THE WITCH

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El Mero Guero
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In reply to Sex Panther • 11:21p, 2/24/16
quote:
You're kind of a strange dude


In what way? It was a serious question. If you read about the puritans, they were a backwards and barbaric people. Similar to devoutly religious isolated people you might find today in the mountains of Afghanistan or similar places. I know that Sapper has studied this stuff heavily over the years and maybe others have as well and could offer some input as to how followers of Christ became such polar opposites of what Christ stood for? Did life just suck so bad back then that it turned them into a dark and twisted people? Were they this way when they were in England? Haven't studied this stuff since like 5th grade when all the teachers taught us that the Native Americans welcomed them all with open arms and everyone had potlucks and sang cumbaya together.
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El Mero Guero
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In reply to Sex Panther • 11:28p, 2/24/16
Dp
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SapperAg
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In reply to El Mero Guero • 5:43a, 2/25/16
AG
quote:
Sounds like many Puritans more closely followed the example of Muhammed than Jesus. Jesus and his apostles mingled with the pagans and never preached violence against non believers. I would be interested in learning more about how it was that Puritans came to be such monsters.


Came to be? Just look at the Europe they emerged from. The 30 Years War was in full swing when they left. Those atrocities make the Puritans look like pacifists by comparison.

By the time of King Philip's War in 1675, the idea of Indians as innocent souls who simply needed to hear the Gospel in order to convert (and remember that convert for English Protestants meant to adopt English culture and manners) had given way to the belief that the Indians were of Satan. There was always tension between the idea of the Indians as innocents and the Indians as the chosen people of Satan. There was a popular idea of antipodes in all things. Thus, if God had a chosen people that he led on an Exodus from Egypt, than it's likely that Satan had his own chosen people that he led on an Exodus to HIS land of milk and honey. And that America was that land. Literally a land of Satan. Again, the fears of disorder and the wilderness come to the fore.
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ellebee
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In reply to Waltonloads08 • 7:05a, 2/25/16
quote:
I have a black male chihuahua that im going to rename 'Black Phillip'.


I've had my black pig named dahlia for about 6 years but I think black Phillip is more fitting for her evil ass.
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emando2000
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11:29a, 2/25/16
AG
Watched it last night.

I really liked this movie. I appreciate great acting, writing and originality in movies. I have to admit that I had not heard of this movie until I came across this thread a few days ago. The background you guys wrote regarding the authenticity helped me set an expectation. I'm not sure how I would've reacted not knowing that ahead of time. I really liked how you could tell this family was breaking apart with the hardships and solitude. Someone commented on not liking the 2 kids acting... well, I'd argue that they did a great job since they were simply playing young kids. Kids aren't meant to be mature. They both were what... 6-8 years old in this movie?

Horror movies don't typically draw my attention simply b/c I don't care to spend $12 on a movie with cheap scare tactics. And a lot of the same stories have been done over and over. I will however go watch a movie that has a realistic approach to it. *Disclaimer* From past experiences I do believe in ghosts so any movie that seems like it could actually happen really intrigues me. Movies like the Shining and The Exorcist scared the chit out of me when I was young but not so much anymore.


*****spoiler*****

The possessed scene was a bit different. Most scenes have a demonic voice or levitation but this one was simply the kid dying before our eyes. I was impressed with his delivery right before he passes. The kids playing possum wasn't believable. I doubt those kids could've laid there for that long....not a biggie but I thought it was off.

Question? What do y'all think the kid coughing up the apple represented? I heard the references in the movie but I thought it was an odd addition. Why was it significant? Was it Black Phillip listening to their conversations?

I loved the scene with Thomasin & Black Phillip. Very creepy! I liked that it was a soft voice. I do wish she had more of a frightened look on her face when whatever it was circled her. She was more confronting and didn't seem to acknowledge that there was something behind her.

Overall I can see how some didn't enjoy it as much as others but I thought it was great acting and eery. While I won't go watch it again from beginning to end, I would rewatch from the possessed scene on to the ending. Thanks to those that commented on the Puritan viewpoints and their beliefs. It added a foundation for me to appreciate the movie considering I knew next to nothing beforehand.
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to emando2000 • 12:30p, 2/25/16
quote:
Watched it last night.

