****** Game of Thrones - Season 8 ******

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Zombie Jon Snow
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Quote:

HBO publicly confirmed the runtimes for each Season 8 episode in March. Sunday night's "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms" was the last "normal" Game of Thrones episode at 58 minutes long. Episode 3, however, will run for 1 hour and 22 minutes that's four minutes longer than Season 8, Episode 4 and two minutes longer than Episodes 5 and 6.

The longest Game of Thrones episode of all time will be 82 minutes long and feature the longest continuous battle sequence in cinematic history, longer even than the 40-minute Battle of Helm's Deep in Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers.
So let's assume that 50 minutes of the episode is pure battle. (Which I think is generous.)

That still leaves over a half hour of runtime. A LOT can happen this episode. What else do we think will happen? Will we get more "aftermath" than we're expecting? Will we actually see a part of the retreat to wherever they are going next?

IMO there's an entire "Phase 2" to this episode that hasn't really been discussed or shown in trailers.

50 minutes is not generous actually, i think it will be more than that... they have stated it will be the longest battle sequence on film with the one they compare it to being Helms Deep from LOTR which was 40 minutes. I don't think they would compare to that if it was just a bit longer - and the director even said that wasn't really close to the length of this it was just the longest he found.

So 50 minutes is a minimum to me - but I do believe it will be somewhat less than the full 82 minutes so somewhere between 60-65 most likely maybe. leaving 17-22 minutes for other stuff. It could go 70 minutes who knows.

As he said he has about 20 characters perspectives to show during this battle. 20 characters with just 3 minutes each is 60 minutes. Surely some have more than that, other sless maybe. And different parts of the battle and different sites will have different things going on so different kinds of fighting or other non combat things. Presumably simultaneously at times too. It's gonna be nuts.

Director:
Quote:


"It feels like the only way to really approach it properly is take every sequence and ask yourself: 'Why would I care to keep watching?'" Sapchnick said. "One thing I found is the less action the less fighting you can have in a sequence, the better."

The other challenge with this final battle was deciding which story to focus on at which point. The other major battles of the series have all been centered around Jon Snow, but this one was much bigger than just one man.

"The [GoT battles] I've done previously were generally from Jon's perspective," Sapochnik says. "Here I've got 20-some cast members and everyone would like it to be their scene. That's complicated because I find the best battle sequences are when you have a strong point of view. I keep thinking: 'Whose story am I telling right now?'"

Belton Ag
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M.C. Swag said:

Episode IV said:

M.C. Swag said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Well the time between seasons is when Jamie ride to Winterfell. Bronn was definitely in KL this season. So technically in episode one they were a months travel apart from each other.

I know that's not a perfect science on the show, but Bronn showing up this week is kind of a stretch
Fun Fact: That scene with Bronn and Qyburn was actually filmed LAST season. They just didn't use it until this season.

As an aside, we've thrown 'travel time warp' to the wind with this show. It is what it is. There's not enough screen time left to allow for a 'natural journey length" of time to pass.
To be fair, Jaime left at the end of season 7; but the scene is S8E1 could have been just a day or two later... he could be right behind Jaime, or tailing him the whole time.
Yes, that's a good point. It bears reminding that the scenes, as they play to us, aren't necessarily sequential.
Do you think Bron shows up in Winterfell in time to fight in the battle?
Urban Ag
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MuckRaker96 said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Interesting take from the guy on Oysters podcast. Not Ross the other guy.

He said he thinks this whole Dany villain thing is a red herring and that she will be loved again by the viewers very soon. He said no way they spent 7 seasons having her free slaves, travel all this way, come help the north, just to be a hated *****. Bc right now I don't think anyone is that big of a fan of her. And most are kinda hoping she dies.

