****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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claym711
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Um, the entire show has become pop culture fan fiction that's built for t shirt fans.
jenn96
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Quote:

Is the betrayal thing that people keep talking about come from the books? I can't remember any reference to an impending betrayal in the show.

The only betrayal that has been referenced on the show and books is Dani's 3 betrayals. I'm expecting one more big one simply because betrayals have been a standard part of the plot since episode 1 and have led to many of the shows biggest surprises. Little finger betraying Ned, Theon betraying Robb, the Bolton's and Greys betraying the Starks, etc. Expecting a major character to betray the others somehow is the most logical thing to expect, even if it doesn't happen.
chipotle
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Question: Did the north even need dany and her army?

Let's say Jon get's dany's note to come to dragonstone and bend the knee. Jon tells her to go pound sand. The starks hole up in Winterfell, get overrun by whites (they did anyway with dany's army), lure in the nk and arya kills him. So what exactly Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons....do?
aTmAg
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jenn96 said:

Quote:

Is the betrayal thing that people keep talking about come from the books? I can't remember any reference to an impending betrayal in the show.

The only betrayal that has been referenced on the show and books is Dani's 3 betrayals. I'm expecting one more big one simply because betrayals have been a standard part of the plot since episode 1 and have led to many of the shows biggest surprises. Little finger betraying Ned, Theon betraying Robb, the Bolton's and Greys betraying the Starks, etc. Expecting a major character to betray the others somehow is the most logical thing to expect, even if it doesn't happen.
This was the discussion I remembered. However, I do not remember Dani's 3 betrayals being referenced in the show. When was that?
Brian Earl Spilner
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claym711 said:

Um, the entire show has become pop culture fan fiction that's built for t shirt fans.
Says the guy that said
Quote:

I'm just disappointed we didn't see zombie Hodor or Zombie Ned
aTmAg
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chipotle said:

Question: Did the north even need dany and her army?

Let's say Jon get's dany's note to come to dragonstone and bend the knee. Jon tells her to go pound sand. The starks hole up in Winterfell, get overrun by whites (they did anyway with dany's army), lure in the nk and arya kills him. So what exactly Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons....do?

Make it last longer than 10 seconds?

Edit: Without Dani and assuming the NK still had a dragon (otherwise he would still be north of the wall), he would have had his armies stand back, torched the entire castle into a smoldering heap, and then send the hords of zombies.


Edit2: I misread your scenario. So the NK wouldn't have a dragon. Without the unsullied, there would have been nobody to protect the retreat. They would have been overwhelmed within a few minutes rather than in several hours. Arya probably couldn't even make it to the library to sneak around.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I don't mean to sound like a dick, but for real, chipotle?

Without Dany's army, Winterfell is wiped out in minutes.
jtstanley4621
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chipotle said:

Question: Did the north even need dany and her army?

Let's say Jon get's dany's note to come to dragonstone and bend the knee. Jon tells her to go pound sand. The starks hole up in Winterfell, get overrun by whites (they did anyway with dany's army), lure in the nk and arya kills him. So what exactly Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons....do?
I think simply without the Dothraki or the Unsullied they would have lost pretty easily, even though Arya got the final kill. They needed every last person there to be able to buy enough time for them to not be completely overwhelmed before the Night King showed up for Bran.
InternetFan02
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Does the night king even get through the magical wall without Daeny's dragon? They just go through the castle black door?
Urban Ag
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chipotle said:

Question: Did the north even need dany and her army?

Let's say Jon get's dany's note to come to dragonstone and bend the knee. Jon tells her to go pound sand. The starks hole up in Winterfell, get overrun by whites (they did anyway with dany's army), lure in the nk and arya kills him. So what exactly Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons....do?

The dragons burned a sh**load of wights. I finished my re-watch last night and it seemed pretty clear to me that at the time the NK was thrown from his dragon and began walking to the castle, the army of the dead was mostly defeated. The vast majority of them were burned by the dragons. It was when the NK raised the newly dead that they again gained the upper hand. Without the dragons and the Unsullied, Winterfell gets completely overrun in minutes and it's not even close.
gigemJTH12
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M.C. Swag said:

chase128 said:

I thought Jaqen killed the tickler
Ah you're right. I'll edit.


Lmao has this guy even watched the show? Wow.
Brian Earl Spilner
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That's really my only question regarding the WW. How they planned on getting past it, and if the NK foresaw Dany coming and thus planned to get her dragon.

I suppose Bran crossing the wall could've broken the magic that was keeping them out, if there was any in the first place.
M.C. Swag
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Federale01
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True, but there are several people on her list that have shared enemies. If she gets them all, a lot of other character's arc will be left open as well, including the Hounds and Dany/Jon.
chase128
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Arya should be attempting to kill Cersei, I think that's a safe bet. Given Arya's skill level at this point, I think it's going to take a bit of luck or chance for Cersei to avoid her.

Maybe Euron foils Arya's attempt and we get some crazy drama and close calls from that.

