****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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ChipFTAC01
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Not going back to look for the clip but I wonder if the comments by Emilia Clark about how big The battle in ep 5 is going to be are just a head fake. Rather than a clash of armies it's just one on one with Jaime or Tyrion and the GC and Lannister armies lay down their arms.
Body By Fisher
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She didn't actually say the word "battle," she just said "find the biggest TV you can."

I just figured maybe that meant Tormund and Brienne are finally getting together.
Zombie Jon Snow
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"Episode five is bigger. Episode five is, I mean, four and five and six, they're all insane, but like... Find the biggest TV you can."
mm98
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I took her comments as half teasing meaning "it's such a big episode you'll need a bigger TV"

JJxvi
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Bran cant change the past guys. Hodor was already messed up. Any changes Bran made in the future would already be reflected in the current situation. Yes Bran changed an event in the past, but him doing so had already happened and did not change everything Bran was already going through.

Having him do anything to try to erase events would be awful awful writing without understanding of what they already wrote.
M.C. Swag
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JJxvi said:

Having him do anything to try to erase events would be awful awful writing without understanding of what they already wrote.


Ah yes, and if there's one thing D&D are immune from, it's awful writing. /s

M.C. Swag
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Chipotlemonger said:

bobinator said:

People are roasting the battle tactics of the living, but putting the White Walkers into the battle would have been dumber than anything the did.


Some people just don't like this concept for some reason. So much so that they ignore it.


Wtf are you guys talking about? People ARE roasting the WW/NK. And you completely contradicted yourself. The WWs DID put themselves into the battle. They quite literally strolled through the courtyard that all of our heroes were fighting in.

Then the NK inexplicably withheld his wights from finishing Theon and killing bran for no f'n reason. None of this episode made a lick of sense. Not from the dead side and sure as **** not from the living side.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Huh?

The WW were hanging back the entire battle. They only showed up to guard the NK.

And he didn't stop his wights from doing anything. Theon and the ironborn held them off.

I think you need a rewatch.
Malcolm52
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Did Theon and his guys hold them off? Seems like they just randomly stopped attacking with any numbers. There was no consistency in their attack and even the shots contradict this.
Brian Earl Spilner
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They only stopped when he and his gang of WW showed up. He was making sure Bran was unguarded, but he never stopped sending wights before then.
Teddy Perkins
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

"Episode five is bigger. Episode five is, I mean, four and five and six, they're all insane, but like... Find the biggest TV you can."
CLEGANE BOWL CONFIRMED



Fenrir
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It feels like you've gone from disagreeing to agreeing.

At the end the NK stopped the wights from killing theon and bran once everyone else was dead. That's what mc said.
Brian Earl Spilner
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GET HYPE

*Airhorn noises*
Brian Earl Spilner
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They held off all the wights in the Godswood. He didn't stop them, he just didn't send any more, because he and his WW were there, as was his plan.

None of that is inexplicable.
Malcolm52
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Ok so had the wights gotten to Bran before hand then he would've been cool with it?
M.C. Swag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

And he didn't stop his wights from doing anything. Theon and the ironborn held them off.

I think you need a rewatch.


Lol what?! The wights literally part like the Red Sea for the NK to stroll on through. There are HUNDREDS of them surrounding Bran, Theon and the Godswood. What show are you watching? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It is abundantly clear that he wasn't trying to have the wights kill Bran, he wanted to show up and kill him himself.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why any of it is inexplicable.

It wasn't a particularly bad plan either. He just didn't expect a ninja assassin to make it past his WW guards. He got cocky.
bangobango
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Spilner has finally snapped.
Malcolm52
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So the wights attacking Theon and Co were not trying to get to Bran? They were programmed to stop at the Ironborn? Also were there a lot of them or only a few? Depending on which shot flashed across the screen this would change.
M.C. Swag
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Malcolm52 said:

So the wights attacking Theon and Co were not trying to get to Bran? They were programmed to stop at the Ironborn? Also were there a lot of them or only a few? Depending on which shot flashed across the screen this would change.


