Let's talk logistics here and discuss how many survived at winterfell and who is going to pickup and arrange the 150-160k dead bodies in the front lawn? Is danny going to chip in and help?
****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******
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Last: 2 yr ago by Prosperdick
City Dumme said:
I started watching this season because my coworkers won't shut up about it and guys, this episode was very bad. I couldn't see a damn thing and even when I could I had no idea what was going on. The redheads are both hot but who is one of them and why did she commit suicide? Why don't the dragons do more cool stuff.
So you haven't watched the first 7 seasons and are complaining you can't figure out what is going on?
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
There is plenty to criticize about that episode. The notion of going to get a wight is not one of them. Nor is the notion of Dani flying dragons over there.Urban Ag said:I don't think going beyond the wall to capture a wight is any more or less ridiculous than the notion that wights exist at all.bobinator said:
The whole plot line of going to steal a wight from beyond the wall is still the dumbest thing that's ever happened on this show. All of this back and forth of the smaller points of this episode pale in comparison that crap.
What was ridiculous was that they could get a raven to fly from Eastwatch to Dragonstone and then get Dany and the dragons back north of the wall in less time than exposure to the cold would have killed Jon and Co. Even more ridiculous was that Jon could be plunged in to freezing waters wearing fur and leather for what seemed to be at least a couple of minutes, than out of the water soaked to the bone in below freezing temps, and not die of hypothermia on the ride back to Eastwatch.
I swear, that episode was absolutely stunningly amazing (dragons BBQ'ing the dead) and painfully stupid all in one.
Two dragons.
Just pile the dead close together and let the dragons burn them to ash.
Just pile the dead close together and let the dragons burn them to ash.
I can think of no less than two solutions for a relatively quick disposal of said 150k corpses.chipotle said:
Let's talk logistics here and discuss how many survived at winterfell and who is going to pickup and arrange the 150-160k dead bodies in the front lawn? Is danny going to chip in and help?
Well, there are a few things at play here. And not all of them are just that the plan itself was bad.aTmAg said:
So if you were in Jon's position, and you think you needed Cersei's army to help, what would you do differently to convince her?
I do not think the idea of kidnapping a zombie was that ridiculous, however they could have executed it a LOT better. For example, I think they should have had dragons providing air cover the whole time. Everybody criticizes the plan because they lost a dragon. To me that is a bogus criticism. None of them could have possibly known about the NK's superman level throwing arm.
1) Should retrieving a wight from beyond the wall even have worked? From what we've been told in the show, the wights can't cross the wall because of some kind of magic. So it probably should have been impossible for them to carry one back anyway.
2) Why were they on foot? The best plan they could really come up with was to walk all the way north, grab a wight, and then carry it all the way back? That would (theoretically) take MONTHS.
3) If you're going to have the dragons on call anyway, a far better and simpler plan would have just been to have the dragon fly north, drop down and grab one, and fly back. Easy peasy. (Maybe wouldn't have worked because of the NK, but they didn't know that.)
But overall it just reeked of backwards writing by the writers. What could bring down the wall? A dragon. Okay how do we get the NK a dragon, why would Dany send a dragon beyond the wall? People she cares about lives are in danger. Why are people she cares about beyond the wall? Um... they went to steal a wight?
It looks like the video that they use torches. That is going to smell BAD. Would be better to let the dragons burn them at 2000 degrees (or whatever) and get it over with.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Two dragons.
Just pile the dead close together and let the dragons burn them to ash.
Perhaps that is Dani's plan. "If you guys join me, you don't have to smell this anymore"
Honestly, yes. Going to get a wight was ridiculous.
They had Dany's massive armies, a mostly united north, and 3 dragons.
How large of an army did Cersei have at the time? Was it worth risking the life of the King in the North to add a [much smaller] Lannister army to their forces? (A southern army, no less. Plus a lot more mouths to feed.)
They had Dany's massive armies, a mostly united north, and 3 dragons.
How large of an army did Cersei have at the time? Was it worth risking the life of the King in the North to add a [much smaller] Lannister army to their forces? (A southern army, no less. Plus a lot more mouths to feed.)
to that I agree.
And yet it still remains one of my favorites.
