****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

1,111,644 Views | 14599 Replies | Last: 25 days ago by Urban Ag
Zombie Jon Snow
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Marcus Aurelius said:

SIAP

How many dragons are left? It is hard to tell if one was killed by Viserion.
both alive - in the next preview
PatAg
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It's always been strange to me that we don't treat those as spoilers, but a lot of times they end up not happening or they happen in the first minute anyways
Zombie Jon Snow
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PatAg said:

It's always been strange to me that we don't treat those as spoilers, but a lot of times they end up not happening or they happen in the first minute anyways
The show is withholding what they don't want us to know. So that isn't something they felt should not be released.

If it's official from HBO....it's fair game. imho.

It's also been posted here a dozen times at least already.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It's not a battle worth fighting, since the traffic in this thread is insane and most people watch it.

But I never watch them and wish I could stay 100% clean going into the next episodes.

Never gonna happen unfortunately, unless I leave the thread completely.
Icecream_Ag
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S
HtownAg92 said:

Jon was never enlisted in an army, was never a NCO, never an officer, never a general. He spent his childhood in peacetime, when his "dad" wasn't around talking war strategy. He got sent to the wall to serve on a skeleton crew of ragtags, with the closest thing to soldiers being Rangers, who are recon, and he wasn't even one of those.

But somehow he was supposed to be a master battle strategist and the fact that he needed some help to beat a foe that outnumbered him 2 to 10:1 makes him incompetent or a bad leader. How about the fact that he rallied his defeated crews, held his own and then some in battle, and bought time enough to be saved. Every one of those battles he "lost" could have been over way before any help arrived.

Hero moments? He's had plenty:

Saving Mormont
Risking his life to save a stranger south of the wall from wilding murder
Risking his life to double-agent the wildings
Risking his life to parlay with Mance Rayder
Risking his life by not letting Stannis torture Mance
Walking into a nest of Wildings and Thenns and giants to help them escape south of the wall
Running to retrieve dragon glass while getting overrun with the dead
Staying behind to hold off the dead so that the expeditionary force can escape on a dragon
Challenging Ramsey to single combat to save his army
Exposing himself to save his brother
Drawing and holding his ground against a cavalry charge
Entering a fortified castle to take down Ramsey
Boat Sex

did not mention cave sex. ignoring rest of users points.

Also Ned and Benjen tried to talk Jon out of taking the Black. He wasnt sent nor conscripted.
JABQ04
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bobinator said:

MuckRaker96 said:

MaroonStain said:

I just learned from this page that the British lost the Battle of Dunkirk...
Blame it on Harry Styles
I mean... they definitely didn't win the Battle of Dunkirk.


One could argue that the Brits did win at Dunkirk with evacuation of 300K men. At some point the focus shifted from killing Germans to saving an army. I'd say they accomplished that goal and the Germans failed to accomplish their aim of destruction of the BEF.
C@LAg
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Previews should be considered the same as a trailer.
They are officially released material, so should be fair game.

Or is the preference then to tag every movie trailer as a spoiler for movies?

JABQ04
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Jon Snow isn't Patton or Rommel but he has enough advisors with experience to make a solid plan. Don't know who planned BoW or if it was a collaboration but Jaime, Jorah, Grey Worm, Ser Davos, The Hound all have significant military service. Especially Jaime, but who knows Dany would have trusted him.
bobinator
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You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. Or you'd at least be missing the mark. This probably isn't the board/thread for a debate of WWII geography or war definitions though.
Zombie Jon Snow
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JABQ04 said:

bobinator said:

MuckRaker96 said:

MaroonStain said:

I just learned from this page that the British lost the Battle of Dunkirk...
Blame it on Harry Styles
I mean... they definitely didn't win the Battle of Dunkirk.


One could argue that the Brits did win at Dunkirk with evacuation of 300K men. At some point the focus shifted from killing Germans to saving an army. I'd say they accomplished that goal and the Germans failed to accomplish their aim of destruction of the BEF.

they lost Battle of Dunkirk decisively.

but they won the Evacuation of Dunkirk.

bobinator
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BTW, how did the Dunkirk conversation even get started. Was that post referencing a meme or something?
bobinator
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The only 'battle tactics' thing that registered as actually annoying to me was the bit with the trebuchets. That was... bad.
OldShadeOfBlue
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bangobango said:

MuckRaker96 said:

bangobango said:

Urban Ag said:

What I have learned from this thread is that if the good guys (Starks, mainly Jon) don't win every time then they/he is a terrible commander and always needs someone to bail them/him out.

Of course if they/he won all the time with perfectly planned strategies, I don't think that would make anyone happy either.

