****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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chipotle
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wangus12 said:

Quote:

5. jon leaving sam to die because, "meh, he's almost died a bunch today already, he'll be ok"
Jon has to catch the NK before he kills everyone. There's no time to save Sam and he knows it by the look on his face.

I believe the issue had was with Sam's multiple scrapes with death. Despite all this he lives. This is crazy.
FightinTexasAg15
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AG
I get why people are upset with the episode and they have some valid complaint. I get that building the white walkers to finish it like this could be a let down however Game of Thrones from the start has been a story of people, politics and "conflicts of the human heart" as GRRM has put it with elements of fantasy and grandeur thrown in.

The white walkers were created by the children with one purpose, to kill man. There really was no way to finish this episode with anything other than finishing the Night King. If the good guys lose or have to withdraw, they're pretty much done for.

At the end of the day though, Cersei and what comes after was always going to be the end game. GRRM has mentioned that one thing he didn't like about LOTR was knowing what happened after all the fantasy was finished. After the big battles, there are still things to get done and choices to be made. We still have to find out what the Jon/Dany fallout is, how/if Cersei is overthrown, will the wheel truly be broken?

The white walkers and the dead were a vehicle to get everyone that is not Cersei and her goons on the same side for one final battle for the kingdom, and then the fallout and choices that are made after. I think there are still going to be some twists and epic moments, possibly even after if/when Cersei is defeated.

The main heart of the show is human vs human interaction.

That's not to say there aren't valid criticisms of this episode. But that's my opinion. I want to wait and see how the whole thing concludes before judging too harshly on a piece of the final story.
wannaggie
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HummingbirdSaltalamacchia said:

Do you think Ned would have tried to put AeJon on the throne after Robert was killed, had LF not betrayed him? I'm curious what his plan was before everything went to **** and he lost his head. Would he have considered AeJon his trump card so to speak?
No. That would have been a good ploy if pursued correctly, but the Starks are country bumpkins with no finesse for playing The Game. They are so busy protecting the Good Name of House Stark, that one by one they follow their honorable identities into the sharp end of someone else's weapon. Jon survives because he isn't a real Stark. Arya thrives because of the most important lesson she learns -- "A girl is not Arya Stark. A girl has no name".
Icecream_Ag
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S
Quote:

I HATE what they did to Sam this episode. His entire character arc was from that of a sniveling, whimpering, coward to someone who would face a gang of rapers, monsters, or even incurable disease to save someone. He was never going to be a warrior, but he proved himself a HERO already. Where was that Sam?! The one we saw cowering constantly was not the Sam the show had been building the past 7 years. That was an inexcusable regression.


Sams biggest characteristic is doing what he has to do.

He's admittedly a coward and horrible fighter, but he still stood there and shook like a leaf while randomly stabbing things like a man.
JABQ04
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AG
I'm just curious now where the good guys get the numbers to take on Cersei. Either the GC turns on Cersei or any houses that are still alive to be loyal to the Lannister's turn on her because they see she's a petty C-you-next-Tuesday and would rather sit on a sword chair then protect the living.
MW03
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AG
I think Bran's comment to Theon also goes for everyone, everywhere. He's a true stoic. Theon was where he was supposed to be because of the things he had done. That goes for the rest of the cast. I know we wanted to see Jon kill the Night King, but I enjoyed Arya getting that moment. It was payoff for her character. Regardless, it doesn't mean Jon's arc was pointless. Without Jon being reborn, there;s no army at Winterfell.
4the_Record
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Quote:

Right. The best critique of the overall plan I've read is Champ's. A better strategy would seem to have been to keep everyone inside Winterfell and kill as many wights in the field with catapults, archers, burning trenches, and dragon fire. Battling the dead outside the walls just gave the NK the ability to replenish his army from the North's dead. But then again, the point was to lure the NK out and kill him specifically. A siege doesn't accomplish that.

I agree to a point.
I accept that they had reasons not to bottle up the troops in the castle as they were trying to pull NK into a trap.
I accept that their cavalry had limitations...

Then send them to the south, they offer no value other than to die uselessly and increase the concern of the troops watching/listening to them do so.
JABQ04
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AG
chipotle said:

wangus12 said:

Quote:

5. jon leaving sam to die because, "meh, he's almost died a bunch today already, he'll be ok"
Jon has to catch the NK before he kills everyone. There's no time to save Sam and he knows it by the look on his face.

I believe the issue had was with Sam's multiple scrapes with death. Despite all this he lives. This is crazy.


I still can't believe Sam wasn't killed.
Fenrir
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They have 2 dragons. I'm not sure an army is even necessary.

