****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Fenrir
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In reply to Trident 88 • 1:47p, 4/30/19
Shocked at character death doesn't mean it's bad writing. I was stunned when ned died. It made for a hell of a story though.

When every major character survives insurmountable odds, that's fan fiction.

You also seem to assume that the Venn diagram people shocked by ned and the red wedding is the same circle as those wanting major character deaths at winterfell which seems an odd assumption.
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dallasiteinsa02
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1:48p, 4/30/19
I have to assume at this point that if you survived you have a needed role in the last three episodes or they would have just killed you off.
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Trident 88
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In reply to Fenrir • 1:51p, 4/30/19
AG
Fenrir said:
Shocked at character death doesn't mean it's bad writing. I was stunned when ned died. It made for a hell of a story though.

When every major character survives insurmountable odds, that's fan fiction.

You also seem to assume that the Venn diagram people shocked by ned and the red wedding is the same circle as those wanting major character deaths at winterfell which seems an odd assumption.
In no way did I imply that anything was bad writing. "Shocked" and "stunned" mean the same thing, at least as far as my comment is concerned.

I don't assume anything at all. I'm just pointing out a pattern. We'll see if it holds true.

Don't overanalyze my comment.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Trident 88 • 1:55p, 4/30/19
AG
Trident 88 said:
Ned Stark dies, and everyone is shocked and upset.

Then, we have the Red Wedding. Everyone is shocked and upset again.

Then, we have the battle against the NK and his army, and lots of folks are pissed off that too many of the main characters are still alive.

Has it occurred to anyone that allowing so many of them to live was the shocking (and to many, upsetting) option for the writers to choose?

It actually makes sense, given that the element of betrayal is what was different when you compare Ned's execution and the Red Wedding to this good old-fashioned brawl. Betrayal is what really makes the death of a main character sting, and if this long story stays true to its roots, we're going to see it again in the battle at King's Landing.
I wrote a detailed response to refute this notion (before aTmAg decided to bite my head off) here:
https://texags.com/forums/13/topics/2877532/replies/54170945
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SpreadsheetAg
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In reply to dc509 • 1:58p, 4/30/19
AG
dc509 said:
I feel pretty confident that Arya is going to live. Sansa might not.
Arya - the new Kingslayer
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CapCityAg89
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 1:59p, 4/30/19
AG
I thought this was funny given our earlier conversation ...

Watchers on the Wall Post-Mortem

Quote:
The episode's MVP was definitely Arya Stark, but Maisie Williams wasn't sure how fans would react to her killing the Night King. She tells Entertainment Weekly that she "immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn't deserve it. The hardest thing is in any series is when you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them. It has to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, 'Well, [the villain] couldn't have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.' You gotta make it cool. And then I told my boyfriend and he was like, 'Mmm, should be Jon though really, shouldn't it?'" Maybe it's time for a new boyfriendjust saying.

Williams came around to the idea quickly, however. "When we did the whole bit with Melisandre, I realized the whole scene with [the Red Woman] brings it back to everything I've been working for over these past 6 seasonsIt all comes down to this one very moment. It's also unexpected and that's what this show does. So then I was like, 'Fk you Jon, I get it.'"
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bobinator
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In reply to Trident 88 • 1:59p, 4/30/19
AG
You can't oversimplify everyone else's comments and then say not to over-analyze your comment.


Quote:
Has it occurred to anyone that allowing so many of them to live was the shocking (and to many, upsetting) option for the writers to choose?
You seem to be lumping in "upsetting" of the 'oh man, that sucks' type with the 'that makes no sense' type.

The issue isn't that so many people lived per se, it's that they showed so many of them in seemingly insurmountable situations (some of them multiple times) and then they were all fine at the end.
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Fenrir
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In reply to Trident 88 • 2:00p, 4/30/19
Yes "shocked" and "stunned" are synonymous. Neither mean inherently upset though.
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bangobango
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In reply to aTmAg • 2:03p, 4/30/19
AG
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:

Yes no doubt it added to the emotion... and for budget reasons made it easier.

