****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Joseph Parrish
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bangobango said:

So if Jaime kills Cersei are all the people who defended Arya killing the NK by saying it would be too predictable for Jon to do it going to now say the show was too predictable for letting Jaime do it?


There is at least a history between Cersei and Jamie. There never was a history between Arya and the NK. I'm actually ok with Arya getting the kill. I just wish Jon was involved in the fight somehow.
Sex Panther
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UMichAg said:

So how will he do it? I'm guessing he pushes her out a window ala Brandon Stark

Sword through the back... just like the Mad King
bangobango
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Are we buying into the valonqar prophecy? Kind of narrows the choices if so.


Have they even mentioned it on the show? If so, not nearly as much as TPWIP.
M.C. Swag
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Real question is how does Brienne die? I feel like she has to die to push Jamie over the edge. No way he just calmly kills the mother of his child (if she's actually pregnant).
Body By Fisher
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Body By Fisher
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M.C. Swag said:

Real question is how does Brienne die? I feel like she has to die to push Jamie over the edge. No way he just calmly kills the mother of his child (if she's actually pregnant).
Brienne is keeping her sacred oath to Lady Kat-Lynne and Lady Sansa. Doubt she leaves Winterfell. She's the new Rodrik Cassel.
redline248
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For the record, I do agree that, thematically, or makes seems for Jaime to kill Cersei. But examine the context around him leaving.

He finds out that Dany suffered a major blow and is likely to retaliate by using the dragons on the city. Sansa even implies it when she says "guess I won't have the chance to see her executed" (paraphrase).

Then he gives that "hateful" speech to Brienne. That didn't look like a man that was trying to make a break, similar to throwing rocks at your dire wolf so it runs away before it can be caught and killed. It was a man that suddenly realized the woman he's loves his whole life is in real danger.

Again, the scene presented does not suggest he is going to help kill her. He may still do it, and this was all misdirection.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Nope, but D&D have said they've spoken with GRRM and know the major broad strokes of how it ends. I figure they have to have the same end for Cersei.
Zombie Jon Snow
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redline248 said:

For the record, I do agree that, thematically, or makes seems for Jaime to kill Cersei. But examine the context around him leaving.

He finds out that Dany suffered a major blow and is likely to retaliate by using the dragons on the city. Sansa even implies it when she says "guess I won't have the chance to see her executed" (paraphrase).

Then he gives that "hateful" speech to Brienne. That didn't look like a man that was trying to make a break, similar to throwing rocks at your dire wolf so it runs away before it can be caught and killed. It was a man that suddenly realized the woman he's loves his whole life is in real danger.

Again, the scene presented does not suggest he is going to help kill her. He may still do it, and this was all misdirection.

I think you misinterpreted that entire line - Sansa wasn't saying she would die she was saying the opposite that she literally would not get to see her executed because Cersei was more likely to win.

At that moment they are devastated they believe the odds have shifted in Cersei's favor. They likely believe the other dragon will also die if they had a weapon to kill one of them.

He isn't scared she is going to die - that was the entire plan all along and he was fine with it, even staying behind and letting them go. They had the advantage when they left and he had no reason to think they would not succeed. His sudden change of heart was because now it looks like she may win.
Eliminatus
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I wonder. Is even GoT edgy enough to let Cersei win it all??

The biggest cinematic trope of all time is that the good guys win. (At the end at least). Does GoT have the pull to have Dany, Jon and others die and Cersei come out on top? Have her on the Throne looking over their bodies with that characteristic smirk on her face as the camera pans out annnnnd...... black, roll creds.

Because I want that so hard.
redline248
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I just watched the scene again. Brienne literally says "they are going to destroy that city. you can't save her, you'll die, too." Brienne certainly thinks he's going to try and save Cersei, and I believe 100% that is what the show was trying to convey.
redline248
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If they go that route I'd rather see that half crazed, teary-eyed bemusement she had after boning Euron the first time.
Zombie Jon Snow
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redline248 said:

I just watched the scene again. Brienne literally says "they are going to destroy that city. you can't save her, you'll die, too." Brienne certainly thinks he's going to try and save Cersei, and I believe 100% that is what the show was trying to convey.

Yes I get that is what Brienne thinks. No doubt

As for what the show was trying to convey - I believe that's rather ambiguous and intentionally so.


And how they portray what Brienne says is 100% intended to play to that narrative side.

It's a TV SHOW - they want you to think that.


But the entire intention all along was to kill Cersei - that did not change because of what Euron did. I see no reason that news would make Jamie flip back to Cersei - cuz she's in danger?!?!?! They sent 4 half armies and 2 dragons to kill her. That did not change.

WHY was he fine with it.... until he heard she had the advantage now???????????????
redline248
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I agree with your questioning of why was he fine with it before hand. My guess is he thought something like they'll have the greater force, she'll be forced to surrender and Tyrion will keep everyone from killing her. But when he thinks the dany will unleash the dragon on the city, that's more serious and harder to escape.

