****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Fenrir
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Pendragon12 said:

The Wizard of Oz said:

For me, the episode was visually spectacular, but I feel robbed on the plot line.

I figured that the Night King would have had more depth to him. More agency. I hate that the viewers are educated on the NK's intentions exclusively by one line from Bran in the War Council scene.

I really thought there was more to the NK than Bran's "I'm a living encyclopedia, so he wants to kill me, and then kill everyone else".

And then, Deus Ex Arya inexplicably uses one of the Godswood's invisible Tarzan vines to swing up on the NK? Come on...
In previous seasons it showed the Children creating the Night King to destroy man. The best way to do that is to destroy the 3ER and then wipe out all men.

If you re-watch the NK death, you can see Bran shift his eyes away from the Night King as if looking at or for something, and the Night King with the curious head tilt. Arya completely disappeared for about 20-30 mins. She was likely hiding and has a history of sneaking up on people. The dead don't seem to be very observant so I don't find this too far fetched.

First viewing I was thinking wtf. Second, I think she either came from a tree above and was able to get the drop on the WWs behind, or used her Faceless Man skills somehow to hide among the dead/WWs.


Maybe I missed something but why is it important to kill 3ER before destroying the world of men? I know that was stated to be but I don't feel it was sufficiently explained and it's not something that just makes sense on its own IMO.
KidDoc
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Ok to me it was clear that Arya was hiding in the Godswood tree waiting for the NK. I haven't read the books in years but I recall them mentioning that specifically Brann and Arya would play in the trees of the Godswood and could get from the outer wall to the center through the treetops. If anyone has read it more recently feel free to correct me if I am not recalling it accurately.

I liked Arya being the killshot. Her storyline in the books seemed to wander and drag on forever but now her entire story arc and essentially loosing her humanity to become a master assassin comes to fruition. Even better that it was with that specific dagger.

My only complaint was the jarring transitions for specific characters that was already mentioned where it seemed like some scenes were cut. The worst was Beric being swarmed then suddenly he is dying in a quiet room with Mel, Hound, Arya? Wut?

I still think the primary antagonist is Dany. She continues to allow her emotions to rule her and she is supremely power hungry.
jtstanley4621
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So here are a few more thoughts:
1.) Pretty much all the Dothraki have got to be dead right? They took the army of the dead head on. Probably got slaughtered.

2.) I think they did a great job illustrating how most hand to hand combat in a battle like that boils down to luck, regardless of your skill as a fighter. Basically everyone got swarmed at one time or another, and they got saved just because someone else could randomly come help. I never thought that it was a convenient bailout, it felt more like "holy **** they were lucky as hell there."

3.) I actually thought that Jon rising up to fight the dragon made sense. Same sort of thing as Theon going after the night king. You're dead either way, may as well take a shot and attack to try and survive. Jon just got lucky as hell that Arya made it there.

4.) Luck was a big theme. That's why I feel okay that the Night King is gone. They survived that by the absolute skin of their teeth. Death was there, all was lost. It wasn't some sort of "I'm more powerful than you" fantasy world-type climax, it was that Arya BARELY got there in time.

5.) I'm still very confused as to why Melisandre seemed to be coming from the north down to Winterfell. Also the whole valar morghulis interaction with Grey Worm. Was that just sort of a greeting in high valayrian, or was that some sort of head nod to the faceless god? Also Melisandre saying what Syrio said to Arya about the god of death.
Cromagnum
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

Bunk Moreland said:

For the Arya kill...how much better would it have been for Arya to have taken Bran's face, and when the NK gets close to him Bran(Arya) gets out of the chair and stabs him? Then real Bran could have been his raven sitting and watching on a tree branch with someone having hid him nearby.

That works - real Bran inside the hollowed out tree maybe. lol. But the raven in the tree so the NK senses Bran but it's really Arya in the chair.

That would have worked pretty well. Her rising would have been a WTF moment. Then the reveal after the kill.

I like it actually.


That's what I thought was going to happen, but then it didn't.
Agnzona
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The Dog Lord said:

bangobango said:

Alt shift x is adamant that the NK is coming back. I think he is in denial, but I hope he is right. Fight with Cersi is going to feel so stupid, especially if they march down to face her in Kingslanding.
The NK is done, but it would be hilarious if the "Bran is the NK" theory came true at the very end. The fighting on here would be glorious.


I think at this point I "Hat" Bran and what him to die quickly.
"It's what I do...I drink and I know things."
M.C. Swag
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gigemJTH12 said:

M.C. Swag said:

gigemJTH12 said:

I'm torn, I get that the NK and White Walkers are the "final boss" in the sense of the toughest challenge.

