****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

1,054,343 Views | 14590 Replies | Last: 1 mo ago by Brian Earl Spilner
FIDO95
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I can't believe people are still arguing about 8x3!?!

This seems no different then Texags football forum when all the PlayStation pros start dissecting what the coaches and players did wrong and the game plan sucked. Even if we won.

Can we agree on this? -A lot could have been better and some made no sense. However, I was on the edge of my seat the whole episode, got pulled in emotionally during various times in the episode, and I screamed out a big F you when the NK took a dagger in his obsidian heart.

I believe all this arguing is a sign we are all emotionally invested in this show. And regardless of plot holes, that is a sign of a really good show. Gig 'em.
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
PatAg said:

M.C. Swag said:

Yea, I understood 'narratively' WHY the NK held back the Wights but in the context of 'putting himself in the battle' it didn't make sense that he didn't just have his undead army finish the job. As an audience we only know that the NK wants Bran dead...but we have no idea why he seems to personally want to do it. And without that context of why it HAS TO BE HIM, his entire strategy was dumb.

And the whole Arya escaping the room of death (somehow) only to appear flying through the air in time to stab the NK just as he was about to (high five Bran?), it all just concluded in the worst fashion I could think of. I think I'd honestly prefer if Theon was able to stand up and stab the NK instead. At least then it would be truly a redemptive moment for him (as opposed to what he actually did).


I just assumed she knew of another way out since she grew up there...why they were behaving as if they were trapped before that convo with Melisandre, who knows lol
Having Jon be stopped by the dragon was stupid, imo. I think it would have been better if he was just mowing through the ring of White Walkers with his Valyrian steel, to try to get at the Night King and save Bran. Then you can have Arya make her move. (Assuming they wanted Arya to still get the kill)


That was the plot narrative I wrote a few days ago.

Jon battling the WWs coming from behind into the godswood maybe killing 2 or 3 but then about to be killed himself. and them protecting the NK is what distracts them from ninja Arya swooping in from behind and maybe scaling the tree for her assault from above.

Works a hundred times better.
PatAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Plus I think it would just look better on screen, cgi dragons are only cool for so long. Just breathing fire in a courtyard isn't the same level as an aerial duel with another dragon.
And we are invested in Jon as viewers, seeing him actually do something would have been nice, and make it even easier to accept Arya getting the kill (which I still thought was awesome, but I like Arya)
PatAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
At least on this thread we know the majority of us have put a lot of actual thought into this and we're watching the episode intently.
Is there anything worse than hearing a podcast or radio talk show discuss things half-assedly?
Chalupa Batman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Don't have much to add to this CF of a thread. Enjoyed the episode, but didn't love it. I think one thing that's bothering people, including myself, is that this was built up for so long and it was a bit of a letdown. Other random thoughts:

While the Dothraki charge was poor tactics, I liked how it made for a great sense of "oh ****" hopelessness.

I just assumed Arya moved through the trees Assassin's Creed style to get to the NK. I felt that didn't need to be explained.

I don't understand how you can call Jon/Dany the PTWP and then have Arya kill the NK, but that really doesn't bother me much. Make Jon reach the godswood and kill a WW or two like ZJS said.

I agree with MC's take on Sam. Have him in the crypts, but leading a resistance against the dead Starks. Have Tyrion, Sansa, Varys, and the little girl help him out. Yes, they're not soldiers but they had the zombie Starks outnumbered. That shouldn't have caused as much chaos as it did.

A few more characters needed to die. Gendry, Grey Worm, Brienne, maybe even Tormund. Their arcs had reached good stopping points and would've added more to the episode.

Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.

Just my .02. I give the episode a B, but I can see how the letdown after the buildup can make it feel like a C
Chalupa Batman
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And I want to pat myself on the back for having my favorite and probably my best post on TexAgs (though I never have much to contribute) on the first page of this thread set up by the OP, thanks ZJS
The Dog Lord
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
JCRiley09 said:

Can we talk about the books and how Howland Reed is important in this thread?