I still think Tyrion or Jamie takes out Cersei in some jaw dropping fashion due to old lady's prophecy about Cersei.
InternetFan02
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but for real, chipotle?

Without Dany's army, Winterfell is wiped out in minutes.
how did they benefit from the extra 30 minutes? Either way the night king is going for Bran in the godswood. Either way the night king should have just waited an extra 10 minutes for the dead to completely kill everyone before exposing himself.
City Dumme
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Do you guys think HBO would make a show that was just about the dragons? It seems like thats the only reason everyone watches. They could fly around, eat a goat, give rides to the incest couple, breathe fire. I guess maybe they'd have to talk to move the plot but they don't actually exist anyway so...who cares? Probably only 30 minute episodes though.
chipotle
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but for real, chipotle?

Without Dany's army, Winterfell is wiped out in minutes.

For real. The dead went through all them anyway like they were nothing. Seems like the NK wanted to finish bran himself given whatever scenario so lets say there is no dragon army, the undead mop up over the wall and stop at bran...we're in the same position as the alternative.

Dany going north of the wall gave the NK a dragon which got him through the wall. Sending the dothraki blood riders gave them 10k more dead, going through the unsullied probably netted them a 10k more.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Thinking about the upcoming battle with Cersei, I'm thinking whatever plan Dany/Jon come up with in Episode 4 will likely go to ***** Maybe the remaining Dorne forces are making their way up the coast and Euron wipes them all out. Etc.

Whatever it is we think will give them a fighting chance will promptly go sideways for them, as it did in most of Season 7.

What I don't know is how they'll turn the tide. Whether Dany will finally sic the dragons on the Red Keep, or they somehow flip the GC at the last minute, or the Second Sons show up just in the nick of time, or Jon finally does something heroic that DOES work. We'll see.
M.C. Swag
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M.C. Swag said:

Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

Arya tells Ed Sheeran in the forest she's going to kill the queen. Arya seems like the type to follow through w her threats. It would be really unexpected to give Arya BOTH of the big kills.
Yes, in the same world where Ayra has already killed:
  • polliver
  • waif
  • Meryn Trant
  • the ENTIRE Frey family (avenging the red wedding single handedly)
  • Little Finger
  • and now the Night King
It'd be TOTALLY unexpected if she killed the last remaining villain that's been on her kill list since Season 2. And if there's nothing tv viewers love more, it's having 0 narrative arc payoff in lue of "unexpected = good story telling."

*vomits on self*
My comment above was intended to be contradictory.

It would be the exact opposite of 'unexpected' for Arya to kill Cersei. Much like killing the Night King, Jon or Dany were primed to do the deed. Similarly with Cersei, Arya and Jamie are primed to kill her.

The fact that Arya actually killed the Night King (a character that she didn't even know existed 2 episodes ago) was a moment created for no other reason than shock value. D&D's interview after the show premiered admitted to that very fact.

If you're someone who loved (or even liked) Arya flying through the air at the last second to stab the existential threat that she had 0 interactions with before, then you should be totally game for Cersei to suffer a similar fate. "Subverting expectations" has now become the vehicle to pleasing audiences, so prepare to be subverted!
Brian Earl Spilner
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City Dumme said:

Do you guys think HBO would make a show that was just about the dragons? It seems like thats the only reason everyone watches. They could fly around, eat a goat, give rides to the incest couple, breathe fire. I guess maybe they'd have to talk to move the plot but they don't actually exist anyway so...who cares? Probably only 30 minute episodes though.
gigemJTH12
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What happened to the Knights of the Vail at the battle? Are they still around?

How many troops is believed to be alive? Anything more than 1,000 would be a bad look for the directors.
aTmAg
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chipotle said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

I don't mean to sound like a dick, but for real, chipotle?

Without Dany's army, Winterfell is wiped out in minutes.

For real. The dead went through all them anyway like they were nothing. Seems like the NK wanted to finish bran himself given whatever scenario so lets say there is no dragon army, the undead mop up over the wall and stop at bran...we're in the same position as the alternative.


No they didn't. Up until the giant busted down the gate, the dead were still trickling in over the wall, and it was at least "manageable". By then Arya was sneaking around in the library. Without the unsullied to protect the retreat, that would have happened immediately. Arya would have been trying to defeat 100 zombies at once on the roof rather than 10 one at a time. She would be dead.

Quote:

Dany going north of the wall gave the NK a dragon which got him through the wall. Sending the dothraki blood riders gave them 10k more dead, going through the unsullied probably netted them a 10k more.
In hindsight, the north excursion was clearly a mistake. But nobody could know that the NK could throw an ice javelin like a Surface to air missile.
chipotle
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gigemJTH12 said:

What happened to the Knights of the Vail at the battle? Are they still around?