But they also were a very very very small portion of the actual screen time this show had.

7 seasons of the best show of all time and they had maybe an hour and a half total screen time?? I'm sure it's really close to that. Other than Hardhome they were only showed in very small spurts.

So with that being said, the battle against them not being the final battle, and it being against the shows most frequent villlain, Cersei, also makes a whole lot of sense.

The shark in Jaws had a very small portion of screen time but it was the primary antagonist. Keeping your main villain in the shadow is one of the best mechanisms for building tension, intrigue, and suspense. "Screen time = importance" is a rationalization doesn't sit well with me at all.
The citizens of Jaws also didn't spend 75 episodes feuding with a neighboring town with the most powerful and nasty ***** in the world leading the way. Bad comparison.
lol its a thematic comparison. Not a replica. Meant to convey how a big bad doesn't have to be in the forefront of a movie/show to be the big bad.
DannyDuberstein
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I don't have any complaints about Arya being the kill shot or how she did it. She's a silent assassin and it's clear she dropped from the tree tops.
KidDoc
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Fenrir said:

Pendragon12 said:

The Wizard of Oz said:

For me, the episode was visually spectacular, but I feel robbed on the plot line.

I figured that the Night King would have had more depth to him. More agency. I hate that the viewers are educated on the NK's intentions exclusively by one line from Bran in the War Council scene.

I really thought there was more to the NK than Bran's "I'm a living encyclopedia, so he wants to kill me, and then kill everyone else".

And then, Deus Ex Arya inexplicably uses one of the Godswood's invisible Tarzan vines to swing up on the NK? Come on...
In previous seasons it showed the Children creating the Night King to destroy man. The best way to do that is to destroy the 3ER and then wipe out all men.

If you re-watch the NK death, you can see Bran shift his eyes away from the Night King as if looking at or for something, and the Night King with the curious head tilt. Arya completely disappeared for about 20-30 mins. She was likely hiding and has a history of sneaking up on people. The dead don't seem to be very observant so I don't find this too far fetched.

First viewing I was thinking wtf. Second, I think she either came from a tree above and was able to get the drop on the WWs behind, or used her Faceless Man skills somehow to hide among the dead/WWs.


Maybe I missed something but why is it important to kill 3ER before destroying the world of men? I know that was stated to be but I don't feel it was sufficiently explained and it's not something that just makes sense on its own IMO.
Nobody really knows except Martin I guess. I think of the NK as a weapon of mass destruction created by the children when the first men were taking everything over. He is a tool and is driven to kill men and that is it. He wanted to kill his creator which is the eternal sentience of the three eyed raven which is about all that is left of the children of the forest in the current age.
MaroonStain
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At this point here are my 'Known Facts':

- NK, WW, Others, undead, etc are gone.
- CotF are gone.
- Nights Watch is done.
- Wildings are no more.

CotF created NK to defend against humans. NK had agreement with humans to stay above The Wall. Night's Watch defended The Wall. Wildlings broke the pact. NK marched south.

This entire saga is complete.

Now back to actual 'Game of Thrones'....

Three episodes remain.
Belton Ag
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Fenrir said:

Pendragon12 said:

The Wizard of Oz said:

For me, the episode was visually spectacular, but I feel robbed on the plot line.

I figured that the Night King would have had more depth to him. More agency. I hate that the viewers are educated on the NK's intentions exclusively by one line from Bran in the War Council scene.

I really thought there was more to the NK than Bran's "I'm a living encyclopedia, so he wants to kill me, and then kill everyone else".

And then, Deus Ex Arya inexplicably uses one of the Godswood's invisible Tarzan vines to swing up on the NK? Come on...
In previous seasons it showed the Children creating the Night King to destroy man. The best way to do that is to destroy the 3ER and then wipe out all men.

If you re-watch the NK death, you can see Bran shift his eyes away from the Night King as if looking at or for something, and the Night King with the curious head tilt. Arya completely disappeared for about 20-30 mins. She was likely hiding and has a history of sneaking up on people. The dead don't seem to be very observant so I don't find this too far fetched.

First viewing I was thinking wtf. Second, I think she either came from a tree above and was able to get the drop on the WWs behind, or used her Faceless Man skills somehow to hide among the dead/WWs.


Maybe I missed something but why is it important to kill 3ER before destroying the world of men? I know that was stated to be but I don't feel it was sufficiently explained and it's not something that just makes sense on its own IMO.
The 3ER is the repository for all human knowledge. Destroying him would erase humans from existence completely even in memory (complete darkness).
DannyDuberstein
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The 3eyed raven is also the story of man. NK kills man and kills all memory of him via killing the 3er. We know how and why he was created. We know what his mission and motivation was. Don't know what else there is to tell.
bangobango
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gigemJTH12 said:

Do I have to be a patreon memeber? It won't let me watch it now.

