandei with obvious intentions of provocation. You're completely glossing over that. Cersei killed Missandei, but spared Tyrion? Why? She literally sent an assassin to kill him. Wouldn't see relish in doing the deed herself? C'mon man. You can't keep goal tending this one.
Urban Ag
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gigemJTH12 said:

Oh I took at as she just thinks the writing sucks.

I HOPE it's how you took it.
she been following to much Mark Hamill twitter
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