What would an army accomplish that 2 dragons would be incapable of doing? Seems to me the biggest threat is cersei trying to burn it all to the ground which is just as likely in either scenario.
MW03
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AG
Did the freefolk fight last night? That might be where Tormund comes in handy surviving.
M.C. Swag
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Fenrir said:

They have 2 dragons. I'm not sure an army is even necessary.

What would an army accomplish that 2 dragons would be incapable of doing? Seems to me the biggest threat is cersei trying to burn it all to the ground which is just as likely in either scenario.
The dragons aren't even necessary. Deus Ex Arya can literally face steal her way into Cersei's bedroom and have all this wrapped up within a weekend.
gigemJTH12
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AG
But what if Cersei keeps her troops inside the city.

Dang has already said she wouldn't, and actually turned down the chance to just go burn up Kings landing and be "Queen of the Ashes".

So unless the Golden company is outside the city, the dragons won't do much
TPS_Report
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AG
My gripes:

Too many main characters survived. Greyworm, Sam, Jaime, Brienne, Davos, at least should be dead.
Too many scenes where someone seemed doomed only to be rescued or just show up elsewhere (Dondarrion, Arya, Jaime, Brienne, Dany, etc).
Horrible battle plan. Charge into the night? Really? Keep your dragons back? Really? Put people in crypts?
Wights were fast unless the script needed them to be slow.
Jon, Dany, and NK able to stay mounted on dragons during aerial combat.


My likes:

Great battle sequence.

aTmAg
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AG
Fenrir said:

They have 2 dragons. I'm not sure an army is even necessary.

What would an army accomplish that 2 dragons would be incapable of doing? Seems to me the biggest threat is cersei trying to burn it all to the ground which is just as likely in either scenario.
They are going to have a lot of those big spear SAM sites. The dragons are going to be in a lot of danger this time around.
Fenrir
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An army nor dragons will keep cersei from lighting KL on fire and killing everyone. That's the issue that needs to be resolved. Arya is the obvious answer.
RabbleRouser07
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AG
My 3 things from reading the last few pages.

1. The Dothraki rode at the dead because they are better fighters in the open. Robert Barathian said "Only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field"

2. The Night King story couldn't have a final explanation because this story will be the main storyline in the prequel.

3. Arya had to kill the NK because Jon was busy with the ice dragon. Which is where his character has pivoted this season. Jon will finally have to stand up to the Mother of Dragons and I think that is the "Song of Ice and Fire" (or at least Jon Snow and Dragon's fire).
WelchAg
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AG
Its weird, but I wanted someone really meaningful to die. I wanted to experience that crushing gut punch. Those raw emotions have made this show so successful.
DSAg44
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AG
why didn't they use wild fire?
C@LAg
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WelchAg said:

Its weird, but I wanted someone really meaningful to die. I wanted to experience that crushing gut punch. Those raw emotions have made this show so successful.
instead we get Lady Plot Armor Mormont. Able to survive getting slammed hard by a giant as well as squeezed. All in the name of fan service to give her a water-cooler moment out.
C@LAg
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DSAg44 said:

why didn't they use wild fire?
don't have any. not meisters or whatever with the skill in the north.
tk for tu juan
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DSAg44 said:

why didn't they use wild fire?

Because they were in Winterfell and not Kings Landing
Icecream_Ag
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DSAg44 said:

why didn't they use wild fire?
I don't know that they knew how to make it, nor did they have time.
wannaggie
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The Dog Lord said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Ghost sighting!

Probably just a reminder that he exists so they can ****ing kill him next week.
Didn't even show up in the battle at all. Shown in the pregame tailgate, then ignored.
aTmAg
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AG
C@LAg said:

WelchAg said:

Its weird, but I wanted someone really meaningful to die. I wanted to experience that crushing gut punch. Those raw emotions have made this show so successful.
instead we get Lady Plot Armor Mormont. Able to survive getting slammed hard by a giant as well as squeezed. All in the name of fan service to give her a water-cooler moment out.
Yeah, I don't get the fawning over her. She is the most unrealistic character on the show. In reality, she'd be told to shut up and get to the crypts with the rest of the children.
Belton Ag
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AG
I could be wrong but I have my doubts that they're going to have Arya kill Cersei and essentially repeat her act with the Night King. I think there will be something or someone that stops Arya, perhaps resulting in Arya's death.