But purely from a watcher point of view more light would have been better in several places. The Dothraki attack for one thing... they got off cheap there really and kill 100K without showing anything. then they roll in the clouds and obscured everything.

I get why - both cost and tension. Just saying it sucked that way for some of it.
I think the clouds and storm was a great tactical move by the NK (he seemed smarter than the good guys). And he had done it in the past, so it was consistent. I would have expected him to do that even if it was during the day. Especially when you are going against dragons. Before that storm, Jon and Dany were doing pretty damned good against the zombies. It probably would have been a close fight if it wasn't for that storm taking the dragons out of the mix.


You are insufferable on this thread with all the goal tending. You don't have to respond to every single criticism.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to CapCityAg89 • 2:04p, 4/30/19
AG
CapCityAg89 said:
I thought this was funny given our earlier conversation ...

Watchers on the Wall Post-Mortem

Quote:
The episode's MVP was definitely Arya Stark, but Maisie Williams wasn't sure how fans would react to her killing the Night King. She tells Entertainment Weekly that she "immediately thought that everybody would hate it; that Arya doesn't deserve it. The hardest thing is in any series is when you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them. It has to be intelligently done because otherwise people are like, 'Well, [the villain] couldn't have been that bad when some 100-pound girl comes in and stabs him.' You gotta make it cool. And then I told my boyfriend and he was like, 'Mmm, should be Jon though really, shouldn't it?'" Maybe it's time for a new boyfriendjust saying.

Williams came around to the idea quickly, however. "When we did the whole bit with Melisandre, I realized the whole scene with [the Red Woman] brings it back to everything I've been working for over these past 6 seasonsIt all comes down to this one very moment. It's also unexpected and that's what this show does. So then I was like, 'Fk you Jon, I get it.'"
TIL Maise Williams FEAR(ed) ME! (or my anonymous message board blogs) lol jk

I can sympathize with her though. That's gotta be tough dealing with super nerdy a-holes who would actually reach out to her with that kind of crap. I hope she's enjoying the moment. It truly was one of the most memorable (and important) scenes in televised history. Kudos to her. And just the fact that she had that kind of 'awareness' makes her seem really grounded and invested to the story.
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bobinator
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2:06p, 4/30/19
AG
I do actually think that a hard part of writing this episode is, if you decided a bunch of our heroes had to go down, they'd all be going down in really similar ways. There's only so many 'overwhelmed by zombies' deaths that will be dramatic to the audience, and not everyone can have a dramatic Lady Mormont giant-killing death.

It would be different if it were characters versus each other because then you have folks you care about on both sides, but in this battle nobody cares about any of the dead except for the Night King.

I definitely get why not as many people died as we thought might going in. You want each of those deaths to be impactful. I can totally see that.

It's just that the build up "THIS MIGHT BE IT..... j/k they're fine" for so many of them was kind of eye-rolling.
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Prime0882
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 2:07p, 4/30/19
AG
I don't think this was the most memorable GoT moment, let alone in televised history. I think the Red Wedding will remain the defining moment of GoT.
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Swarely
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In reply to NukeAg10 • 2:10p, 4/30/19
NukeAg10 said:
Agnzona said:
NukeAg10 said:
You mean besides the fact that a valeryian steel blade is what killed the NK? I know, pretty insignificant.


That was always a given. I'm talking about in the general battle.


I understand what you mean, but with the shear amount of wites I don't see how it could've been made out to be any more significant throughout the whole battle. They were completely overrun, and they did make a point to show that the dragon glass and valeryian steel swords were able to stop them in their tracks.