I'm very curious tho, bc if the Night King comes back, then he is really indestructible and the whole thing is pretty pointless.




Try that. I'm not a patreon subscriber but I do have YouTube tv. Don't know if that matters or not.
jeffdjohnson
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The episode was amazing television. My only complaint is that it wasn't part of a series finale. I'm not sure how the last 3 episodes don't end up feeling a little flat.
gigemJTH12
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No I get it. I'm just saying that in that movie the shark is the only villain. So comparing the shark to the Night King doesn't work bc my entire point was that I'm okay Cersei is the final challenge bc she was the entire show.

The night king was hardly ever around.
Champ Bailey
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Fenrir said:

Pendragon12 said:

The Wizard of Oz said:

For me, the episode was visually spectacular, but I feel robbed on the plot line.

I figured that the Night King would have had more depth to him. More agency. I hate that the viewers are educated on the NK's intentions exclusively by one line from Bran in the War Council scene.

I really thought there was more to the NK than Bran's "I'm a living encyclopedia, so he wants to kill me, and then kill everyone else".

And then, Deus Ex Arya inexplicably uses one of the Godswood's invisible Tarzan vines to swing up on the NK? Come on...
In previous seasons it showed the Children creating the Night King to destroy man. The best way to do that is to destroy the 3ER and then wipe out all men.

If you re-watch the NK death, you can see Bran shift his eyes away from the Night King as if looking at or for something, and the Night King with the curious head tilt. Arya completely disappeared for about 20-30 mins. She was likely hiding and has a history of sneaking up on people. The dead don't seem to be very observant so I don't find this too far fetched.

First viewing I was thinking wtf. Second, I think she either came from a tree above and was able to get the drop on the WWs behind, or used her Faceless Man skills somehow to hide among the dead/WWs.


Maybe I missed something but why is it important to kill 3ER before destroying the world of men? I know that was stated to be but I don't feel it was sufficiently explained and it's not something that just makes sense on its own IMO.


The main reason in the show is the NK is trying to erase humanity. Since Bran remembers everything, he is the logical place to start.

On top of that though, you have to remember that the original 3ER has basically been influencing events since the last time the WW came down 1,000 years ago in order to protect humanity from them. We have seen that Bran can influence the past, and the NK seems to know exactly what he is, so I think he knows Bran can alter basically anything he wants. It makes sense for him to consider Bran the biggest obstacle to complete domination.

And Bran proved that, by arming Arya with the dagger that kills him.
Zombie Jon Snow
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jtstanley4621 said:

So here are a few more thoughts:
1.) Pretty much all the Dothraki have got to be dead right? They took the army of the dead head on. Probably got slaughtered.

2.) I think they did a great job illustrating how most hand to hand combat in a battle like that boils down to luck, regardless of your skill as a fighter. Basically everyone got swarmed at one time or another, and they got saved just because someone else could randomly come help. I never thought that it was a convenient bailout, it felt more like "holy **** they were lucky as hell there."

3.) I actually thought that Jon rising up to fight the dragon made sense. Same sort of thing as Theon going after the night king. You're dead either way, may as well take a shot and attack to try and survive. Jon just got lucky as hell that Arya made it there.

4.) Luck was a big theme. That's why I feel okay that the Night King is gone. They survived that by the absolute skin of their teeth. Death was there, all was lost. It wasn't some sort of "I'm more powerful than you" fantasy world-type climax, it was that Arya BARELY got there in time.

5.) I'm still very confused as to why Melisandre seemed to be coming from the north down to Winterfell. Also the whole valar morghulis interaction with Grey Worm. Was that just sort of a greeting in high valayrian, or was that some sort of head nod to the faceless god? Also Melisandre saying what Syrio said to Arya about the god of death.

1. yes
2. ok
3. that's Jon
4. agreed
5. She might not have come from the north. We don't know. there was a large gap between armies then she could have rode up from the south between them them turned to make a dramatic entrance into the middle of the forces there. Yes just a greeting to a fellow Essos dude. Melisandre was awesome - first lighting up spears and the trench, then prophesying her own death that night, then the blue eyes comment to Arya followed by what do we say to the god of death - not today. and then her actual death.
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, I don't have any issue with Cersei being the last battle. She was the enemy from the beginning of this story and throughout, when we didn't know the NK even existed.
Fenrir
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Belton Ag said:

Fenrir said:

Pendragon12 said:

The Wizard of Oz said:

For me, the episode was visually spectacular, but I feel robbed on the plot line.