How many troops is believed to be alive? Anything more than 1,000 would be a bad look to the directors. Unless of course the Knights of the avail like hung off to the right of the battle the whole time and survived

She probably has a few left at casterly rock and dragon stone. Would pretty dumb to bring everyone and leave those places abandoned. Same with the knights of the vale. Surely they have some guys left over there and wouldn't have taken everyone from The Vale. So maybe 10k and a few dragons? That's enough to keep things interesting.
Icecream_Ag
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gigemJTH12 said:

What happened to the Knights of the Vail at the battle? Are they still around?

How many troops is believed to be alive? Anything more than 1,000 would be a bad look for the directors.
they were behind Jamie and Brienne to start, not sure what happened after they pulled back inside the keep.

Not sure on the number but I'll say between 750 and 1500 soldiers survived
bobinator
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The whole plot line of going to steal a wight from beyond the wall is still the dumbest thing that's ever happened on this show. All of this back and forth of the smaller points of this episode pale in comparison that crap.
Urban Ag
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

That's really my only question regarding the WW. How they planned on getting past it, and if the NK foresaw Dany coming and thus planned to get her dragon.

I suppose Bran crossing the wall could've broken the magic that was keeping them out, if there was any in the first place.
I think the only reasonable answer to this is that the show writers had to get the WW's south of the wall so they had to come up with something. There was no source material and GRRM has not even gotten close to it in the books. Frankly, I think they came up with a pretty good story there. The Wall is supposedly infused with some kind of magic that keeps the WW's from being able to cross it. Dragons are magical creatures. So using a wighted magical creature to break the wall seems plausible (in terms of being part of a fantasy series).

Now I need to go read some Tom Clancy to de-nerd myself.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Agreed.

Cersei didn't even have much of an army at the time. (Pre-GC.)
JABQ04
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Urban Ag said:

chipotle said:

Question: Did the north even need dany and her army?

Let's say Jon get's dany's note to come to dragonstone and bend the knee. Jon tells her to go pound sand. The starks hole up in Winterfell, get overrun by whites (they did anyway with dany's army), lure in the nk and arya kills him. So what exactly Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regent of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons....do?

The dragons burned a sh**load of wights. I finished my re-watch last night and it seemed pretty clear to me that at the time the NK was thrown from his dragon and began walking to the castle, the army of the dead was mostly defeated. The vast majority of them were burned by the dragons. It was when the NK raised the newly dead that they again gained the upper hand. Without the dragons and the Unsullied, Winterfell gets completely overrun in minutes and it's not even close.


I don't know about the AoD being almost defeated. All the heroes were fighting with their backs to the wall (literally) and if you watch as the NK is destroyed and his army begins to die off they are still pouring over the fire trench in waves. Dragons burned a **** load of wights but still tens of thousands coming on, plus at least he 20K Jon and Dany gave him via the Dothraki and Unsullied
StringerBell
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lmao it sure seems like a lot of yall hate watch this show
aTmAg
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bobinator said:

The whole plot line of going to steal a wight from beyond the wall is still the dumbest thing that's ever happened on this show. All of this back and forth of the smaller points of this episode pale in comparison that crap.
So if you were in Jon's position, and you think you needed Cersei's army to help, what would you do differently to convince her?

I do not think the idea of kidnapping a zombie was that ridiculous, however they could have executed it a LOT better. For example, I think they should have had dragons providing air cover the whole time. Everybody criticizes the plan because they lost a dragon. To me that is a bogus criticism. None of them could have possibly known about the NK's superman level throwing arm.
bobinator
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StringerBell said:

lmao it sure seems like a lot of yall hate watch this show
Yeah, I don't get why some people that seem to absolutely hate everything about this episode keep posting. Like, we get it, you hated it, let's move on.

I think there's a difference though between that and those of us that still love the show, but think there have been some mis-steps along the way.
Urban Ag
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bobinator said:

The whole plot line of going to steal a wight from beyond the wall is still the dumbest thing that's ever happened on this show. All of this back and forth of the smaller points of this episode pale in comparison that crap.
I don't think going beyond the wall to capture a wight is any more or less ridiculous than the notion that wights exist at all.

What was ridiculous was that they could get a raven to fly from Eastwatch to Dragonstone and then get Dany and the dragons back north of the wall in less time than exposure to the cold would have killed Jon and Co. Even more ridiculous was that Jon could be plunged in to freezing waters wearing fur and leather for what seemed to be at least a couple of minutes, than out of the water soaked to the bone in below freezing temps, and not die of hypothermia on the ride back to Eastwatch.

I swear, that episode was absolutely stunningly amazing (dragons BBQ'ing the dead) and painfully stupid all in one.
gigemJTH12
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StringerBell said:

lmao it sure seems like a lot of yall hate watch this show


Dude. I was 2 minutes from posting this. This thread has turned into a GOT bashing thread. Some of these folks just sound miserable.
MW03
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Welp. I spent 7 years waiting for the Battle of Winterfell. Somehow, the 7 days of reading about the Battle of Winterfell have felt twice as long. I'm now ready for Episode 4. Not because I'm particularly excited about it, but because I'm excited for this thread to have something else to talk about. Makes no sense, but here we are.
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