THE WITCH

37,876 Views | 298 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by TCTTS
Bunk Moreland
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Call it pretentiousness all you want, but it's the truth.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a good o'l fashion freak out. But that's not what The Witch is. I'm explaining why it is a critical darling, but the audience has largely not liked it.

The masses went into it thinking it was going to be a cheesy freak out. And that's not what it is.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
The pretentiousness lies in making a generalization about why the "masses" didn't like it, based on an assumption about what they want/expect, to justify your own opinion and invalidate theirs.

I knew exactly what kind of movie it was going in (and I'm also a horror fan that doesn't go for cheap scares). Still thought it was alright but could've been much better. I guess I'm an exception?
Bunk Moreland
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Of course you're the exception. The question is why there is a huge division between critic perspective and general audience reaction.

Go read the twitter reaction and from other sites. People saying the worst movie they've ever seen, they felt tricked, etc. etc.

Not "it was alright but could have been better." That's not the tone from the large majority of those who went to see it.

The masses wanted a slap**** power hour of horror. They didn't get that.
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
Having said that, I did notice a large percentage of teenagers in my theater, and they were obviously expecting a scary movie with jump scares and blood. I heard a lot of horrible reviews on the way out. The old-timer next to me said it was one of the worst movies he'd ever seen on the way out the theater.

So I will concede this was probably the case with many people.
Giggy Smalls
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****spoilers***



What about the racism? Black Phillip? Come on. Racialist Hollywood filmmakers. No black academy nominees then you make the devil goat black?

Please.
Bunk Moreland
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every time they said black phillip, I kept thinking up an Always Sunny/Witch Mashup.

Dennis: Goodnight old phillip
Mac: goodnight black phillip
Dennis: dude
Mac: Oh, sorry. Goodnight old black phillip
Brian Earl Spilner
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AG
http://filmschoolrejects.com/features/sorry-black-phillip-but-expectations-matter.php
BassCowboy33
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quote:
quote:
Is it heavily anti-Christian? Does it slander Jesus and find a way to make fun of his followers (and not just Puritans) or the traditional family structure? I could see atheist hipsters and liberal Hollywood types and Jews giving high praises for that reason alone. Genuinely curious.

No.

Also, atheists, hipsters, and liberals make up a massive amount of the general population that isn't "in the business". But keep painting with that broad brush.

It's getting bad reviews because the ignorant masses want an incredibly cheesy movie that just gives you quick scares throughout.

I sat in a packed theater for "When a stranger calls" probably 10 years ago. It was ****ing horrible. Ripe with your horror cliches, girl goes UP the stairs TOWARDS the bad guy. All that ****. Just awful. The worst movie ever. I'm openly laughing, and the rest of the theater is jumping, screaming, and freaking out.

9% on RT, and 40+% audience liked it. A flip of what you see in this situation.

The issue is that The Witch brought in a ton of people who think they love horror movies, but in reality they just like being spooked, but don't have the time to truly get into a horror movie that challenges you and has depth.

The Witch has historical and spiritual depth. If you aren't willing to give it the time to think, then you'll hate it.


I'm gonna heavily disagree with this. Most horror fans that I know are fans of the old school "plot driven" horror films. This one had a couple of issues:

(1) Anti climactic. While the Black Philip scene was very well done, much of the movie leading up to that point had led the viewer believe that an interaction like this would take place; therefore, there wasn't anything truly gleamed during the scene. It's just kind of what everyone expected to happen. That can be overcome by...

(2) doing something we haven't seen before or doing the same thing better, which this didn't do. After the final scene, I literally raised my arms and said, "That's it?". I've found that good plot driven horror is far, far scarier than cheap camera trick horror, but this wasn't scary, wasn't frightening, and the buildup fell flat.

Now, let's dispel some rumors on why people didn't like it:

(1) The Satanic aspect. What person would see a movie about witches that was widely lauded by The Church of Satan, then complain about how it portrayed Christianity? The answer: no one. This is the worst reason I've heard for this. The film does an excellent job at showing how crazy this family was even by the most ardent Baptist/Mennonite/whatever standards.