I figured that the Night King would have had more depth to him. More agency. I hate that the viewers are educated on the NK's intentions exclusively by one line from Bran in the War Council scene.

I really thought there was more to the NK than Bran's "I'm a living encyclopedia, so he wants to kill me, and then kill everyone else".

And then, Deus Ex Arya inexplicably uses one of the Godswood's invisible Tarzan vines to swing up on the NK? Come on...
In previous seasons it showed the Children creating the Night King to destroy man. The best way to do that is to destroy the 3ER and then wipe out all men.

If you re-watch the NK death, you can see Bran shift his eyes away from the Night King as if looking at or for something, and the Night King with the curious head tilt. Arya completely disappeared for about 20-30 mins. She was likely hiding and has a history of sneaking up on people. The dead don't seem to be very observant so I don't find this too far fetched.

First viewing I was thinking wtf. Second, I think she either came from a tree above and was able to get the drop on the WWs behind, or used her Faceless Man skills somehow to hide among the dead/WWs.


Maybe I missed something but why is it important to kill 3ER before destroying the world of men? I know that was stated to be but I don't feel it was sufficiently explained and it's not something that just makes sense on its own IMO.
The 3ER is the repository for all human knowledge. Destroying him would erase humans from existence completely even in memory (complete darkness).

I saw that part. That reasoning just seems weak to me. If 3ER was literally all that was left of humanity, I don't see why it matters that much.

It feels like NK was stuck between being a force of nature and some revenge story. If he is a force of nature, imo it shouldn't matter if 3ER lives much less if NK is the one to deal the death blow. If it's a revenge story NK didn't get near enough characterization imo.
aTmAg
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

Nope - faceless have used faces of the living too.... it was shown in the temple with Jaqen using Arya's face actually.
I took that to be some sort of jedi teacher mind trick similar to Luke's face replacing Darth Vader in Empire Strikes Back. That is the only time (in either franchise) that such a thing has happened. If I also remember correctly, it was one of 100 faces that she peeled off the same guy. I assume that can't happen in normal circumstances either. It would be like wearing 20 sweaters and nobody noticing.

To me it would be lame if Arya could literally be anybody whenever she wanted. If they went there, then it would make the rest of the show anticlimactic. Since she could become Qyburn, Bronn, Euron, or any one of a bunch of people and easily kill Cersie. If they had a war instead, everybody would be wondering, "why the hell didn't Arya just make a new face and kill her by herself?" It would be a huge plot hole that would be impossible to ignore.
ChipFTAC01
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Don't think that was wunwun. Wouldn't they have burned his body after BOB?
AustinAg2K
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One thing that wasn't clear and I haven't seen talked about. Did Dany burn Jon with Dragon fire when she saved him from the dead after the Night King raised them? I didn't think it was really clear. I felt like she did, but I would have expected the writers to make a bigger deal out of that.
Zombie Jon Snow
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maybe so... good points.
DannyDuberstein
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I saw it as force of nature (or force of children of the forest at least). They created him to stop man. That's what he was trying to do - in every way. Kill man and memory of man.
Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag
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AustinAg2K said:

One thing that wasn't clear and I haven't seen talked about. Did Dany burn Jon with Dragon fire when she saved him from the dead after the Night King raised them? I didn't think it was really clear. I felt like she did, but I would have expected the writers to make a bigger deal out of that.
No, and Jon is not fireproof. We already know this from Season 1
Champ Bailey
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ChipFTAC01 said:

Don't think that was wunwun. Wouldn't they have burned his body after BOB?


Yeah. I think they had giants beforehand, but I know they picked up a few at Hardhome as well.
Zombie Jon Snow
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AustinAg2K said:

One thing that wasn't clear and I haven't seen talked about. Did Dany burn Jon with Dragon fire when she saved him from the dead after the Night King raised them? I didn't think it was really clear. I felt like she did, but I would have expected the writers to make a bigger deal out of that.

No. I was watching that closely. The fire went all around him but never seemed to touch him. Which was a little unrealistic - some very precise dragon fire breathing to kill everything around him (from one side of them and in close quarters). There was literally a circle of fire around him at the end.
tv1113
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To me that kind of negates Jon story arc and makes the night king feel more like filler than anything.

Some people prefer the high fantasy ending and some people prefer the Cersei mid-evil political warfare ending.