Asking for a friend














See y'all in 7 pages

Speaking of stuff on page 1. Check this out.
Brian Earl Spilner
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
redline248
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Seemed pretty easy to me
AtlAg05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Brian Earl Spilner said:




You mean easy, like teleporting characters to the same location to setup a big battle? Got it, I'm in awe!
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG

if Stephen King speaks you should listen. He is a masterful writer and studies the craft or writing and teaches it.


And King would know how hard it can be - he has gotten wayward in many of his own wide ranging narratives (Gunslinger and The Stand to name a few) so he can appreciate that. He also has had trouble with conclusions and wrapping up even regular length stories.

But anyway - I think he is speaking to the narrative process of bringing those characters together from their disparate paths and each with some different motivations and reasons for being there. He is correct in that assessment.

imho



Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.

I've spent days pondering on this and I don't think it takes a military historian or highly skilled strategist to know that the defense of Winterfell was very poorly executed. No one sans the Dothraki should have been outside the trench and the catapults and trebuchets should have also been behind the trench with the infantry with some behind the castle walls. As you noted, the Dothraki should have attacked the flanks and rear in squadrons, with mounted bowman and dragon glass tipped spears, to try to take out as many as possible but also to try to keep the wight advance as spread out as possible. Then alternating dragon fire runs up the middle with volleys from the trebuchets (catapults could fire almost horizontally and wouldn't risk hitting a dragon). When the infantry couldn't hold back the advance across the trench any further, retreat as many as possible to the castle. Even rope ladders would be have been something. Pack the outer walls of the castle with anything that would burn and set it all on fire once the infantry is pulled back. Then cross your fingers you can hold the walls.

And honestly, I'm sure the writers probably sat around for days and discussed and debated ideas like this with GCI and effects people and production staff. And they probably came to the conclusion they couldn't afford to create Helms Deep v2.0 or Gondor v2.0. I'd imagine extended horse charges against a zombie army are pretty expensive and difficult so they came up with some other ideas. And they may have decided a more structured sensible infantry defense would make sense but preferred the shock value of the good guys being overrun in a wave of the undead.

Yeah, it's not perfect but it's trying to be all things to all viewers now. I'm not put off by it as I have been much more focused on just seeing how they closed this out as opposed to getting a perfect battle scene.
Whatever it takes
InternetFan02
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:


Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.
this would have been similar to Blackwater from Tyrion's perspective. Had a good initial strategy - surprise wildfire. Ultimately though they were about to be overrun by superior numbers until Tywin and the Tyrells appeared out of nowhere to save the day. But really we should have seen them coming given the events of the previous episodes.
Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Watched again.

Maybe Bran being in Bran vision right up until the end has something to do with how Arya made the kill. I think there could be some reveal there. What was Bran doing? The NK was on the ground and moving in on him. What more could Bran accomplish at that point?
Whatever it takes
Belton Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Urban Ag said:

Watched again.

Maybe Bran being in Bran vision right up until the end has something to do with how Arya made the kill. I think there could be some reveal there. What was Bran doing? The NK was on the ground and moving in on him. What more could Bran accomplish at that point?
I've seen people ask why Bran didn't do anything that whole time but I keep wondering what he possibly could have done. It's not like he can fight, so all he was supposed to do was sit there and be bait.
Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Belton Ag said:

Urban Ag said:

Watched again.

Maybe Bran being in Bran vision right up until the end has something to do with how Arya made the kill. I think there could be some reveal there. What was Bran doing? The NK was on the ground and moving in on him. What more could Bran accomplish at that point?
I've seen people ask why Bran didn't do anything that whole time but I keep wondering what he possibly could have done. It's not like he can fight, so all he was supposed to do was sit there and be bait.
Bran, Jon, and Arya all warged in to their wolves in their sleep. I don't think was ever touched in the series except for Bran. Probably a huge stretch because it wasn't covered in the series but the three have that connection. And at the very end of it, Bran is the bait and Jon and Arya are trying to make it to him.
Whatever it takes
Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
InternetFan02 said:

Quote:


Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.
this would have been similar to Blackwater from Tyrion's perspective. Had a good initial strategy - surprise wildfire. Ultimately though they were about to be overrun by superior numbers until Tywin and the Tyrells appeared out of nowhere to save the day. But really we should have seen them coming given the events of the previous episodes.
Tyion. Meh. So overrated. Always has to be bailed out. Blackwater. Death Sentence. Merreen. Has he ever done anything without someone else saving the day?
Whatever it takes
PatAg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I thought they mentioned part of the reasoning for being outside the walls was to force the battle and prevent a siege, to essentially goad the night king into going for 3ER
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Urban Ag said:

InternetFan02 said:

Quote:


Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.
this would have been similar to Blackwater from Tyrion's perspective. Had a good initial strategy - surprise wildfire. Ultimately though they were about to be overrun by superior numbers until Tywin and the Tyrells appeared out of nowhere to save the day. But really we should have seen them coming given the events of the previous episodes.
Tyion. Meh. So overrated. Always has to be bailed out. Blackwater. Death Sentence. Merreen. Has he ever done anything without someone else saving the day?

Choked the **** out of Shae.

Crossbowed Tywin.

Pissed off the Wall

***** slapped Joffrey

Belittles Meryn Trant and stops him from abusing Sansa.

Drinks and knows things.
Txgunrnnr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG


Finally!
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” -Henry Ford
Episode IV
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Do know why the music at the end building up to the NK death is bothering some people.

If you close your eyes; you are listening to Westworld (same composer).

I still like it; but you can definitely hear Westworld in there directly. If you are watchers of both shows when you rewatch this episode it will click for you and you'll go ah! And then expect to see The Man In Black step around a corner.
Social Media Influencer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Didn't bother me, but did have that familiar feel.
Fenrir
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Txgunrnnr said:



Finally!


Pretty encapsulates my opinions. Bad battle tactics aside, there are a lot of storytelling decisions that contradict prior storytelling elements and direction of battle scenes just took a lot away from the sense of doom. It's not terrible but when confronted with the history of the show and story leading up to it doesn't really hold its own. I hope the next 3 episodes provide good closure for the human element of the story.
MuckRaker96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Not sure why I'm even bothering at this point since we're less than 24 hours away from the next episode, but I'd like to think the reason Arya is successful is because she's an unknown commodity to the NK.

He's never met seen before, he can't know she's in the castle. He knows Jon has Valyrian steel and that probably leads him to assume that any other well-armored and armed knight-looking person likewise has a weapon that can hurt him, so he lays siege to the Briennes, Jamies, Tormunds, and Jorahs of the world with overwhelming numbers of wights. And he doesn't really care if it takes 5 seconds or 10 hours to kill each of those people, eventually his numbers will win out, and he can keep them at arm's length from damaging him or the other WW.

Arya doesn't look like a knight, fight like a knight, or move like a knight. She's something else. And whether you buy into her ninja leap or not, you have to assume the NK has never seen anyone trained by the Faceless Men before, and that lets her have the upper hand, although he still almost stops her.

Her leap isn't anything worse than every time Commissioner Gordon turns around for 2 seconds and suddenly Batman has vanished, or when Dungeon Master used to walk behind a rock on Dungeons & Dragons and he was suddenly gone.

Fenrir
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Who or what are you even responding to? The 15 seconds of video talking about Arya's jump it somebody in particular?
Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:

Urban Ag said:

InternetFan02 said:

Quote:


Finally, wouldn't it have been great if they would've implemented a really good military strategy but still looked like they would lose? To me, that would've added so much more to the episode. Start it off as a siege, have the Dothraki flank the army of the dead, everything is coming up Milhouse, but then the NK raise the recently killed to turn the tide for a bit. Give hope early on, then give a sense of dread and hopelessness, then finish it off with the kill.
this would have been similar to Blackwater from Tyrion's perspective. Had a good initial strategy - surprise wildfire. Ultimately though they were about to be overrun by superior numbers until Tywin and the Tyrells appeared out of nowhere to save the day. But really we should have seen them coming given the events of the previous episodes.
Tyion. Meh. So overrated. Always has to be bailed out. Blackwater. Death Sentence. Merreen. Has he ever done anything without someone else saving the day?