I kind of buy into this. Her downfall has been too hard and too fast. I can for sure see that being a plot diversion just to throw us off, and she redeems herself this week or next.
Dany's downfall is as long as the series
How about the time she made a business deal, then didn't actually pay and instead had her dragons burn everyone to a crisp? Sure, the slavers were jerks, but if they had backstabbed her and killed her instead, wouldn't you have cried foul?

If your brother was a huge a-hole, but then you saw your husband was about to kill him, wouldn't you say, ya know, he is family, does he deserve to die by having his face melted off? Can't we just banish him? Nope, I'll watch him burn and make a ha-ha about it.

The Tarlys fought with honor and as commanded on the side opposite Dany. She should have used them as political prisoners. Instead she burned their faces off and turned them into soot. Seems like there was another Targ who liked to burn people alive when they didn't agree with him.

You know she's not a classic villain, but she is a character with an objective that has never changed over time. Sitting on the Iron Throne by any means necessary. You get in her way, she removes you. She's done that since the day she smothered Khal Drogo's mentally dead handsome face and burned that witch alive. All we're seeing now is several really popular characters coming together at loggerheads. Jon wants to do the honorable thing (and get laid), Sansa wants to protect her family and the North, and Dany wants to rule (and get laid) -

Jon's birthright throws a huge monkey wrench in her plan. Although it's still just on the words of the law firm of Fat and Crazy. No way she gives up her right to the throne for love though. That's not who she is.
In defense of Dany...

The slavers in Astapor were absolutely terrible people and Kraznys talked sh** to her not knowing she speaks High Valyrian. The book goes further in to her disgust of slavery than the show does. Regardless, who cares of the slave masters got theirs for all the evil they inflicted on the innocent? They deserved to die.

In regards to Viserys, he abused the crap out of her since she was a child. He signed off on her forced marriage for his desires to retake Westeros, not hers. And he even told her the entire Dothraki khlasar could bang her for all he cared as long as he gets the Iron Throne. Not to mention he was generally a little beeotch to everyone. Oh and Drogo killed him, not Dany. And Dany wasn't in much of a position to do squat about it.

As for the Tarly's, they were given every opportunity to bend the knee. And Randyl was as inconsistent in his honor and loyalty as anyone else. He also threatened to kill his own son, Sam, if he didn't take the black, to negate any claims he may have on his estate. Plus Dany didn't torture them with fire ala the Mad King. They were dead in seconds. And Dickon (huh huh) only died to make some statement about family honor.

And......she has taken a major change of course from pursuing the Iron Throne. Her army and dragons would have completely rolled Kings Landing last season had she given the order. Instead she went north fully knowing she may die in the process.

I still thoroughly contend all of this is misdirection and although Dany will be conflicted with her struggle for power she will ultimately do the right thing in the end. And yes, if she survives the BoW, deposing Cersei is the right thing to do.

Lastly, she is so damn fine I don't care.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Urban Ag said:

MuckRaker96 said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Interesting take from the guy on Oysters podcast. Not Ross the other guy.

He said he thinks this whole Dany villain thing is a red herring and that she will be loved again by the viewers very soon. He said no way they spent 7 seasons having her free slaves, travel all this way, come help the north, just to be a hated *****. Bc right now I don't think anyone is that big of a fan of her. And most are kinda hoping she dies.

I kind of buy into this. Her downfall has been too hard and too fast. I can for sure see that being a plot diversion just to throw us off, and she redeems herself this week or next.
Dany's downfall is as long as the series
How about the time she made a business deal, then didn't actually pay and instead had her dragons burn everyone to a crisp? Sure, the slavers were jerks, but if they had backstabbed her and killed her instead, wouldn't you have cried foul?

If your brother was a huge a-hole, but then you saw your husband was about to kill him, wouldn't you say, ya know, he is family, does he deserve to die by having his face melted off? Can't we just banish him? Nope, I'll watch him burn and make a ha-ha about it.

The Tarlys fought with honor and as commanded on the side opposite Dany. She should have used them as political prisoners. Instead she burned their faces off and turned them into soot. Seems like there was another Targ who liked to burn people alive when they didn't agree with him.