If Arya kills Cersei it will have been laid out by GRRM and I don't see it.
DSAg44
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AG
Icecream_Ag said:

DSAg44 said:

why didn't they use wild fire?
I don't know that they knew how to make it, nor did they have time.
they should have forced cersei to turn it over. that's on tyrion and jamie.
Boiling Denim
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FightinTexasAg15 said:

Game of Thrones from the start has been a story of people, politics and "conflicts of the human heart"


The Prologue of the first book is literally about the wights/Others etc. so no not really it hasn't been about politics from the start
Icecream_Ag
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S
C@LAg said:

WelchAg said:

Its weird, but I wanted someone really meaningful to die. I wanted to experience that crushing gut punch. Those raw emotions have made this show so successful.
instead we get Lady Plot Armor Mormont. Able to survive getting slammed hard by a giant as well as squeezed. All in the name of fan service to give her a water-cooler moment out.
your absolute disdain for an 11year old is scary
aTmAg
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AG
Belton Ag said:

I could be wrong but I have my doubts that they're going to have Arya kill Cersei and essentially repeat her act with the Night King. I think there will be something or someone that stops Arya, perhaps resulting in Arya's death.

If Arya kills Cersei it will have been laid out by GRRM and I don't see it.
Yeah, you can't go back to that well too often. They suprised us this time. Doing it again would be eye rolling.

If I had to bet, the mountain kills Arya, the Hound kills the Mountain, and either Jamie or Tyrion kills Cersie.
C@LAg
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Icecream_Ag said:

C@LAg said:

WelchAg said:

Its weird, but I wanted someone really meaningful to die. I wanted to experience that crushing gut punch. Those raw emotions have made this show so successful.
instead we get Lady Plot Armor Mormont. Able to survive getting slammed hard by a giant as well as squeezed. All in the name of fan service to give her a water-cooler moment out.
your absolute disdain for an 11year old is scary
D&D literally said this on their after the show segment.
Icecream_Ag
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Belton Ag said:

I could be wrong but I have my doubts that they're going to have Arya kill Cersei and essentially repeat her act with the Night King. I think there will be something or someone that stops Arya, perhaps resulting in Arya's death.

If Arya kills Cersei it will have been laid out by GRRM and I don't see it.
I think we get another running scene like when the waif was after her, probably running from the mountain, while Jon fights euron and Jamie kills cersie
mntamu23
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BowSowy said:

Vernada said:

Nagler said:

Bunch of people trying to prove how hip they are by not liking the episode, we get it, you couldn't done better. Move on. Your constant *****ing is getting old.
You know - it's completely possible to dislike this episode AND still think GoT is a terrific series.

Count me in that camp.

Sorry - I was disappointed in a lot of things about this episode. Like I said before, it doesn't hold a candle to some of the great episodes in this series.
The thing that annoys me are how the contrarians almost combative about it. Look at that cock goblin above you being a dick to others because they liked the episode.

Then stop obsessing over belittling the people who you think are obsessing over belittling the episode's deficiencies. It's incredibly ironic and doesn't make you any better. If you really want to be that holier-than-thou beacon of positivity because you're above criticizing a TV episode like the one true fanboy you are, than actually be above it.
Urban Ag
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AG
DSAg44 said:

why didn't they use wild fire?
cause they don't have any

the pyromancers were an old guild that the Targs came up with because they were all a bunch of pyro firebugs. They remain in Kings Landing.
canadiaggie
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AG
Good lord this thread has become unreadable. Lots of armchair generals and veterans of zombie movies insisting they'd stop the WW dead in their tracks, zero casualties, and Jon fanboys (of which I am one, truthfully) butthurt that someone else hit the buzzer beater 3.
c-jags
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Quote:

Jon was out there thwarting the Night King as often as he could and actually died trying to do so. Melisandre made it abundantly clear that Jon Snow, and Beric, and herself were all brought back for a reason. Beric fulfilled his purpose of saving Arya and died. Melisandre fulfilled her purpose of giving Arya a pep talk and died. What is Jon Snow's purpose? Why is he still alive?
i think were inflecting what we wanted from Jon. what we want may not have been his purpose

Jon's purpose was to unite the armies. to the wildlings he's the LCotheNW that risked (and lost) his life to save theirs. to the North, he's their next rightful king who lead the charge against the Boltons. to Dany he was the honest guy from the North that everybody from Westoros vouched for in his honesty and intentions and pointed her to a greater threat than Cersei.

Every single time he's been put in charge it's done reluctantly and he claims he does't want it. Not to draw bad comparisons, but he's been the George Bailey of the story. He just does the right and noble thing every opportunity he can. It doesn't always pan out, but he's the moral compass. We want him to get the kill because in a very muddled plot with grey areas of morality, he's been the lone bright true north. i'd wager that if you asked the character who got the kill, he was just happy it was done, regardless of who ended it.

the whole show is approaching Lost level of fan's division because a lot of us want different things than the writers are going to give us.
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