Choked the **** out of Shae.

Crossbowed Tywin.

Pissed off the Wall

***** slapped Joffrey

Belittles Meryn Trant and stops him from abusing Sansa.

Drinks and knows things.
Still needed Jamie. Still needed Varys. Still needed Bronn. Still needed Tywin. Still needs Dany. Just like Jon, always relying on someone else.
Whatever it takes
Zombie Jon Snow
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG

you know what you call someone in GOT with nobody to lean on????...... dead.
Urban Ag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Zombie Jon Snow said:


you know what you call someone in GOT with nobody to lean on????...... dead.

It's almost as if the entire premise of the story is that a myriad of characters are woven together in intricate and complex situations and their interactions always and affirmatively effect the others.
Whatever it takes
Social Media Influencer
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Counterpoint
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Episode IV said:

Do know why the music at the end building up to the NK death is bothering some people.

If you close your eyes; you are listening to Westworld (same composer).

I still like it; but you can definitely hear Westworld in there directly. If you are watchers of both shows when you rewatch this episode it will click for you and you'll go ah! And then expect to see The Man In Black step around a corner.
It didn't feel like a GoT song to me. Even the song it is most similar to "Light of the Seven" still sounded like a GoT song. Good call on the Westworld thing. I love Djawadi (and this song), but it seems like he got his composition styles mixed up!
AgStuckinLBK
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
AgStuckinLBK said:

Can't watch the premiere tonight so last post for a bit. Hope y'all enjoy it.


Watch all three episodes Wednesday night. This quote is from page 73. Took me 3 whole days to get caught back up on this ****storm.

Social Media Influencer
How long do you want to ignore this user?

Quote:

Took me 3 whole days to get caught back up on this ****storm.
I'm sure it was worth it.
MuckRaker96
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Fenrir said:

Who or what are you even responding to? The 15 seconds of video talking about Arya's jump it somebody in particular?
I was just making a general post of my thoughts on a message board for the show "Game of Thrones."

If you give me your cell #, I can text all my posts to you before hand to get your approval from now on.
Brian Earl Spilner
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Happy GoT day.
M.C. Swag
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
MuckRaker96 said:

Not sure why I'm even bothering at this point since we're less than 24 hours away from the next episode, but I'd like to think the reason Arya is successful is because she's an unknown commodity to the NK.

He's never met seen before, he can't know she's in the castle. He knows Jon has Valyrian steel and that probably leads him to assume that any other well-armored and armed knight-looking person likewise has a weapon that can hurt him, so he lays siege to the Briennes, Jamies, Tormunds, and Jorahs of the world with overwhelming numbers of wights. And he doesn't really care if it takes 5 seconds or 10 hours to kill each of those people, eventually his numbers will win out, and he can keep them at arm's length from damaging him or the other WW.

Arya doesn't look like a knight, fight like a knight, or move like a knight. She's something else. And whether you buy into her ninja leap or not, you have to assume the NK has never seen anyone trained by the Faceless Men before, and that lets her have the upper hand, although he still almost stops her.

Her leap isn't anything worse than every time Commissioner Gordon turns around for 2 seconds and suddenly Batman has vanished, or when Dungeon Master used to walk behind a rock on Dungeons & Dragons and he was suddenly gone.




All of that is well and good rationalization but D&D said after the show that Arya was able to kill the NK by stabbing him in the exact place he was made (lucky for her) with her dagger that was made with shards of the same dragonglass that was used to turn him into a WW (because D&D said so). So in reality, it could only have been Arya in this specifically contrived and un-explained way. Had nothing to do with her ninja skills or being sneaky. Jon and every other character with a Valyrian sword( or dragon) were neutered without even knowing it.
Page 238 of 417
 
×
Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.