Nothing about this episode was clear, calculated or discernable. It's a textbook example of how NOT to shoot a large scale battle sequence. Scenes where characters are overrun with wights one shot are then shown completely clear of danger a cut away later. The tactics of both the living and dead were non-sensical.
M.C. Swag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

It is abundantly clear that he wasn't trying to have the wights kill Bran, he wanted to show up and kill him himself.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why any of it is inexplicable.

It wasn't a particularly bad plan either. He just didn't expect a ninja assassin to make it past his WW guards. He got cocky.


Kdjfogudbfif I think you're the only one who's confused. This started because Bobinator and Chipotlemonger said "it would have been dumb for the WWs to put themselves into the battle."

I said; it WAS dumb and they'd DID put themselves in the battle. They quite literally walked from the back lines amongst the tree line, through the open courtyard where literally every character we've seen is shown fighting, and then the NK himself 100% STOPPED his HUNDREDS (maybe even thousands) of wights from finishing Bran and Theon. Under no circumstance was he obligated to do ANY of that.

All of that was criticized. And then I'm baffled at exactly what you said "he just didn't expect a ninja assassin"....like, that's a totally logical way for this ultimate villain to fail. *vomit*
Brian Earl Spilner
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I know you're on a crusade to dismantle every last aspect of this episode, but you are not correct in your last two criticisms.

The WW were not part of the battle, and the NK did not "inexplicably" stop his wights at the Godswood. At this point you are just throwing **** at the wall.

And that's all I've got to say about that.
MuckRaker96
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Theon and the Iron Born stopped the initial surge of Wights that entered the Gods wood. However, when NK reanimated all the dead, none of those additional reanimated tried to enter the Godswood. In fact none of them did anything but stand there, almost as if to tell the living, yep, we can just keep coming back to life.

SO it would seem the NK was keeping them out of the Godswood and not fighting on purpose so he could kill Bran himself.

So what he told you was true, from a certain point of view.
PDEMDHC
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The NK plan was just as stupid as the humans.

1. He didn't need to be there at all. WW can raise the dead and kill Bran.

2. He was at a clear disadvantage with the dragons and fought anyway. The dragon could have attacked on its own without him.

3. He was, after all, human. Prideful, egocentric, and stupid. That's what really grinds my gears about the episode. He's death.... not human.
Icecream_Ag
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PDEMDHC said:


1. He didn't need to be there at all. WW can raise the dead and kill Bran.
I think the ww can do a handful at a time, he's able to raise all of them
SWCBonfire
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PDEMDHC said:

The NK plan was just as stupid as the humans.

1. He didn't need to be there at all. WW can raise the dead and kill Bran.

2. He was at a clear disadvantage with the dragons and fought anyway. The dragon could have attacked on its own without him.

3. He was, after all, human. Prideful, egocentric, and stupid. That's what really grinds my gears about the episode. He's death.... not human.


The only way this episode makes any sense at all is if the NK just being there in front of Bran imparts some sort of knowledge that otherwise would not have passed on, makes Bran the continuation of his mission that isn't killing the living, etc.

The battle itself was dumb. I get the argument that the Dothraki went out and picked a fight, that might excuse the stupid waste of cavalry. But they should have had supporting dialogue if that was the plan - even if the Dothraki decided to go on their own (which they didn't, since Jorah lead them). That charge only happened because the writers thought it would look cool and ominous onscreen. The placement of their siege weapons in front of the defensive trench is just lazy and stupid. If the dead stayed out of range, they should have had to wheel them forward. Then, when overrun, the dead should have turned them against the castle when taken, shooting blue ghost flame at them if they wanted something that looked cool. Cause and effect.

And everyone should have died that was swarmed. Don't want their character to die in this episode? Don't swarm them with zombies.
MaroonStain
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SWCBonfire said:

PDEMDHC said:

The NK plan was just as stupid as the humans.

1. He didn't need to be there at all. WW can raise the dead and kill Bran.

2. He was at a clear disadvantage with the dragons and fought anyway. The dragon could have attacked on its own without him.

