M.C. Swag said:

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MuckRaker96 said:

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Not sure why I'm even bothering at this point since we're less than 24 hours away from the next episode, but I'd like to think the reason Arya is successful is because she's an unknown commodity to the NK.

He's never met seen before, he can't know she's in the castle. He knows Jon has Valyrian steel and that probably leads him to assume that any other well-armored and armed knight-looking person likewise has a weapon that can hurt him, so he lays siege to the Briennes, Jamies, Tormunds, and Jorahs of the world with overwhelming numbers of wights. And he doesn't really care if it takes 5 seconds or 10 hours to kill each of those people, eventually his numbers will win out, and he can keep them at arm's length from damaging him or the other WW.

Arya doesn't look like a knight, fight like a knight, or move like a knight. She's something else. And whether you buy into her ninja leap or not, you have to assume the NK has never seen anyone trained by the Faceless Men before, and that lets her have the upper hand, although he still almost stops her.

Her leap isn't anything worse than every time Commissioner Gordon turns around for 2 seconds and suddenly Batman has vanished, or when Dungeon Master used to walk behind a rock on Dungeons & Dragons and he was suddenly gone.

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All of that is well and good rationalization but D&D said after the show that Arya was able to kill the NK by stabbing him in the exact place he was made (lucky for her) with her dagger that was made with shards of the same dragonglass that was used to turn him into a WW (because D&D said so). So in reality, it could only have been Arya in this specifically contrived and un-explained way. Had nothing to do with her ninja skills or being sneaky. Jon and every other character with a Valyrian sword( or dragon) were neutered without even knowing it.

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I'm not sure that is what they are saying exactly. And I've not seen anything that says that knife had dragonglass shards from the knife he was created with- only that it was Valyrian steel (please provide source for that). In fact the quote below does not mention dragonglass.


I've seen a few statements similar in which they say killed in the exact spot, etc... like:

Quote:

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The duo knew it had to be Valyrian steel, and the exact spot where the child of the forest put the dragonglass blade to create the Night King, so he became "uncreated by the Valyrian steel," Benioff said.

https://www.eonline.com/news/1036409/why-arya-stark-was-always-going-to-be-the-game-of-thrones-savior

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To me that doesn't say it had to be Arya, nor that it had to be the exact spot under the tree, and maybe not even the same knife spot. What that says to me is narratively it had to be that way - or put another way "it had to be in that spot and with valyrian steel and to the same knife spot because that's what we wanted it to be from a storytelling point of view."

not that it had to be Arya, that location or that knife for any real reason other than narratively. And that Arya was chosen because they basically didn't want it to be Jon (so it was a surprise, and I presume because something bigger is planned for Jon).



I'm willing to accept that idea - but this (and others I've seen) don't read that way to me.

Which tactics were replicated from LOTR? Most of the complaints I can think of don't have a similar instance in LOTR I can think of off top of my head.

M.C. Swag said:

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MuckRaker96 said:

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Not sure why I'm even bothering at this point since we're less than 24 hours away from the next episode, but I'd like to think the reason Arya is successful is because she's an unknown commodity to the NK.

He's never met seen before, he can't know she's in the castle. He knows Jon has Valyrian steel and that probably leads him to assume that any other well-armored and armed knight-looking person likewise has a weapon that can hurt him, so he lays siege to the Briennes, Jamies, Tormunds, and Jorahs of the world with overwhelming numbers of wights. And he doesn't really care if it takes 5 seconds or 10 hours to kill each of those people, eventually his numbers will win out, and he can keep them at arm's length from damaging him or the other WW.

Arya doesn't look like a knight, fight like a knight, or move like a knight. She's something else. And whether you buy into her ninja leap or not, you have to assume the NK has never seen anyone trained by the Faceless Men before, and that lets her have the upper hand, although he still almost stops her.

Her leap isn't anything worse than every time Commissioner Gordon turns around for 2 seconds and suddenly Batman has vanished, or when Dungeon Master used to walk behind a rock on Dungeons & Dragons and he was suddenly gone.

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All of that is well and good rationalization but D&D said after the show that Arya was able to kill the NK by stabbing him in the exact place he was made (lucky for her) with her dagger that was made with shards of the same dragonglass that was used to turn him into a WW (because D&D said so). So in reality, it could only have been Arya in this specifically contrived and un-explained way. Had nothing to do with her ninja skills or being sneaky. Jon and every other character with a Valyrian sword( or dragon) were neutered without even knowing it.