You know she's not a classic villain, but she is a character with an objective that has never changed over time. Sitting on the Iron Throne by any means necessary. You get in her way, she removes you. She's done that since the day she smothered Khal Drogo's mentally dead handsome face and burned that witch alive. All we're seeing now is several really popular characters coming together at loggerheads. Jon wants to do the honorable thing (and get laid), Sansa wants to protect her family and the North, and Dany wants to rule (and get laid) -

Jon's birthright throws a huge monkey wrench in her plan. Although it's still just on the words of the law firm of Fat and Crazy. No way she gives up her right to the throne for love though. That's not who she is.
In defense of Dany...

The slavers in Astapor were absolutely terrible people and Kraznys talked sh** to her not knowing she speaks High Valyrian. The book goes further in to her disgust of slavery than the show does. Regardless, who cares of the slave masters got theirs for all the evil they inflicted on the innocent? They deserved to die.

In regards to Viserys, he abused the crap out of her since she was a child. He signed off on her forced marriage for his desires to retake Westeros, not hers. And he even told her the entire Dothraki khlasar could bang her for all he cared as long as he gets the Iron Throne. Not to mention he was generally a little beeotch to everyone. Oh and Drogo killed him, not Dany. And Dany wasn't in much of a position to do squat about it.

As for the Tarly's, they were given every opportunity to bend the knee. And Randyl was as inconsistent in his honor and loyalty as anyone else. He also threatened to kill his own son, Sam, if he didn't take the black, to negate any claims he may have on his estate. Plus Dany didn't torture them with fire ala the Mad King. They were dead in seconds. And Dickon (huh huh) only died to make some statement about family honor.

And......she has taken a major change of course from pursuing the Iron Throne. Her army and dragons would have completely rolled Kings Landing last season had she given the order. Instead she went north fully knowing she may die in the process.

I still thoroughly contend all of this is misdirection and although Dany will be conflicted with her struggle for power she will ultimately do the right thing in the end. And yes, if she survives the BoW, deposing Cersei is the right thing to do.

Lastly, she is so damn fine I don't care.

Damn you nailed it - I felt like responding but did not have the energy (I'm resting for the battle). Bravo.

She has not just killed indiscriminately and usually they deserved it - but the people are rightfully wary too.

But yeah she even said it when talking to Sansa that she was here for Jon because she loved him. If she just wanted the iron throne she could have done that already. She was a little taken aback by Sansa's statement about the north remaining independent - when the king in the north already bent the knee. But it was left unanswered - we shall see.

And when she talked to jon and he revealed he was Aegon she was of course shocked - but she rallied and was looking to HIM for an answer at the end there - hoping he would marry her I think and then they rule together and the split claim is a moot point..... but the buzzer (horn) sounded and that meant it was time for the game to begin. But notice they went off together and still looking at each other determined in the fight.





Quinn
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

This is my theory #2.

1. NK heading to KL
2. Cersei is planning to come in at the last second to "save the day", but she's planning to take out Dany after, or try to politic her way into keeping the throne
Nah, no way that is Cersei's plan.
Zombie Jon Snow
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Quinn said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

This is my theory #2.

1. NK heading to KL
2. Cersei is planning to come in at the last second to "save the day", but she's planning to take out Dany after, or try to politic her way into keeping the throne
Nah, no way that is Cersei's plan.

She may come in at the last second.... but planning to wipe the humans out. But I'm thinking that backfires.
SpreadsheetAg
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Question about the Golden Company - the originator(s) are descended of the Blackfyres (legitimized *******s of Targs, wielding Blackfyre the Valerian Sword of Aegon Targaryen which was given to the a Blackfyre (sparking their claim and the Blackfyre rebellions)) and other houses banished during the rebellions.