(2) The "kids don't like plot driven horror" excuse. Please. The crowd at this film was nearly all middle aged. I was one of the youngest in the theater. I'm a HUGE fan of the old school horror films (as has been documented in this thread), and I still thought that this film lacked ending. I agree with an earlier poster that showing the witch in the opening sequences actually took away from a film that attempting to bring terror based on what you didn't see. After that, the witch lost most of her intrigue.

In my estimation, it seems that his film told a story. It told that story very well and beautifully (the score was awesome); however, it's not a story that scared, haunted, frightened, or deeply engaged most audiences. Not just millenials.
BassCowboy33
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quote:
Call it pretentiousness all you want, but it's the truth.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a good o'l fashion freak out. But that's not what The Witch is. I'm explaining why it is a critical darling, but the audience has largely not liked it.

The masses went into it thinking it was going to be a cheesy freak out. And that's not what it is.


Disagree. The masses read the reviews and were expecting something they never experienced: fear and terror. Both those are different than being scared.
BassCowboy33
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What you have in "The Witch" is that rare, but not unheard of, film that does really well with critics, but poorly with audiences. This in the same line as "Requiem For a Dream", "Sideways", or "Cold Mountain". There's not necessarily anything wrong with that.
Bunk Moreland
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quote:
quote:
Call it pretentiousness all you want, but it's the truth.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a good o'l fashion freak out. But that's not what The Witch is. I'm explaining why it is a critical darling, but the audience has largely not liked it.

The masses went into it thinking it was going to be a cheesy freak out. And that's not what it is.


Disagree. The masses read the reviews and were I expecting something they never experienced: fear and terror. Both those are different than being scared.


I won't hijack the thread so this is the last I'll say about it. You aren't the masses. Brian isn't the masses.

The masses don't read critics reviews. The masses see "oh **** scary witch movie trailer hellz yes" and then get upset when it's not your typical horror flick.

Having legit criticisms is one thing, and I respect and appreciate that. But the masses walked out of the theater confused as angry, thinking they were tricked, calling it the worst movie ever, etc. That's different from having some issues with a film.
El Mero Guero
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quote:
(1) The Satanic aspect. What person would see a movie about witches that was widely lauded by The Church of Satan, then complain about how it portrayed Christianity? The answer: no one.
Not everyone is forum browsing entertainment geeks like us who do heavy due diligence on every movie that comes out. I bet a lot of people saw this thinking the trailer was cool, not knowing that The Church of Satan was praising it.

I'll admit, I kind of want to avoid giving any money to a film that is lauded by a bunch of Satan worshipers. I probably won't pay to see this one.
The Devil
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quote:
quote:
No, it doesn't attack Christianity, it portrays it exactly as it is. If you're a christian and believe in God and Jesus, then you obviously believe in the devil. This movie showcases the faith of a puritan era family and their encounters with evil (or the devil).
I don't, but that's for another thread on another forum.

Well I don't believe in you
BassCowboy33
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quote:
quote:
quote:
No, it doesn't attack Christianity, it portrays it exactly as it is. If you're a christian and believe in God and Jesus, then you obviously believe in the devil. This movie showcases the faith of a puritan era family and their encounters with evil (or the devil).
I don't, but that's for another thread on another forum.

Well I don't believe in you


It's a very philosophical discussion. For there to be a God, there has to be a devil. This logic works with multitudes of different topics from politics to emotions to biology.
mhayden
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Meh.

Thought it was a well done movie, but not particularly scary and can't say it's going to leave a real lasting impression on me. I think as far as "period pieces" go, tension was done much better in a somewhat similar thriller (not horror) of Ravenous and to a lesser extent The Others.

As far as the comparison to The Exorcist, similar in the sense of the plight of the mother/family for their child, and both very well acted all the way around... but The Exorcist was shocking for it's time, while The Witch really isn't... Though part of that is due to a lot of the shock and gore movies out there -- which The Witch isn't, but it's hard to really push the envelope these days (and if we're looking for a dark movie that pushes the envelope, you'd have to go with Antichrist -- which pushed the envelope but was just a bad movie).