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With that take, I am glad they can write no more....

not sure it's been posted so I didn't want to spoil anything - i mean it's only based on conjecture but....

i've seen mentioned in a few articles that not ALL of the WW are dead. And that D&D have simply said they will not talk about whether we are done with WW for sure.

the basis for this is - the baby we saw created from Crasters last male child in S4 - we don't know it's fate.

i'd post a pic but it breaks the sp tags

It's not true though.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It's not true though.

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Watch Game Revealed.

DB Weis said the thing that made the NK is the very thing that unmade him.

Surely there is a way to post a link without the picture auto loading right?

Honestly though I'm not sure how they would squeeze that kind of story addition into what we have left and feel satisfactory.

I'm assuming they are just playing coy since the story is not over. It would make zero sense to do that relative to the "rules" they set up via what happened with the other WW's and wights. But maybe there is a final closing scene to the series with some WW's beyond the wall. That would be super cheap IMO though.

M.C. Swag said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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It's not true though.

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Watch Game Revealed.

DB Weis said the thing that made the NK is the very thing that unmade him.

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OK.....


This is an exact quote:

Quote:

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"We knew it had to be VALYRIAN STEEL, to the exact spot where the Child of the Corest PUT the dragonglass blade to create the Knight King. That weapon has been one of the totemic pieces for us and ultimately we've known for a long, long time that was gonna end the Night King".

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Nothing in that says anything except narratively "it had to be that way" - they decided.

And definitely did not say it had any dragonglass in it from any source.


Now....right after that Weiss does say something like - it is possible it was the very thing that created him that has to end him or maybe it's valyrian steel.... not gonna say figure it out yourself.


That clearly doesn't say anything specific. I guess it could have been he's being very elusive.




starts at the 34:30 mark

Glad you're here, thought I was losing my mind. Even rewatched it twice earlier because I was thinking there's no way I'd have missed that.

Major spoiler out there. :50 sec clip depicting a major incident from either tonight or next week

Go to 35:15. That's DB Weiss saying what I posted.

M.C. Swag said:

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Go to 35:15. That's DB Weiss saying what I posted.

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I also had that above he said paraphrasing here (keywords in caps):

it is POSSIBLE it was the very thing that created him that has to end him or MAYBE it's valyrian steel.... not gonna say figure it out yourself.

and Benioff said specifically it had to be VALYRIAN STEEL.

Yeah, he says maybe, but you posted it as a fact.

bobinator said:

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Yeah, he says maybe, but you posted it as a fact.

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It sounded like a fact when I heard it. The fact that's it's something they said "maybe it is" "figure it out for yourself" is insane.

Zombie Jon Snow said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Go to 35:15. That's DB Weiss saying what I posted.

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I also had that above he said paraphrasing here (keywords in caps):

it is POSSIBLE it was the very thing that created him that has to end him or MAYBE it's valyrian steel.... not gonna say figure it out yourself.

and Benioff said specifically it had to be VALYRIAN STEEL.

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1) You edited your post after I was responding. You didn't include Weis's comment originally.

2) its highly suggested that VSteel is forged with Dragonglass. So it's not an either/or scenario.

M.C. Swag said:

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Zombie Jon Snow said:

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M.C. Swag said:

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Go to 35:15. That's DB Weiss saying what I posted.

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I also had that above he said paraphrasing here (keywords in caps):

it is POSSIBLE it was the very thing that created him that has to end him or MAYBE it's valyrian steel.... not gonna say figure it out yourself.

and Benioff said specifically it had to be VALYRIAN STEEL.

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1) You edited your post after I was responding. You didn't include Weis's comment originally.

2) its highly suggested that VSteel is forged with Dragonglass. So it's not an either/or scenario.

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SUGGESTED....yes

we don't know that for sure.

maybe he was hinting and it ends up as true - but their decision about where and who were definitely narrative choices and the blade for all we know now is only Valyrian steel. And the only definitive statement is that it was Valyrian steel.


just present it as conjecture or a possibility and not fact and it's fine.

Apologies for my offense. It is a FACT that Arya has to stab him in a specific location and it is entirely SUGGESTED that there's a connection to the NK with that specific blade. Neither of which are made known to Arya or the audience.

(But I never just made up the quote as you were suggesting in your original post that you've heavily edited so don't even go there)

DSAg44 said:

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Bran warged into Arya right before the killing. He also warged into Jon during the boat ride over with Jon's aunt.

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This theory might have some legs

S8E4 filler/dialogue/battle planning episode mainly ?

M.C. Swag said:

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DSAg44 said:

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Bran warged into Arya right before the killing. He also warged into Jon during the boat ride over with Jon's aunt.

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This theory might have some legs

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this makes real sense because then Jon didn't commit incest

I honestly have no idea what will happen tonight. How will they fill 80 minutes?