Oh yeah. here we go. Perfect, wight army is being lured in....and......yes! Light the first fire trench. Nice. Ok, Unsullied to the quick step, engage, yes, take down each zombie systematically that makes it across the trench. Wait, hold on, they're starting to bunch up and swarm, ARCHERS! TREBUCHES! Ok now, that's slowing them down, dragons side by side up the middle of the battlefield. WOOHOO zombie BBQ. Maximum casualty producing ordinance deployed baby! We got em on the ropes now! Second pass, massive devastation. Ok here we go, as planned, the wights are scattering, getting plenty of space between them and breaking to their left and right flanks.....signal the Cavalry! Booyah! Dorthraki horde running them down on horseback, what a slaughter! Okay bring the dragons back around on the edges of the flanks to keep them pinned in the death corridor, oh they're toast! <Pod high fives Davos, Dany beams back at a smiling Jon, Jamie passionately kisses Brienne> ok, bring up the Knights of the Vail and Wildlings for mop up, Dothraki running down the stragglers. Let's call it a day boys. Irwin F'n Rommel couldn't have planned that better. Oh look there, the NK is flying home with his tail between his legs. NOT TODAY NIGHT KING! NOT TODAY. Ok people, great work, really nice, very crisp. Someone wake Tormund up. Let's take the rest of the day off then get this show on the road for KL. Can anyone say "Clegane Bowl"?


Can you point to a part in the series when Jon won without being bailed out by somebody else? It's kind of been a running joke for a while now. I think most put up with it because the assumption was there would be a payoff at the end, but turns out the show writers don't actually watch the show because they felt Jon had already got to be the hero too many times.

Killed the wights that were out to kill Lord Commander Mormont in Season 1. Had he not done that, the Night's Watch would have been without a Lord Commander and Jon would have never ascended to that position so early on.

Commanded the Night's Watch to a successful defense of the wall when the Wildlings attacked. Then killed the Magnar of Thenn in single combat after that guy was slaughtering the Night's Watch left and right and really had no equal.

Killed a White Walker in single combat and was the first person to make the realization that Valyrian steel could kill them, which sorta turned out to be a big deal last week.


So, you give three examples, all three from season five or before and all three individual encounters rather than military victories, which is what we were discussing.. First example he throws fire on the wight out of desperation. Second example, he is disarmed and getting his ass kicked and lucks into finding a hammer to club the guy with while he is getting strangled to death. Ultimately, Stannis has to come in to save the day and win the battle. Third example is the only one I'll give you was cool, but keep in mind a few minutes later he's on a boat retreating because the dead and NK just overran his defense of Hardhomme, so two out of three of your examples are battles that he either loses or would have lost if not for a bailout by a third party.
Obligatory you must be fun at parties
HtownAg92
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Icecream_Ag said:

HtownAg92 said:

Jon was never enlisted in an army, was never a NCO, never an officer, never a general. He spent his childhood in peacetime, when his "dad" wasn't around talking war strategy. He got sent to the wall to serve on a skeleton crew of ragtags, with the closest thing to soldiers being Rangers, who are recon, and he wasn't even one of those.

But somehow he was supposed to be a master battle strategist and the fact that he needed some help to beat a foe that outnumbered him 2 to 10:1 makes him incompetent or a bad leader. How about the fact that he rallied his defeated crews, held his own and then some in battle, and bought time enough to be saved. Every one of those battles he "lost" could have been over way before any help arrived.

Hero moments? He's had plenty:

Saving Mormont
Risking his life to save a stranger south of the wall from wilding murder
Risking his life to double-agent the wildings
Risking his life to parlay with Mance Rayder
Risking his life by not letting Stannis torture Mance
Walking into a nest of Wildings and Thenns and giants to help them escape south of the wall
Running to retrieve dragon glass while getting overrun with the dead
Staying behind to hold off the dead so that the expeditionary force can escape on a dragon
Challenging Ramsey to single combat to save his army
Exposing himself to save his brother
Drawing and holding his ground against a cavalry charge
Entering a fortified castle to take down Ramsey
Boat Sex

did not mention cave sex. ignoring rest of users points.

Also Ned and Benjen tried to talk Jon out of taking the Black. He wasnt sent nor conscripted.
You're right, need to add to the list:

Kissed Fire
Urban Ag
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bobinator said:

BTW, how did the Dunkirk conversation even get started. Was that post referencing a meme or something?
Probably a comparison to Jon/NW evacuating wildlings by sea from Hardhome.
bobinator
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Right, that makes sense, I missed that post.
OldShadeOfBlue
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I feel like a huge betrayal is about to happen in the next couple weeks that they've been setting up each season for the last seven years but no one is talking about it because the hints they've given have so easily fallen through the cracks. Think along the lines "A Lannister always pays their debts".
Federale01
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Now that the Army of the dead is defeated, does Jamie stay with team Fire/Ice? He left KL because he gave his word, not because he wanted to kill his sister. I think there has to be an event that finally pushes him off the edge against Cersi, like the killing of someone he cares about a lot.
Belton Ag
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Federale01 said:

Now that the Army of the dead is defeated, does Jamie stay with team Fire/Ice? He left KL because he gave his word, not because he wanted to kill his sister. I think there has to be an event that finally pushes him off the edge against Cersi, like the killing of someone he cares about a lot.