Should have made thousands of dragonglass tipped caltrops.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Prime0882 • 2:11p, 4/30/19
AG
lol omg can't say anything in here without a debate breaking out. It was an undeniably impactful scene and I said it was ONE OF the most memorable moments in televised history (christ, I was even 1 of those people who Maisie referenced and wasn't super stoked about that scene but even I can acknowledge it's weight). You can still have RW in your gold medal podium. It's ok.
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Prime0882
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 2:15p, 4/30/19
AG
M.C. Swag said:
lol omg can't say anything in here without a debate breaking out. It was an undeniably impactful scene and I said it was ONE OF the most memorable moments in televised history. You can still have RW in your gold medal podium. It's ok.
Nice post reply edit of your statement.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to Prime0882 • 2:19p, 4/30/19
AG
JRC0811 said:
M.C. Swag said:
lol omg can't say anything in here without a debate breaking out. It was an undeniably impactful scene and I said it was ONE OF the most memorable moments in televised history. You can still have RW in your gold medal podium. It's ok.
Nice post reply edit of your statement.
My edit was spelling/grammar. Nice troll tho. It got me.
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agsquirrel97
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In reply to Fat Bib Fortuna • 2:21p, 4/30/19
AG
MuckRaker96 said:
For the morning crowd, here's the official standings after 3 episodes for the Tex Ags Game of Game of Thrones

AgSquirrel97 40+21 = 61
Urban Ag 40+18 = 58
Spreadsheet Ag 40 + 18 = 58
Geoff H. 40 + 15 = 55
Texas Aggie '99 40 + 12 = 52
Walton Loads 30 + 21 = 51
oldag00 30 + 21 = 51
TxRunner97 30 + 18 = 48
Derek J. 30 + 18 = 48
Brian Earl Spilner 30 + 18 = 48
Rex Racer 20 + 21 = 41
Saint Arnold 20 + 18 = 38
wangus12 20 + 18 = 38

Andy W. 20 + 15 = 35
ChipolteMonger 30 + 15 = 35

Myles Moore 20 + 12 = 32



CoachRTM 10 + 18 = 28


In my expert opinion (I have posted my credentials above)

I watched the episode on my iPad with no viewing issues and thought it was beautiful.

I agree with some previous comments about this being Jon's kill maybe with Arya's help. I think it would have been nice as a nod to Ned and Howland killing Ser Authur Dayne together. Let Jon have the kill after slashing through some White Walkers and when struggling and obviously outmatched by the NK Arya could still fly in and allow Jon to get the killing blow.

I have been disconnected from the world while sitting on a beach in Dom Rep, so apologies if this has been discussed, I can't keep up with the seesaw battle of it sucked / best thing ever going on around here.

Put me in the camp of loved it, wish a couple of plot holes were shored up better.
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tk for tu juan
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In reply to Prime0882 • 2:25p, 4/30/19
All of the book readers knew what was going to happen at the Red Wedding. No one knew Arya was going to pounce on the Night King with Catspaw
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swc93
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2:25p, 4/30/19
AG
Quote:
I do actually think that a hard part of writing this episode is, if you decided a bunch of our heroes had to go down, they'd all be going down in really similar ways. There's only so many 'overwhelmed by zombies' deaths that will be dramatic to the audience, and not everyone can have a dramatic Lady Mormont giant-killing death.
I have only watched it once; so I don't recall who they all showed alive at the end or in the sneak peak for next week. If they didn't specifically show someone alive; I still think it is possible we find some main characters just dead under a pile of walkers. Who all survived in the vaults? Pod alive? We going to find Brienne alive under a dead Tormund? Grey Worm survives only to discover Missandei died in the crypts? The battle was chaotic; the writers at the end of the show also said not everyone would get a dramatic death like Lady Mormont.