3. He was, after all, human. Prideful, egocentric, and stupid. That's what really grinds my gears about the episode. He's death.... not human.


The only way this episode makes any sense at all is if the NK just being there in front of Bran imparts some sort of knowledge that otherwise would not have passed on, makes Bran the continuation of his mission that isn't killing the living, etc.

The battle itself was dumb. I get the argument that the Dothraki went out and picked a fight, that might excuse the stupid waste of cavalry. But they should have had supporting dialogue if that was the plan - even if the Dothraki decided to go on their own (which they didn't, since Jorah lead them). That charge only happened because the writers thought it would look cool and ominous onscreen. The placement of their siege weapons in front of the defensive trench is just lazy and stupid. If the dead stayed out of range, they should have had to wheel them forward. Then, when overrun, the dead should have turned them against the castle when taken, shooting blue ghost flame at them if they wanted something that looked cool. Cause and effect.

And everyone should have died that was swarmed. Don't want their character to die in this episode? Don't swarm them with zombies.


Welcome to the thread and last week. Thr year is 2019 and it's May.
Icecream_Ag
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We are 31 hours and change from episode 4 and people are still *****ing.
Football threads ain't got **** on us - Denzel Washington voice
PatAg
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M.C. Swag said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

It is abundantly clear that he wasn't trying to have the wights kill Bran, he wanted to show up and kill him himself.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why any of it is inexplicable.

It wasn't a particularly bad plan either. He just didn't expect a ninja assassin to make it past his WW guards. He got cocky.


Kdjfogudbfif I think you're the only one who's confused. This started because Bobinator and Chipotlemonger said "it would have been dumb for the WWs to put themselves into the battle."

I said; it WAS dumb and they'd DID put themselves in the battle. They quite literally walked from the back lines amongst the tree line, through the open courtyard where literally every character we've seen is shown fighting, and then the NK himself 100% STOPPED his HUNDREDS (maybe even thousands) of wights from finishing Bran and Theon. Under no circumstance was he obligated to do ANY of that.

All of that was criticized. And then I'm baffled at exactly what you said "he just didn't expect a ninja assassin"....like, that's a totally logical way for this ultimate villain to fail. *vomit*


They held the white walkers out of the battle until the way was clear to the 3 eyes Raven. Their whole reason for even having a battle was to kill him, which they established the Night King wanted to do personally.
To say that the white walkers were "in the battle" by being in the godswood is a huge stretch. You seem to not be grasping the personal factor in this, where the night king is obsessed with killing the 3 eyed Raven.
M.C. Swag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I know you're on a crusade to dismantle every last aspect of this episode, but you are not correct in your last two criticisms.

The WW were not part of the battle, and the NK did not "inexplicably" stop his wights at the Godswood. At this point you are just throwing **** at the wall.

And that's all I've got to say about that.
dismantle?! Im just baffled that you can see something that literally didn't happen. Theon LITERALLY charged through line after line of Wights. When the camera pans out you see a circle of wights surrounding Bran and they're just STANDING there. Any one of them could have killed Theon or Bran.

Here's the scene:


At the 22 second mark you see all the wights surrounding Bran. At the 36 second mark you see all the wights that were standing between Bran and the NK. If you liked it, just admit it. But don't lie about what was portrayed and tell me to 'watch it again.'
M.C. Swag
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PatAg said:

M.C. Swag said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

It is abundantly clear that he wasn't trying to have the wights kill Bran, he wanted to show up and kill him himself.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why any of it is inexplicable.

It wasn't a particularly bad plan either. He just didn't expect a ninja assassin to make it past his WW guards. He got cocky.
Kdjfogudbfif I think you're the only one who's confused. This started because Bobinator and Chipotlemonger said "it would have been dumb for the WWs to put themselves into the battle."

I said; it WAS dumb and they'd DID put themselves in the battle. They quite literally walked from the back lines amongst the tree line, through the open courtyard where literally every character we've seen is shown fighting, and then the NK himself 100% STOPPED his HUNDREDS (maybe even thousands) of wights from finishing Bran and Theon. Under no circumstance was he obligated to do ANY of that.