Hell, as far as tension/dread goes I think 'It Follows' actually did a better job.

From start to finish I'd still consider The Conjuring the best of the last decade by a significant margin (assuming we don't categorize Cabin In the Woods as true horror -- because if so then it takes the cake because it's simply a blast).
mavsfan4ever
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AG
quote:
The issue is that The Witch brought in a ton of people who think they love horror movies, but in reality they just like being spooked, but don't have the time to truly get into a horror movie that challenges you and has depth.


Most people that went to this weren't expecting a jump out of your seat fright fest. Sure, I'm sure some people who didn't even read a single thing about it were, but a lot of people went for the sole reason they heard it wasn't a cliche jump out of your seat movie.

The only reason I went is because I heard it was it driven and extremely creepy. I would not have gone if it was like other horror films. I just thought it failed at being plot driven and creepy.

Not everyone who disliked the movie is an idiot with a junior high education who wanted cheap thrills. Was it shot well? Sure. Was the plot/story good? Alot of people seem to think not. Was it scary/creepy? Again, a lot of people think not. Did it leave a lasting impression for me? Absolutely not.
Bunk Moreland
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Read the rest of my posts. You aren't the masses. I'm not commenting on legit criticism, which I respect and am happy to agree to disagree with.
ellebee
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*******spoilers*******


Just saw it. I went in expecting the same level of scary that is more along the lines of The Exorcist, which it wasn't, but I still really liked it. It was pretty creepy and I questioned everyone throughout the film except the girl, so the ending was a bit surprising when she was the one that ended up giving in. It seemed to me like she was relieved after she killed her mom and wondered if some part of her enjoyed it. Mercy and Jonas were creepy as hell and I too wasn't sure if they were persuaded by black Phillip (which is totally going to be the name of my next animal) or just being brats.

Even though it didn't turn out how I thought it would be, I don't think I have any complaints. I'm going to be trying to work this one out in my head for a day or two and wouldn't mind seeing it again to see if I missed anything the first time.
BassCowboy33
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quote:
quote:
The issue is that The Witch brought in a ton of people who think they love horror movies, but in reality they just like being spooked, but don't have the time to truly get into a horror movie that challenges you and has depth.


Most people that went to this weren't expecting a jump out of your seat fright fest. Sure, I'm sure some people who didn't even read a single thing about it were, but a lot of people went for the sole reason they heard it wasn't a cliche jump out of your seat movie.

The only reason I went is because I heard it was it driven and extremely creepy. I would not have gone if it was like other horror films. I just thought it failed at being plot driven and creepy.

Not everyone who disliked the movie is an idiot with a junior high education who wanted cheap thrills. Was it shot well? Sure. Was the plot/story good? Alot of people seem to think not. Was it scary/creepy? Again, a lot of people think not. Did it leave a lasting impression for me? Absolutely not.


I've been making this same argument for four pages.
mavsfan4ever
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AG
quote:
mavsfan4ever
Read the rest of my posts. You aren't the masses. I'm not commenting on legit criticism, which I respect and am happy to agree to disagree with.


Yea, I get what you're saying. And I'm sure some of the masses feel the way you think they do. I just think you and TC are overestimating how much of the bad user scores are from people who were expecting a fright fest. For instance, the people on this thread aren't complaining because there weren't enough fright fest moments. Some of us just thought it was not a great movie for other reasons. It just seems like an easy cop out to say people that don't like a movie are just not sophisticated enough, etc when sometimes there are other reasons.

At least in my theater, this wasn't a teenage horror movie crowd at all, so I don't think the people in my theater were expecting jump out of your seat frights. But maybe other theaters were different.
mhayden
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*SPOILERS*




I took from it the rest of the family was sinners and she really wasn't but in the end she had nothing left and so was then easily persuaded to "sign the book". Or taken from the Puritan angle -- she was going to go to hell anyways so why not?