IDK; just a thought for when I re-watch.
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bobinator
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In reply to swc93 • 2:27p, 4/30/19
AG
I think finding random main characters dead at the start of the next episode would be even worse than them not dying in this episode.
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swc93
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In reply to bobinator • 2:32p, 4/30/19
AG
bobinator said:
I think finding random main characters dead at the start of the next episode would be even worse than them not dying in this episode.
I doubt they do it; but I've seen it before in battle movies.
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bangobango
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In reply to swc93 • 2:39p, 4/30/19
AG
swc93 said:
Quote:
I do actually think that a hard part of writing this episode is, if you decided a bunch of our heroes had to go down, they'd all be going down in really similar ways. There's only so many 'overwhelmed by zombies' deaths that will be dramatic to the audience, and not everyone can have a dramatic Lady Mormont giant-killing death.
I have only watched it once; so I don't recall who they all showed alive at the end or in the sneak peak for next week. If they didn't specifically show someone alive; I still think it is possible we find some main characters just dead under a pile of walkers. Who all survived in the vaults? Pod alive? We going to find Brienne alive under a dead Tormund? Grey Worm survives only to discover Missandei died in the crypts? The battle was chaotic; the writers at the end of the show also said not everyone would get a dramatic death like Lady Mormont.

IDK; just a thought for when I re-watch.


Next week preview spoiler: preview shows them all alive.
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gambochaman
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2:48p, 4/30/19
AG
episode was absolutely masterful. I had zero issues with the darkness and in fact, thought it added to the immersion in the total hopelessness and despair and chaos.

it was a fitting end to the side threat that had to be dealt with before the iron throne could be decided. brilliant episode with a brilliant ending.

on to KL!
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PatAg
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In reply to bangobango • 2:55p, 4/30/19
AG
bangobango said:
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:

Yes no doubt it added to the emotion... and for budget reasons made it easier.

But purely from a watcher point of view more light would have been better in several places. The Dothraki attack for one thing... they got off cheap there really and kill 100K without showing anything. then they roll in the clouds and obscured everything.

I get why - both cost and tension. Just saying it sucked that way for some of it.
I think the clouds and storm was a great tactical move by the NK (he seemed smarter than the good guys). And he had done it in the past, so it was consistent. I would have expected him to do that even if it was during the day. Especially when you are going against dragons. Before that storm, Jon and Dany were doing pretty damned good against the zombies. It probably would have been a close fight if it wasn't for that storm taking the dragons out of the mix.


You are insufferable on this thread with all the goal tending. You don't have to respond to every single criticism.
The second the ice storm started appearing I thought to myself "this is 100% what the Night King would do", and it was pretty awesome looking, imo.
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aTmAg
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In reply to bangobango • 2:58p, 4/30/19
AG
bangobango said:
aTmAg said:
Zombie Jon Snow said:

Yes no doubt it added to the emotion... and for budget reasons made it easier.

But purely from a watcher point of view more light would have been better in several places. The Dothraki attack for one thing... they got off cheap there really and kill 100K without showing anything. then they roll in the clouds and obscured everything.

I get why - both cost and tension. Just saying it sucked that way for some of it.
I think the clouds and storm was a great tactical move by the NK (he seemed smarter than the good guys). And he had done it in the past, so it was consistent. I would have expected him to do that even if it was during the day. Especially when you are going against dragons. Before that storm, Jon and Dany were doing pretty damned good against the zombies. It probably would have been a close fight if it wasn't for that storm taking the dragons out of the mix.


You are insufferable on this thread with all the goal tending. You don't have to respond to every single criticism.
We were having a good discussion until you came along. And I haven't "responded to every single criticsm". I have been agreeing with people since Sunday on the show being too damn dark, too many people staying alive, etc.


Just because one disagrees with you doesn't make them insufferable.
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PatAg
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In reply to bobinator • 2:59p, 4/30/19
AG
bobinator said:
I think finding random main characters dead at the start of the next episode would be even worse than them not dying in this episode.
If they want to do something similar, they could have some of them suffering from wounds and potentially dying. That would be a more believable thing to see after a battle like that.
Personally, I think they should have either gone out like Edd or survived the battle
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bobinator
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In reply to PatAg • 3:01p, 4/30/19
AG
That would be kind of funny if a bunch of random people died next episode because of a fast spreading infection from the contact with all of those decaying bodies.