All of that was criticized. And then I'm baffled at exactly what you said "he just didn't expect a ninja assassin"....like, that's a totally logical way for this ultimate villain to fail. *vomit*

They held the white walkers out of the battle until the way was clear to the 3 eyes Raven. Their whole reason for even having a battle was to kill him, which they established the Night King wanted to do personally.
To say that the white walkers were "in the battle" by being in the godswood is a huge stretch. You seem to not be grasping the personal factor in this, where the night king is obsessed with killing the 3 eyed Raven.
lol I understand it full well. I understand that the NK wanted to kill Bran because 'reasons' and it couldn't be any clearer that he wanted to do it himself. That's not the conversation being had. There are people here who actually think that the NK and the WWs DIDN'T a) hold back their attack & b) didn't put themselves in any danger. Both of those are patently false.

Brian's quote:
Quote:

And he didn't stop his wights from doing anything. Theon and the ironborn held them off.

I think you need a rewatch.
PatAg
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It seemed to me like you were saying they weren't tactically held back from the pitched battle, due to the fact that they end up in the godswood. Maybe that's just because all the reply chains get convoluted.

I've been saying since most of last season that the writing is subpar at this point, so I don't want you to get the impression I'm defending their scripts.
and obviously we are just picking nits at this point. I think it's likely they had a cool idea for the visual of their flaming swords charging and then slowly going out, and wrote the battle in a way to get that scene to happen.. ignoring that it made no sense. And then it leads to the following scene where the survivors come straggling back.. and the front lines are very apprehensive and we get the terrifying visual of the undead wave hitting the lines.

Not having Jon really fight anyone was really dumb, imo.
M.C. Swag
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Yea, I understood 'narratively' WHY the NK held back the Wights but in the context of 'putting himself in the battle' it didn't make sense that he didn't just have his undead army finish the job. As an audience we only know that the NK wants Bran dead...but we have no idea why he seems to personally want to do it. And without that context of why it HAS TO BE HIM, his entire strategy was dumb.

And the whole Arya escaping the room of death (somehow) only to appear flying through the air in time to stab the NK just as he was about to (high five Bran?), it all just concluded in the worst fashion I could think of. I think I'd honestly prefer if Theon was able to stand up and stab the NK instead. At least then it would be truly a redemptive moment for him (as opposed to what he actually did).
Federale01
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

It is abundantly clear that he wasn't trying to have the wights kill Bran, he wanted to show up and kill him himself.

I'm not sure where the confusion is, or why any of it is inexplicable.

It wasn't a particularly bad plan either. He just didn't expect a ninja assassin to make it past his WW guards. He got cocky.
This is the exact same thing he did when he killed Bloodraven. The wights stopped while the WWs and NK came in and killed the old three-eyed raven. Bran was there, so he knew what happened and knew it was likely for the NK to do the same thing again.
PatAg
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M.C. Swag said:

Yea, I understood 'narratively' WHY the NK held back the Wights but in the context of 'putting himself in the battle' it didn't make sense that he didn't just have his undead army finish the job. As an audience we only know that the NK wants Bran dead...but we have no idea why he seems to personally want to do it. And without that context of why it HAS TO BE HIM, his entire strategy was dumb.

And the whole Arya escaping the room of death (somehow) only to appear flying through the air in time to stab the NK just as he was about to (high five Bran?), it all just concluded in the worst fashion I could think of. I think I'd honestly prefer if Theon was able to stand up and stab the NK instead. At least then it would be truly a redemptive moment for him (as opposed to what he actually did).


I just assumed she knew of another way out since she grew up there...why they were behaving as if they were trapped before that convo with Melisandre, who knows lol
Having Jon be stopped by the dragon was stupid, imo. I think it would have been better if he was just mowing through the ring of White Walkers with his Valyrian steel, to try to get at the Night King and save Bran. Then you can have Arya make her move. (Assuming they wanted Arya to still get the kill)
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