Both sides could have ended up being disappointed, but that is kind of the problem when Martin almost wrote two different stories within the same book and combined them. One story was going to end up feeling meaningless at the end and it has some people upset.
Fenrir
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I don't believe any Giants were raised at WF so I would say it's safe to conclude that wunwun was not a wight during this fight.
Vernada
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Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

I've now watched the episode twice, I figured out my biggest issue with it. I'll preface this with stating that I really enjoyed the episode. I have no issues with the glaring strategical issues on the side of the living; however, I cannot get past the continuous continuity errors.

They are just obnoxiously evident on repeat viewing. Characters who were previously surrounded on all sides, suddenly surrounded on one side, or not surrounded at all anymore. Greyjoys being immediately overrun, then suddenly not. The continuity errors were just nonstop every 2-3 minutes for about a 30-40 minute stretch. If you don't believe me, have a rewatch. These are issues that could easily have been fixed, it's really just sloppy filmmaking.
If only they would have made the episode darker - then you wouldn't have noticed as much.
Pendragon12
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May not have to be before. I think just as long as he's killed within a reasonable amount of time before/after killing all men. Basically, once you've eradicated the humans, eradicate the memory of the world.
Ranger #007
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On the dusting versus not dusting wights thing, I was assuming the ones getting dusted were the ones that were super decomposed like the giant and when they get killed the magic that was holding them together is gone so they just fall apart. In the shot after the giant was killed you could still see the bones so it's not like they disappeared completely.
aTmAg
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Maybe it's just me, but I think some of the best scenes are when dragons are "carpet bombing" with their fire. Like when they showed Sansa and Arya amazement first saw the power of the dragons. I wish one of them said something like, "I'm glad those are on our side" or something.

I've been looking for somebody to screen capture that scene, but no such luck. I guess most people don't find that sort of thing impressive.
MuckRaker96
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For the morning crowd, here's the official standings after 3 episodes for the Tex Ags Game of Game of Thrones

AgSquirrel97 40+21 = 61
Urban Ag 40+18 = 58
Spreadsheet Ag 40 + 18 = 58
Geoff H. 40 + 15 = 55
Texas Aggie '99 40 + 12 = 52
Walton Loads 30 + 21 = 51
oldag00 30 + 21 = 51
TxRunner97 30 + 18 = 48
Derek J. 30 + 18 = 48
Brian Earl Spilner 30 + 18 = 48
Rex Racer 20 + 21 = 41
Saint Arnold 20 + 18 = 38
wangus12 20 + 18 = 38

Andy W. 20 + 15 = 35
ChipolteMonger 30 + 15 = 35

Myles Moore 20 + 12 = 32



CoachRTM 10 + 18 = 28


M.C. Swag
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gigemJTH12 said:

No I get it. I'm just saying that in that movie the shark is the only villain. So comparing the shark to the Night King doesn't work bc my entire point was that I'm okay Cersei is the final challenge bc she was the entire show.

The night king was hardly ever around.
yes, i understand. Cersei had more screen time. That is a basic fact.

But dude, they've been building the WWs since the beginning. The 'winter is coming' motif is a direct link to them (winter = death = WW). The prince who was promised prophecy (which was the entire plot arc for Dany and Jon) was a consistent theme as well. The PWIW isn't some prophesized hero sent to overthrow 1 crazy queen. They were meant to FIGHT BACK THE NIGHT.

The NK was an immortal who could raise the dead, control the dead, had a zombie dragon, and to some varying degree, control the weather. That man was just defeated. How can we as an audience feel any sort of suspense about the conflict with Cersei in comparison to what they just defeated? I mean hell, Arya could literally sneak through a pack of zombies to stab the NK...she could assassinate Cersei in her sleep. Boom. game over.

My point is; the NK literally and thematically was the big bad. He was ICE. He was WINTER. He was DEATH. They just beat that. Now I'm supposed to buy that Cersei is the last challenge? She's the reason Jon was resurrected amongst smoke and ash?

El Chupacabra
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Orlando Ayala Cant Read said:

I'm still pretty new to GoT. Haven't read the books, and binge watched to catch up to this season. I don't know near as much about it as a lot of you but what I DO know is that Game of Thrones Snobbery is very real and very annoying. I'm in groups where people are trashing "casual fans" or "simpletons" for enjoying last nights episode and its pretty obnoxious to say the least.
There's some people who think every episode should be 6 hours long detailing every second of every character's 'arc' from start to finish.

And it still wouldn't matter, because if Character X, whose life has been detailed for 100 hours of screen time, does something that they thought Character Y, whose life has been detailed for 100 hours of screen time, should have done, then it's a bit** fest and anyone who enjoyed it isn't a true GOT fan.

Just watch and enjoy.
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