1. Isn't it in their charter to support Blackfyres / Targaryens over other houses?

2. Their goal has ultimately been reunification and reclamation of their ancestral lands in Westeros (the descendants at least) a could they not be enticed by Dany to join her cause by her granting them their titles and lands and castles back?
jenn96
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I wonder if the Night King can turn an adult. I assume not or else he would have before.
wangus12
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How next week ends

M.C. Swag
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Belton Ag said:

M.C. Swag said:

Episode IV said:

M.C. Swag said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Well the time between seasons is when Jamie ride to Winterfell. Bronn was definitely in KL this season. So technically in episode one they were a months travel apart from each other.

I know that's not a perfect science on the show, but Bronn showing up this week is kind of a stretch
Fun Fact: That scene with Bronn and Qyburn was actually filmed LAST season. They just didn't use it until this season.

As an aside, we've thrown 'travel time warp' to the wind with this show. It is what it is. There's not enough screen time left to allow for a 'natural journey length" of time to pass.
To be fair, Jaime left at the end of season 7; but the scene is S8E1 could have been just a day or two later... he could be right behind Jaime, or tailing him the whole time.
Yes, that's a good point. It bears reminding that the scenes, as they play to us, aren't necessarily sequential.
Do you think Bron shows up in Winterfell in time to fight in the battle?
Personally, I do not....but it wouldn't 'shock' me if he did
Fenrir
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Maybe had their Targaryen history been brought to before now but at this point it would feel rushed tondo that imo.
tk for tu juan
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IMDB added an actor to the cast list that has a higher billing than the usual cast members it lists prior to each show...
Urban Ag
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Fenrir said:

Maybe had their Targaryen history been brought to before now but at this point it would feel rushed tondo that imo.
This. That's just too much backstory to try to pull off at this point.

I honestly don't think they'll see much fighting anyway. If any.
Urban Ag
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tk for tu juan said:

IMDB added an actor to the cast list that has a higher billing than the usual cast members it lists prior to each show...
Elton John will be performing at the Jon/Dany wedding?
aggie93
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Lots of mixing of book and show here and they are really 2 different stories at this point. You have to remember that the Show is not designed for the Book Reader, it is designed for the more casual Show watcher who can barely remember what the 7 Kingdoms are much less minute details barely mentioned in the Show.

The Books make EVERY tiny detail important. Also since the Show outpaced the books they have gone to more of a "black and white/good and bad" narrative to make it easier for the viewer. In the Books really no one is purely good and even those who are bad have a backstory (for instance Ramsay was really screwed up by the way his father raised him). They just don't have the time for that in the Show and the subtlety would be lost on 80% of the viewers.

They also like the "payoff" scenes in the Show that are far less common in the Books meaning you get to see the bad guys "get theirs" without a blowback consequence to the "good guys". The Books are far more complex.

To some specifics, Dawn has not really been talked about in the Show, they just talked about Arthur Dayne as The Sword of the Morning. It wouldn't make sense to introduce Dawn back in with so little time left.

Howland Reed is pivotal to the Books but I don't think they have time to bring him back either. Essentially I think they saw the Reeds as a "meh" to the Show watchers and went away from their storyline just like Dorne.
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Urban Ag said:

tk for tu juan said:

IMDB added an actor to the cast list that has a higher billing than the usual cast members it lists prior to each show...
Elton John will be performing at the Jon/Dany wedding?

Yep, Candles in the Wind is actually about the burning remains of wights and white walkers
The Dog Lord
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MuckRaker96 said:

gigemJTH12 said:

Interesting take from the guy on Oysters podcast. Not Ross the other guy.

He said he thinks this whole Dany villain thing is a red herring and that she will be loved again by the viewers very soon. He said no way they spent 7 seasons having her free slaves, travel all this way, come help the north, just to be a hated *****. Bc right now I don't think anyone is that big of a fan of her. And most are kinda hoping she dies.