All my opinion, of course, by nothing else makes sense in the context of the scenes to me.
redline248
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In regards to the coffee cup (can skip the last 30 secs or so)

Brian Earl Spilner
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Hound & Arya have to cross the inn at the crossroads again. Chicken and a Hotpie farewell?
Zombie Jon Snow
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redline248 said:

I agree with your questioning of why was he fine with it before hand. My guess is he thought something like they'll have the greater force, she'll be forced to surrender and Tyrion will keep everyone from killing her. But when he thinks the dany will unleash the dragon on the city, that's more serious and harder to escape.

All my opinion, of course, by nothing else makes sense in the context of the scenes to me.
ok. like i said possible because of the ambiguity of what they showed. But they never showed Jamie saying he was going to save Cersei - Brienne assumes that. He has killed before to save the kingdom from someone's wrath.

He talks about HER being hateful and things things he did then for HER. He does say he is hateful in the end - but that hate is directed at Cersei now I believe.


And I don't think anyone would entertain a peaceful overthrow where Cersei lives - that never happens. Rulers stay in power or they are killed. They never acquiesce. Especially in GOT. Do you really think they would let her live in any scenario - if not killed in combat, she would at the very least be tried for blowing up the Sept and executed.

there was no ending for any scenario of Dany/Jon winning and Cersei living -and Jamie was fine with it.

It also wasn't just one thing but several:

- end of S7 he finds out Cersei is not sending troops, he leaves her knowing she considers it treason
- he fights for the living and the north and he doesn't just leave after to go back to Cersei
- Bronn shows up and reveals she hired him to kill them both
- they make a deal with Bronn to give him Highgarden instead when Cersei loses (presumably dead)
- they plan their attack and send their amies and dragons with a plan to kill her and he stays

His change of heart was that he needed to go because the balance of power shifted. I think he thinks only he can kill her. Not meaning the prophecy, just meaning he can get close enough to kill her.

We'll see.


redline248
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Nothing to add about the conversation of the show, just looking over the posts and seeing all my typos. Friggin Swype is such a POS.
agsquirrel97
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Hound & Arya have to cross the inn at the crossroads again. Chicken and a Hotpie farewell?
I actually read that they pick up hot pie on their way through and take him with, which makes sense being he is the Prince that was Promised and able to confirm Jon's lineage (having heard the story from a traveling Reed)
Brian Earl Spilner
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Well, I assume that's leaked info so not looking.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Hound & Arya have to cross the inn at the crossroads again. Chicken and a Hotpie farewell?

I was thinking about this earlier.....

in my head Jamie is hauling ass - like the Pony Express.....changing horses out at every small village along the way paying for fresh horses and leaving the exhausted one behind....

Arya and The Hound have stopped at the crossroads Inn for a little food and reunion.... as they are exiting Jamie goes galloping through full tilt headed for KL.

Arya and the Hound look at each other, realize what's up and hurriedly get their horses and give chase. It's a race to see who can kill Cersei or The Mountain first.

lol
Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Well, I assume that's leaked info so not looking.

No..... I mean i know no spoilers but there is no way that's a spoiler. being facetious..... i hope.
canadiaggie
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Well, I assume that's leaked info so not looking.


It's not, it's Howland reed joke.

Afaik no leaks for 5 have spilled yet
FIDO95
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That would be awesome to tie in. Over/under on chickens consumed considering Hotpie likes to talk?

On a side note, they should have an easy time walking into the Red Keep since Cersei is leaving the gates open for the human shields.
agsquirrel97
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FIDO95 said:

That would be awesome to tie in. Over/under on chickens consumed considering Hotpie likes to talk?

On a side note, they should have an easy time walking into the Red Keep since Cersei is leaving the gates open for the human shields.
I set the over under at (x - 1), where x = total number of chickens in the ****ing room



Put me down for the over
Brian Earl Spilner
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You gonna die for some chickens?

Someone is.
Champ Bailey
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Rewatching this, and I like how when Jon is deciding whether to tell Sansa and Arya or not, he looks at Bran. The way he says, "It's your choice." Makes me think he has seen the outcomes that choice would set in motion.
Zombie Jon Snow
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For like the 110th time.

Bran cannot deterministically see the future - meaning he cannot choose what he sees in the future unlike the past.

He has both the 3ER ability to see ALL past and current things and also what's called Greenseeing in which he sees sometimes future events but they come to him in dreams and sometimes they are more like prophetic visions not literal future events necessarily. But the primary difference is he does not choose what he sees in the future.

He quite literally said at the end of S7 he sees everything in the past and things that are happening currently. No mention of the future. I believe he was saying thats his 3ER powers and does not include the past. He had the greenseeing ability (like Jojen) long before he became the 3ER. And warging too.

For example he has seen things - like the Sept blowing up, the NK at WF, and a dragon flying over KL - but he only knows those visions he does not know the entire context and cannot just go and conjure up the entire story. He sees fragments and has to interpret them. He may not even know when they occur.

At least at this point in time that's what we know of his powers. It would wreck a lot of things if he knew the future in detail.

Champ Bailey
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

For like the 110th time.

Bran cannot deterministically see the future - meaning he cannot choose what he sees in the future unlike the past.