And yet it still remains one of my favorites.
The burning is the easy part. I'm just saying if a thousand survive then each person is responsible for picking up and taking 150 bodies to the pile. I don't seeing dany or sansa getting their hands dirty.
This is where I think the next episode picks up. Gathering the bodies at Winterfell, I think maybe they find something important in the crypts, etc.
Then they're going to have a mass burning out in front.
Then they're going to have a mass burning out in front.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
That's really my only question regarding the WW. How they planned on getting past it, and if the NK foresaw Dany coming and thus planned to get her dragon.
I suppose Bran crossing the wall could've broken the magic that was keeping them out, if there was any in the first place.
The Wildlings climbed the unguarded areas of the wall lots of times since the Nights Watch is so undermanned. I assume he and the WWs could climb it and kill the garrison at Castle Black and open the gate for the army of the dead.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
geez, who f'ing cares?chipotle said:
The burning is the easy part. I'm just saying if a thousand survive then each person is responsible for picking up and taking 150 bodies to the pile. I don't seeing dany or sansa getting their hands dirty.
There aren't that many dead bodies. They probably only killed a couple hundred wights with combat. All the humans who died were resurrected right before the NK died and turned into dust.
It is nice that the Night King made sure there wouldn't be a mess left behind if he was ever killed.gigemJTH12 said:
There aren't that many dead bodies. They probably only killed a couple hundred wights with combat. All the humans who died were resurrected right before the NK died and turned into dust.
I didn't think the wights turned to dust. I thought it was only the Night King and White Walkers who broke apart as ice chips the wights just fell to the ground.
With most of the armies wiped out, the feast at Winterfell finna be like
John killed a wight south of the wall in season one. (The bald guy)bobinator said:Well, there are a few things at play here. And not all of them are just that the plan itself was bad.aTmAg said:
So if you were in Jon's position, and you think you needed Cersei's army to help, what would you do differently to convince her?
I do not think the idea of kidnapping a zombie was that ridiculous, however they could have executed it a LOT better. For example, I think they should have had dragons providing air cover the whole time. Everybody criticizes the plan because they lost a dragon. To me that is a bogus criticism. None of them could have possibly known about the NK's superman level throwing arm.
1) Should retrieving a wight from beyond the wall even have worked? From what we've been told in the show, the wights can't cross the wall because of some kind of magic. So it probably should have been impossible for them to carry one back anyway.
Agreed. They should have been on horseback.Quote:
2) Why were they on foot? The best plan they could really come up with was to walk all the way north, grab a wight, and then carry it all the way back? That would (theoretically) take MONTHS.
As a person who flies general aviation aircraft that would be damn hard. An individual person would be hard to spot, and there is a good chance that all his buddies would see the dragons flying overhead and would have come running. The dragons should be used for "air support" in case they get a huge mass of them.Quote:
3) If you're going to have the dragons on call anyway, a far better and simpler plan would have just been to have the dragon fly north, drop down and grab one, and fly back. Easy peasy. (Maybe wouldn't have worked because of the NK, but they didn't know that.)
They could not have possibly known about the NK's superman arm. Before that episode, everybody (probably even you) assumed that Dani flying 3000 feet over the walkers was the safest person around.Quote:
But overall it just reeked of backwards writing by the writers. What could bring down the wall? A dragon. Okay how do we get the NK a dragon, why would Dany send a dragon beyond the wall? People she cares about lives are in danger. Why are people she cares about beyond the wall? Um... they went to steal a wight?
And you still haven't presented a better idea on how to convince Cersei to join the war.
The idea itself is what's dumb. They didn't need Cersei's forces, they were very small in comparison.Quote:
And you still haven't presented a better idea on how to convince Cersei to join the war.
Sadly, the guy you quoted is exactly correct because the writers themselves confirmed it. They knew they needed a dragon to bring down the wall, so they had the very last scene mapped out before the season was even written.
The wife and I actually discussed this. Obviously WW's shatter in to ice chips, this is known. But with the wights it seems to be a level of juiciness. Skeleton wights have consistently shattered but they have a juiciness level of 1 or less. The newly dead and recently re-animated just seem to slump over, clearly having a juiciness level of 8-10. Everything in between either shatters/turns to dust or slumps over based on their state of decomposition, of juiciness level. That's what I'm going with anyway.DartAg1970 said:
I didn't think the wights turned to dust. I thought it was only the Night King and White Walkers who broke apart as ice chips the wights just fell to the ground.