I kind of buy into this. Her downfall has been too hard and too fast. I can for sure see that being a plot diversion just to throw us off, and she redeems herself this week or next.
Dany's downfall is as long as the series
How about the time she made a business deal, then didn't actually pay and instead had her dragons burn everyone to a crisp? Sure, the slavers were jerks, but if they had backstabbed her and killed her instead, wouldn't you have cried foul?

If your brother was a huge a-hole, but then you saw your husband was about to kill him, wouldn't you say, ya know, he is family, does he deserve to die by having his face melted off? Can't we just banish him? Nope, I'll watch him burn and make a ha-ha about it.

The Tarlys fought with honor and as commanded on the side opposite Dany. She should have used them as political prisoners. Instead she burned their faces off and turned them into soot. Seems like there was another Targ who liked to burn people alive when they didn't agree with him.

You know she's not a classic villain, but she is a character with an objective that has never changed over time. Sitting on the Iron Throne by any means necessary. You get in her way, she removes you. She's done that since the day she smothered Khal Drogo's mentally dead handsome face and burned that witch alive. All we're seeing now is several really popular characters coming together at loggerheads. Jon wants to do the honorable thing (and get laid), Sansa wants to protect her family and the North, and Dany wants to rule (and get laid) -

Jon's birthright throws a huge monkey wrench in her plan. Although it's still just on the words of the law firm of Fat and Crazy. No way she gives up her right to the throne for love though. That's not who she is.
Edit to say that Urban Ag basically made the same points above.

Did she screw someone over on a business deal? Yes, but they were murderers and slavers that insulted her at each step of the deal. In terms of her "badness" this ranks pretty low. She also gave the other masters chances to avoid death when she began ruling Meereen.

Her brother wasn't just an a-hole either. He was threatening to kill her and her unborn child. He also mentioned in the past that he'd let all 40,000 of Drogo's men and their horses rape her to get his throne back. A blood tie wouldn't be the main thing on my mind if someone said that **** to me. Also, I doubt banishing him would do much besides make him even more desperate (and likely vengeful).

The Tarlys fought with honor, but Randyll Tarly is a cruel ******* that was going to kill his son if he didn't take the black. They also had the choice to bend the knee which probably wouldn't be an option if Dany was going full-on Mad Queen. The main issue that I think others had with this situation was that she burned them rather than behead them. They were probably dead almost instantly though. Also, as Sansa said last season, "so there's no punishment for treason and no reward for loyalty?"

https://youtu.be/3iBhXVIv6eg?t=134

Based on GRRM's approach, I wouldn't be surprised if Dany became a villain at the end, but I just don't think it's likely. I agree with others that there is likely a peaceful resolution to the Jon-Dany conflict (or a death that makes it moot).
gigemJTH12
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Perfectly said.

Also her brother had her traded as basically a sex slave initially. For power.

She hasn't wronged any good people at all.
WestAustinAg
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Tyrion talking to Brann is how the combined armies of the North will win the battle. That talk he is having over the night will reveal something about the NK's plans, weaknesses or flaws and Tyrion will get that info to the commanders in the nick of time and they will wipe out the army of the dead.
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FIDO95 said:

GRRM has often stated characters are not all good or all evil. They float in the gray are between the two states of being (Still trying to figure out "the good" in Ramsey Bolton?).
This question coming from you??? Surely you realize he was a DOG lover, he was good to his dogs, housing, feeding, and giving them plenty of playthings.
wangus12
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tk for tu juan said:

IMDB added an actor to the cast list that has a higher billing than the usual cast members it lists prior to each show...
Are you talking about Javier Botet?
Zombie Jon Snow
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tk for tu juan said:

IMDB added an actor to the cast list that has a higher billing than the usual cast members it lists prior to each show...

you talking about Javier Botet???

i'm pretty sure he is gonna be some kind of white walker. he is 6'6" and 120 pounds due to Marfan Syndrome a genetic disorder that contributes to his physique and makes him double-jointed.