Her hiring Bron to murder him might push him over the edge.
Federale01
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Yeah, I'm just thinking Bronn tries to kill him and gets Brienne. Bronn explains it's just business. Jamie flips on her for good.
chase128
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Oh man I like this theory. Brutal
Champ Bailey
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Brian Earl Spilner said:



Holy *****


I caught it immediately! I posted about it and someone asked why the Maester would be buried in the crypt.
DannyDuberstein
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yeah, i've been assuming they kept Brienne alive vs. the WW's in order to have Cersei responsible for killing her which would flip Jamie all the way. And yeah, Bron would be the natural one to do it . Maybe Mountain, but Bron makes more sense.
Champ Bailey
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Champ Bailey said:

DannyDuberstein said:

They were busting out of the sides of the crypts and killing the women and children. The crypts weren't infiltrated. The NK rose the starks when he rose all the dead.


Pretty sure the first one was Maester Lewin.


The Dog Lord
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I never got the impression that Bran could do much to change the past. Yes, he ****ed up Hodor, and his dad seemed to hear him, but that's about it. Granted, we haven't seen him try hard to change something.

I just don't think that's the way the show is going. Could be wrong though. He could have influenced "burn them all", he could be the NK, etc.
JABQ04
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I'm impressed this thread made it 4 1/2 hours with no posts.
Rex Racer
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I think Bran is nothing more than a "watcher". He is the world's memory, plain and simple. So when he warged during the battle, he was simply watching what was happening.
M.C. Swag
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The Dog Lord said:

I never got the impression that Bran could do much to change the past. Yes, he ****ed up Hodor, and his dad seemed to hear him, but that's about it. Granted, we haven't seen him try hard to change something.

I just don't think that's the way the show is going. Could be wrong though. He could have influenced "burn them all", he could be the NK, etc.


He 100% can change the past. It's already happened, as you said, with Hodor. What Bran's power abilities are, are muddy, but the implications of that moment is clear as water...he absolutely CAN "affect" the past.

The 3ER tries to tell him that "the ink is dry" but Bran proved that wrong. Hodor wasn't hodor until Bran made that happen. As a viewer, that line of dialogue now has to be viewed as a "best practice" vs hardline rule.
JCRiley09
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There's a stump where a weirwood once stood.
Urban Ag
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Federale01 said:

Yeah, I'm just thinking Bronn tries to kill him and gets Brienne. Bronn explains it's just business. Jamie flips on her for good.
This is going to be very interesting to see unfold.

At this point I just don't see Jamie trying to rejoin Cersei's ranks. He's earned the respect of the heroes of Winterfell. He's with probably the only two people in the world that actually love him, Tyrion and Brienne. And I have a hard time believing he will sully his honor once again for Cersei after what they just went through together. He's made his peace with Bran.

Likewise, I think he is dead to Cersei. Truthfully, he has been nothing but her pawn since he returned to KL years ago less one hand. She doesn't trust him and never will, especially after he defied her orders and rode north. Jamie is not stupid, he knows this.

Bronn. If this was book source material, I would have no problem believing Bronn would attempt to kill Jamie and Tyrion. Bronn is pretty much a complete dwad in the books, a true mercenary who believes in nothing but gold and what it gets him. But tv series Bronn is something completely else, and I just can't see him going through with it.

I still think Jamie's destiny is to kill Cersei. For history to repeat itself and for him to die this time in the process, with her. Then again, pretty much everyone thought either Dany or Jon would fulfill the AA prophecy and destroy the NK but that rug got pulled out from under us. So who knows.

Three. More. Episodes.

BallerStaf2003
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I've seen a lot of posts about how awesome the Battle of Winterfell was. I respect everyone's opinion, but to me it was hugely disappointing. The writing last season and this season has gotten much worse post books, and much of the lore and intrigue that made this show so alluring has been cast aside for more mainstream satisfaction. Here are my main issues:

No understanding of the Night King. No further explanation of his motives. The Night King prepares 3,000 years for the long night. The long night lasted four hours. The entire show was about winter is coming. More people died at the battle of the *******s.

No understanding of Bran and his powers except he can see in the future.

No use of Valeryian steel swords that were so important throughout the series.

Jon snow and Daenerys useless again. The entire white walker threat was discovered and made aware by Jon, and he's riding around on useless dragons. Also, horrible war strategy.... again.

No battles with actual white walkers with valerian steel swords.

Everyone completely overwhelmed by waves of wights yet nearly everyone survives, and if everyone survives, why the tearful goodbyes for two entire episodes?

Dragons were useless. Ghost was useless.

Arya killing the night king makes zero sense with the Azor Ahai prophecy.

Overall, just a vague everyone feel good victory for something that was supposed to be the apocalypse. Just really disappointing and probably not what GRRM will do when the books come out. If ever.
Malcolm52
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Pretty much this
gigemJTH12
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I rewatched last night. I liked the episode the first time but felt the unrealistic dire situations were annoying. Last night I liked the episode way more and the situations didn't seem nearly as unrealistically dire as I thought the first time. I loved the episode last night. Not to say there were no flaws, but it was way better this time.
bobinator
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People are roasting the battle tactics of the living, but putting the White Walkers into the battle would have been dumber than anything the did.
Chipotlemonger
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bobinator said:

People are roasting the battle tactics of the living, but putting the White Walkers into the battle would have been dumber than anything the did.


Some people just don't like this concept for some reason. So much so that they ignore it.
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