And that meeting proved pretty pointless as well other than giving cersei information about her enemies. But wow...they got jamie out of that deal.
I don't know how big Cersei' army was, but I assume pretty freaking big still. She is queen afterall. And it's not just about helping them fight the NK. It's also about a truce so that Dani wouldn't have to fight a two front war at the same time. One against Cersei and the other against the NK. The plan was fine. It's not their fault that Cersei is a beoootch.Brian Earl Spilner said:
Honestly, yes. Going to get a wight was ridiculous.
They had Dany's massive armies, a mostly united north, and 3 dragons.
How large of an army did Cersei have at the time? Was it worth risking the life of the King in the North to add a [much smaller] Lannister army to their forces? (A southern army, no less. Plus a lot more mouths to feed.)
Urban Ag said:The wife and I actually discussed this. Obviously WW's shatter in to ice chips, this is known. But with the wights it seems to be a level of juiciness. Skeleton wights have consistently shattered but they have a juiciness level of 1 or less. The newly dead and recently re-animated just seem to slump over, clearly having a juiciness level of 8-10. Everything in between either shatters/turns to dust or slumps over based on their state of decomposition, of juiciness level. That's what I'm going with anyway.DartAg1970 said:
I didn't think the wights turned to dust. I thought it was only the Night King and White Walkers who broke apart as ice chips the wights just fell to the ground.
The wight that Jon killed wasn't a wight when it came through the wall. It was a dead body that was raised once it was back at the castle. Which is an important distinction. I don't care what kind of rules you set forth in a fantasy world, as long as you play by those rules.
Also I'm not sure what flying general aviation aircraft has to do with anything. This isn't a plane. It's a dragon. And it's not like you have to be careful with the cargo, the wights don't die until you completely destroy them.
I don't have to present a better idea to convince Cersei to join the war (though why that's even necessary is also a decent question.)
But there's no need to keep rehashing this from last season, I'm just saying that some of the complaints about this episode seem trivial to how crazy all of that was from both a character decision and plot mechanics standpoint.
Also I'm not sure what flying general aviation aircraft has to do with anything. This isn't a plane. It's a dragon. And it's not like you have to be careful with the cargo, the wights don't die until you completely destroy them.
I don't have to present a better idea to convince Cersei to join the war (though why that's even necessary is also a decent question.)
But there's no need to keep rehashing this from last season, I'm just saying that some of the complaints about this episode seem trivial to how crazy all of that was from both a character decision and plot mechanics standpoint.
It wasn't JUST to get Cersei to help fight the NK. It was to have a truce so Cersei didn't attack Dani from the south while they were fighting the NK.Brian Earl Spilner said:The idea itself is what's dumb. They didn't need Cersei's forces, they were very small in comparison.Quote:
And you still haven't presented a better idea on how to convince Cersei to join the war.
Sadly, the guy you quoted is exactly correct because the writers themselves confirmed it. They knew they needed a dragon to bring down the wall, so they had the very last scene mapped out before the season was even written.
She would never have sent her armies all the way North to have them die needlessly.
I find it really strange that you are defending what many see as a very poorly written idea to get a wight, but endlessly criticize the show for having underage children as Lords, which has always been an important aspect of the show.
I find it really strange that you are defending what many see as a very poorly written idea to get a wight, but endlessly criticize the show for having underage children as Lords, which has always been an important aspect of the show.
I don't think I'm being overly sensitive if I feel like I'm a target of these 2 comments. So I'll respondgigemJTH12 said:Dude. I was 2 minutes from posting this. This thread has turned into a GOT bashing thread. Some of these folks just sound miserable.StringerBell said:
lmao it sure seems like a lot of yall hate watch this show
1) I didn't know this thread was solely dedicated to praise or prediction. I was under the impression that ALL things GoT related could be discussed. If people can engage in a discussion prompted by 'will we see bewbs again' I think it's fair to say that I can discuss my criticisms with an episode that aired 4 days ago without getting called miserable.