He often plays weird villain creatures, etc.

there is s youtube video of him and the monsters he plays - cannot post in spoiler tags
Zombie Jon Snow
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Tony Franklins Other Shoe said:

FIDO95 said:

GRRM has often stated characters are not all good or all evil. They float in the gray are between the two states of being (Still trying to figure out "the good" in Ramsey Bolton?).
This question coming from you??? Surely you realize he was a DOG lover, he was good to his dogs, housing, feeding, and giving them plenty of playthings.

He also had good taste in women. nomsayin
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Yeah
wangus12
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Yeah he plays some really creepy things in horror films. I imagine that is what he'll be.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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What I can't wrap my head around:

You have all this Winterfell defense prep going on putting dragon glass on every surface, getting great balls of fire ready to fling all over. You have most of the valyerian steel in the kingdom floating around. If they can't defend it and get overrun, how is the gold company going to do any better with all the dragon glass back in the north? They might have significant numbers, but the NK would then have even MORE numbers out of the winterfell souls.

Battle likely has to end at wintefell and the finishing episodes are dealing with Cersi.

But it's HBO so maybe the Ents will come in and save the day.
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There is also another actor on the list that is also listed as an extra in Avengers: Endgame. One hell of a weekend for that guy
wangus12
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Zombie Jon Snow said:

Quinn said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

This is my theory #2.

1. NK heading to KL
2. Cersei is planning to come in at the last second to "save the day", but she's planning to take out Dany after, or try to politic her way into keeping the throne
Nah, no way that is Cersei's plan.

She may come in at the last second.... but planning to wipe the humans out. But I'm thinking that backfires.
I could see that happening. She (The Gold Company rather) comes in to attack Winterfell from the opposite direction, but then the NK just wipes everyone out. Shame we'll miss out on dead elephants
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Was going to add that, but he killed Osha before she had time to get nekkid so that took some points off for me.
gigemJTH12
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I don't think Cersei or anyone at KL knows how effed they are. Unless they cooked up a bunch of wildfyre. Without a dragon of their own, they're screwed
Scientific
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All of that....plus if you get the news that you just slept with your nephew? The first thing in your head is that h's the male heir to the throne? Thats the first thing that crosses her head?
Zombie Jon Snow
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tk for tu juan said:

There is also another actor on the list that is also listed as an extra in Avengers: Endgame. One hell of a weekend for that guy

Yeah....well both GOT and Avengers need a lot of dead bodies. lol
Zombie Jon Snow
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Scientific said:

All of that....plus if you get the news that you just slept with your nephew? The first thing in your head is that h's the male heir to the throne? Thats the first thing that crosses her head?

Again.... her dad married his sister.... so her mom is her aunt. Not sure she cares that he is her nephew. She probably would have been bedded by Viserys except he wanted to keep her a virgin for Drogo.

bonfarr
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Episode IV said:

Question about the Golden Company - the originator(s) are descended of the Blackfyres (legitimized *******s of Targs, wielding Blackfyre the Valerian Sword of Aegon Targaryen which was given to the a Blackfyre (sparking their claim and the Blackfyre rebellions)) and other houses banished during the rebellions.

1. Isn't it in their charter to support Blackfyres / Targaryens over other houses?

2. Their goal has ultimately been reunification and reclamation of their ancestral lands in Westeros (the descendants at least) a could they not be enticed by Dany to join her cause by her granting them their titles and lands and castles back?


They have also never broken a contract, siding with Dany would break the contract they agreed to with Cersei so it doesn't seem fitting.
Scientific
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In the show, incest hasn't exactly just been ok. Its still frowned upon. When Jon got the word, you can tell he was absorbing everything in. His Stark line, means everything to him. Dany, didn't question the status of their relationship. Her first thought was Jon's right to the crown.

There's no question who is the more virtuous of the two.
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