The army of the north can't come south yet because they're dealing with MRSA.

Nobody would see that coming.
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PatAg
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3:04p, 4/30/19
AG
Feel like I might just tell the dragons to have some fun breathing fire for an hour
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Silky Johnston
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3:07p, 4/30/19
Haven't read through all the comments, but was anyone else let down by the episode? It feels like that was the end of the show and I don't seem too interested in how it ends with Cersei. The threat of the WWs and the end of humanity was the the start of the show and the main storyline throughout, but it just kind of ended in a not very spectacular way.
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to Silky Johnston • 3:09p, 4/30/19
AG
Silky Johnston said:
Haven't read through all the comments, but was anyone else let down by the episode? It feels like that was the end of the show and I don't seem too interested in how it ends with Cersei. The threat of the WWs and the end of humanity was the the start of the show and the main storyline throughout, but it just kind of ended in a not very spectacular way.


Yeah, there are some. A few came around to it on a second rewatch though.

I think there are some major surprises coming up. I don't think it's just going to fizzle out over the course of the next 3 episodes.
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bangobango
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In reply to Silky Johnston • 3:09p, 4/30/19
AG
Silky Johnston said:
Haven't read through all the comments, but was anyone else let down by the episode? It feels like that was the end of the show and I don't seem too interested in how it ends with Cersei. The threat of the WWs and the end of humanity was the the start of the show and the main storyline throughout, but it just kind of ended in a not very spectacular way.


A lot of people feel the same, but get ready for some of these posters to tell you how stupid you are for feeling that way.
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claym711
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3:10p, 4/30/19
AG
So half the entire show was built up around winter is coming and NK's army, and they're wiped out in an episode that is a combo of LOTR, Top Gun, and Jurassic Park - even down to the kitchen scene.

Bran literally does nothing. Takes a nap or something.

Every important character except Jorah is saved at the last possible second throughout the episode.

Nothing original or surprising.

This show has just become big budget pop culture. It's still entertaining, but neither the plot, writing, or acting are special.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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3:11p, 4/30/19
AG
Can someone explain the Top Gun thing? I've seen that mentioned a few times.
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bangobango
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 3:14p, 4/30/19
AG
Champ Bailey said:
Silky Johnston said:
Haven't read through all the comments, but was anyone else let down by the episode? It feels like that was the end of the show and I don't seem too interested in how it ends with Cersei. The threat of the WWs and the end of humanity was the the start of the show and the main storyline throughout, but it just kind of ended in a not very spectacular way.


Yeah, there are some. A few came around to it on a second rewatch though.

I think there are some major surprises coming up. I don't think it's just going to fizzle out over the course of the next 3 episodes.
After reading some of the actors comments about the decision to allow Arya get the big kill and how they knew that would upset people, I am starting to let myself believe the Winter threat is not over.

There is another big plot hole, but at this point I don't know if this is one of the typical tv writers "we don't care" or if they are going to actually try to resolve it and it happens in the next three episodes. That plot hole is that winter has come before and been beaten back, at least once by the Azor Ahai. But it came back again. It always comes back. If killing the Night King was the only way to stop it and he was killed before, then how did he come back again for this time?
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to claym711 • 3:16p, 4/30/19
AG
claym711 said:
So half the entire show was built up around winter is coming and NK's army, and they're wiped out in an episode that is a combo of LOTR, Top Gun, and Jurassic Park - even down to the kitchen scene.

Bran literally does nothing. Takes a nap or something.

Every important character except Jorah is saved at the last possible second throughout the episode.

Nothing original or surprising.

This show has just become big budget pop culture. It's still entertaining, but neither the plot, writing, or acting are special.


This was posted yesterday, but if you didn't see it:

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