I think much like the 'It Follows' hype, competent horror movies are so few and far between that anything done with a high degree of competency from a filming standpoint (acting, dialogue, story, etc...) is praised heavily.

But for those that classify horror as something truly scary, this isn't going to go down as one of the greatest ever... You can show almost anyone a movie like The Shining, Halloween, The Exorcist, etc... and they will take something away from it.

This movie, while well done, isn't going to "stay with me"... As it wasn't scary and didn't really even have any scary "images" in it... No little twins holding hands in the hallway, no quick-cuts of Captain Howdy, no "The Shape" standing in the shadows.

I thought the score was well done, but maybe I'm really, really remembering wrong but it reminded me of Ravenous quite a bit.
agmag90
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From what I've read here, in this movie the jump scares are litter or non-existent. Are there jump scares in this movie? Going to see it tonight, hate jump scares

TIA
Sex Panther
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AG
quote:
From what I've read here, in this movie the jump scares are litter or non-existent. Are there jump scares in this movie? Going to see it tonight, hate jump scares

TIA

No, it's just creepy and atmospheric
Brian Earl Spilner
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The only jump scare I can think of (and I'm reaching) ****semi-spoiler****















is when Black Phillip gores the dad.
























****end spoiler****
Velvet Jones
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AG
quote:

quote:
I realize this will probably be chalked up to pretentious LA types, but I've never seen this kind of differential in opinion between folks in the industry and those who aren't. Every LA friend or co-worker I've talked to about this one feels the same way I do, if not more so, while it seems to have underwhelmed most of you guys.
Is it heavily anti-Christian? Does it slander Jesus and find a way to make fun of his followers (and not just Puritans) or the traditional family structure? I could see atheist hipsters and liberal Hollywood types and Jews giving high praises for that reason alone. Genuinely curious.
The Jews don't give a **** about Christianity.

HTH
The Collective
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AG
I thought it was meh. Since it appears that I am too dumb to have enjoyed this movie, I will withhold commenting on what I did not like about it.
ellebee
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There is only one jump scare.
agmag90
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Appreciate the info!
Waltonloads08
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I have a black male chihuahua that im going to rename 'Black Phillip'.
Hogties
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AG
I enjoyed it but it wasn't really scary. Creepy sure. Scary? Not so much. I for sure got a feel for how ultra religious isolated families could really go a little nuts on the frontier.

A much more scary atmospheric recent movie was the Babadook. That movie has stuck with me since I saw it. Scary and thought provoking. The Witch just made me want to visit Willamsburg.
BassCowboy33
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quote:
I enjoyed it but it wasn't really scary. Creepy sure. Scary? Not so much. I for sure got a feel for how ultra religious isolated families could really go a little nuts on the frontier.

A much more scary atmospheric recent movie was the Babadook. That movie has stuck with me since I saw it. Scary and thought provoking. The Witch just made me want to visit Willamsburg.


Without looking it up, I don't think that movie was filmed near there. That was a hilly, forested area. Williamsburg is a dank, swampy area.

I've been wrong before, though.
Bruce Almighty
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It was filmed in Canada.
SapperAg
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AG
quote:
I enjoyed it but it wasn't really scary. Creepy sure. Scary? Not so much. I for sure got a feel for how ultra religious isolated families could really go a little nuts on the frontier.

A much more scary atmospheric recent movie was the Babadook. That movie has stuck with me since I saw it. Scary and thought provoking. The Witch just made me want to visit Willamsburg.


Williamsburg is more late 18th century. Check out Plimouth Plantation or Deerfield for a more 17th Century vibe.

Fun fact, Salem town used to nail the scalps of Indians turned in for bounties on the walls of their meeting house (that's the Puritan church/town hall). Fun!
El Mero Guero
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Sounds like many Puritans more closely followed the example of Muhammed than Jesus. Jesus and his apostles mingled with the pagans and never preached violence against non believers. I would be interested in learning more about how it was that Puritans came to be such monsters.
Sex Panther
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AG
You're kind of a strange dude
 
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