He has both the 3ER ability to see ALL past and current things and also what's called Greenseeing in which he sees sometimes future events but they come to him in dreams and sometimes they are more like prophetic visions not literal future events necessarily. But the primary difference is he does not choose what he sees in the future.

He quite literally said at the end of S7 he sees everything in the past and things that are happening currently. No mention of the future. I believe he was saying thats his 3ER powers and does not include the past. He had the greenseeing ability (like Jojen) long before he became the 3ER. And warging too.

For example he has see things - like the Sept blowing up, the NK at WF, and a dragon flying over KL - but he only knows those visions he does not know the entire context and cannot just go and conjure up the entire story. He sees fragments and has to interpret them. He may not even know when they occur.

At least at this point in time that's what we know of his powers. It would wreck a lot of things if he knew the future in detail.




So you don't think he knew to give Arya the knife in the exact spot she would kill the Night King?

I think he can guess well enough. He's basically a supercomputer. Think about how well google can predict stuff, and they don't have a real detailed history about you until the 00's. Bran can literally see the entire kingdoms entire life history, and I don't know how much is the green seer, but I think he is definitely more aware of how things could and will play out than anyone else.
Joseph Parrish
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That doesn't really excuse not scouting the existing enemy forces. They've dropped the ball on Bran's story since the Aegon thing. So powerful, yet so useless.
DannyDuberstein
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Maybe you should read it again. He simply said he can't choose what he sees in the future, not that he doesn't see the future at all.
Champ Bailey
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Joseph Parrish said:

That doesn't really excuse not scouting the existing enemy forces. They've dropped the ball on Bran's story since the Aegon thing. So powerful, yet so useless.


Dragonstone is right next to King's Landing. By the time Euron would have heard the fleet was on its way, and decided to surprise her, the only way Bran could have contacted them was a raven. Euron doesn't seem like the kind of guy that plans these things out that far in advance, he seems more likely to be the guy who hears the news and jumps in the boat.

Or, a more likely scenario is that Bran doesn't give a **** about who sits on the throne, his family, or anything but sitting in the corner awkwardly.
InternetFan02
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Daeny just kind of forgot about the iron fleet...it happens

Zombie Jon Snow
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Champ Bailey said:

Zombie Jon Snow said:

For like the 110th time.

Bran cannot deterministically see the future - meaning he cannot choose what he sees in the future unlike the past.

He has both the 3ER ability to see ALL past and current things and also what's called Greenseeing in which he sees sometimes future events but they come to him in dreams and sometimes they are more like prophetic visions not literal future events necessarily. But the primary difference is he does not choose what he sees in the future.

He quite literally said at the end of S7 he sees everything in the past and things that are happening currently. No mention of the future. I believe he was saying thats his 3ER powers and does not include the past. He had the greenseeing ability (like Jojen) long before he became the 3ER. And warging too.

For example he has see things - like the Sept blowing up, the NK at WF, and a dragon flying over KL - but he only knows those visions he does not know the entire context and cannot just go and conjure up the entire story. He sees fragments and has to interpret them. He may not even know when they occur.

At least at this point in time that's what we know of his powers. It would wreck a lot of things if he knew the future in detail.




So you don't think he knew to give Arya the knife in the exact spot she would kill the Night King?

I think he can guess well enough. He's basically a supercomputer. Think about how well google can predict stuff, and they don't have a real detailed history about you until the 00's. Bran can literally see the entire kingdoms entire life history, and I don't know how much is the green seer, but I think he is definitely more aware of how things could and will play out than anyone else.

No.. ... but I do see why people think that - I think it's nothing more than prophetic writing for the purpose of drama and it's quite easy to do - the writers definitely see the future.

I mean if he did know why wouldn't he just say... hey Arya come back here on the night of the battle and kill the NK ok that's the plan and it works I've seen it. I mean make sure you wait until 75% of our people are killed....but don't wait for Melisandre to tell you in some cryptic way.....and don't be so far from here you know.....just go ahead and do it. Trust me.

I get it - telling her might change things. But also not telling anyone got lots of people killed.

This is where the can of worms gets opened up if he can see the future.

So he saw Rickon dying and was fine with it. If he could see the future why not tell Jon wait for the Army of the Vale and Rickon is gonna die anyway.

Or hey Dany.... Euron's gonna sneak attack and kill your dragon right outside Dragonstone... nah let 'em go it's fine.


Bran's under that tree all the time - partly because it's a weirwood tree and it's how he sees some things happening currently. I think he gave Arya the knife because what's a cripple or the 3ER gonna do with a knife. Arya has much more use for it.


And I don't think the writers (GRRM or the show) want him to have that responsibility either. So conveniently maybe he sees the future in visions only.


I could be wrong though - he could be a giant dick in addition to being a horrible bore - and he nows all and is just letting it play out. But I won't believe that's the case unless they show us a deterministic ability to see the future.


Zombie Jon Snow
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Joseph Parrish said:

That doesn't really excuse not scouting the existing enemy forces. They've dropped the ball on Bran's story since the Aegon thing. So powerful, yet so useless.
It wasn't related to the discussion of scouting the enemy. Different discussions.

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