2) I don't hate this show. In fact I love it (I would hazard to guess that my affection for this show runs deeper, or at least as deep, as anyone else here). I've watched every episode multiple times. Read all the books multiple times. I'm invested in this story beyond a casual 60 minute viewing appointment on some Sundays. It's the fantasy epic of my lifetime. But to say you love something, doesn't immunize it from its own faults. Seasons 1-4 are generally considered by many (including me) as the best string of episodes in television history. The faults of this show have been slowly materializing in higher frequency and magnitude since S7. However, at this point, I've dedicated over a decade of my life to this story line and that type of investment is nearly impossible to sell off. There's almost nothing this show could do that would make me stop watching the last 3 episodes. The hooks are in me too deep (and I suspect it's the same for many others). Unlike The Walking Dead, it's far too late for anyone to bail out now.
So apologies if it appears I'm just 'hate watching' it. That couldn't be further from the truth.
Just read the quote below in an article. Does anyone think this is what happened? I thought Jon just lost it in the courtyard and decided to stand up, yell defiantly at the dragon, and wait for it to burn him alive.
Frankly, this makes more sense.
ETA: Sorry if this was already recently posted. I took a break from reading the posts yesterday because they stopped being interesting.
Frankly, this makes more sense.
Quote:
The latest theory to get tongues wagging is that Jon Snow actually did help to kill the night king. Just before Arya reached the Night King, Snow can be seen coming from behind his shelter to fight Viserion, the undead dragon. Apparently, he screams "Go!," allowing Arya to pass by and do her deed.
ETA: Sorry if this was already recently posted. I took a break from reading the posts yesterday because they stopped being interesting.
They aren't talking about you, they are talking about aTmAg.
Yea, when I saw that theory it made a ton of sense to me.
Also, just one idea to convince Cersei, instead of bringing a dangerous magical undead zombie 1,000 miles to her, take her (or, since there's no way she'd have gone, someone she trusts, Qyburn I'm sure would have volunteered, or Jaime) to them.
"Alright everyone, we have this big threat up north. I know you don't believe me, so let's get a few people on horseback and I'll show you from a safe distance."
This is basically what they ended up doing anyway, so why not add one more guy to the group.
"Alright everyone, we have this big threat up north. I know you don't believe me, so let's get a few people on horseback and I'll show you from a safe distance."
This is basically what they ended up doing anyway, so why not add one more guy to the group.
The general aviation point is to point out how hard it is to spot something from up there. And that's in an enclosed cockpit without the 140MPH wind blowing in your face. I often fly to Colter field in college station (which is not large) and I have tried to see if my parents van is in the parking lot already. I have never once been able to spot it and every time so far they have beat me there and were waiting. That is a van in a sparse parking lot. Imagine how hard it is to spot an individual wight. It would be basically impossible. It's not like they have a TFLIR on dragons.bobinator said:
The wight that Jon killed wasn't a wight when it came through the wall. It was a dead body that was raised once it was back at the castle. Which is an important distinction. I don't care what kind of rules you set forth in a fantasy world, as long as you play by those rules.
Also I'm not sure what flying general aviation aircraft has to do with anything. This isn't a plane. It's a dragon. And it's not like you have to be careful with the cargo, the wights don't die until you completely destroy them.
I don't have to present a better idea to convince Cersei to join the war (though why that's even necessary is also a decent question.)
But there's no need to keep rehashing this from last season, I'm just saying that some of the complaints about this episode seem trivial to how crazy all of that was from both a character decision and plot mechanics standpoint.
And I think the fact fact that the wight south of the wall was plenty of proof, even if it was dead when it was brought over was plenty of evidence. If they were satisfied that wall magic was good enough then there wouldn't be a need for a big ass gate nor for it to be 700 feet tall.
Nah, I think jon was doing what jon does best....fighting...no plans....just fighting. And he was there meeting his supposed end.
WTF are you talking about? I'm not the guy bashing the show. I'm the guy defending it.smokeythebear said:
They aren't talking about you, they are talking about aTmAg.
Ooh, I like that. That's pretty good, but I wish it was clear in the episode, if true. Though I know that ruins the "surprise".