I really liked this movie. I appreciate great acting, writing and originality in movies. I have to admit that I had not heard of this movie until I came across this thread a few days ago. The background you guys wrote regarding the authenticity helped me set an expectation. I'm not sure how I would've reacted not knowing that ahead of time. I really liked how you could tell this family was breaking apart with the hardships and solitude. Someone commented on not liking the 2 kids acting... well, I'd argue that they did a great job since they were simply playing young kids. Kids aren't meant to be mature. They both were what... 6-8 years old in this movie?

Horror movies don't typically draw my attention simply b/c I don't care to spend $12 on a movie with cheap scare tactics. And a lot of the same stories have been done over and over. I will however go watch a movie that has a realistic approach to it. *Disclaimer* From past experiences I do believe in ghosts so any movie that seems like it could actually happen really intrigues me. Movies like the Shining and The Exorcist scared the chit out of me when I was young but not so much anymore.


*****spoiler*****

The possessed scene was a bit different. Most scenes have a demonic voice or levitation but this one was simply the kid dying before our eyes. I was impressed with his delivery right before he passes. The kids playing possum wasn't believable. I doubt those kids could've laid there for that long....not a biggie but I thought it was off.

Question? What do y'all think the kid coughing up the apple represented? I heard the references in the movie but I thought it was an odd addition. Why was it significant? Was it Black Phillip listening to their conversations?

I loved the scene with Thomasin & Black Phillip. Very creepy! I liked that it was a soft voice. I do wish she had more of a frightened look on her face when whatever it was circled her. She was more confronting and didn't seem to acknowledge that there was something behind her.

Overall I can see how some didn't enjoy it as much as others but I thought it was great acting and eery. While I won't go watch it again from beginning to end, I would rewatch from the possessed scene on to the ending. Thanks to those that commented on the Puritan viewpoints and their beliefs. It added a foundation for me to appreciate the movie considering I knew next to nothing beforehand.
I'm the opposite. The older I get, the more movies like The Exorcist scare me. In fact, the movie seems to get scarier each time I see it.
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M.C. Swag
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12:49p, 2/25/16
AG
quote:
Question? What do y'all think the kid coughing up the apple represented?
I had naturally assumed it was in direct relation to his earlier lie about finding an apple tree, but it could obviously also have some biblical undertones. In conjunction with his vision of Jesus, maybe it could be construed as his original sin (or demonic possession) leaving his body?
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 12:51p, 2/25/16
quote:
quote:
Question? What do y'all think the kid coughing up the apple represented?
I had naturally assumed it was in direct relation to his earlier lie about finding an apple tree, but it could obviously also have some biblical undertones.
I've seen several religious reviews compare this as an "anti-Job".
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mhayden
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12:52p, 2/25/16
The Exorcist holds up, but that's because there is also appeal in the on-screen relationship between Reagan and her mother. She is such a like-able little girl and the movie did such a great job of showing the great relationship and bond she had with her mother that when she is possessed, as a younger movie watcher the fear comes from the "monster/things-that-go-bump-in-the-night"... as an older movie watcher the fear comes from watching our child suffer immensely and seemingly having no way to relieve their pain.

Similarly it's why I imagine The Babadook is a helluva lot more full of impact to a single mother.
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M.C. Swag
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1:01p, 2/25/16
AG
Also, I believe the apple had a bite mark on it. This could be an homage to Snow White and the poison apple used by the witch to send her victim into a death like sleep?
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agmag90
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In reply to emando2000 • 1:12p, 2/25/16
quote:






*****spoiler*****

Question? What do y'all think the kid coughing up the apple represented? I heard the references in the movie but I thought it was an odd addition. Why was it significant? Was it Black Phillip listening to their conversations?
**Spoilers**

To cover for his father, Caleb lied to his mother about picking apples in the valley (or valluh.) I saw the apple as representing the sin Caleb committed, the sin of lying. So when you see Caleb cough it up, I interpreted this as either a) representing that evil leaving his body b) the revelation of the source of his possession.

Also in reference to the apple, the scene where the lady kisses Caleb in the forest has a similarity to the Snow White story. In the story of snow white, there is also someone disguised as a woman in the woods who lures snow white with a poisoned apple. Now in The Witch we don't actually see the lady in the woods with an apple, but maybe it could be implied after Caleb coughs it up. I wouldn't be surprised if the director intended for this parallel as he has mentioned he drew inspiration from folklore and fairy tales.

Just my thoughts....

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agmag90
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1:14p, 2/25/16
Yeah I took too long to type, basically what MC said
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mhayden
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1:18p, 2/25/16
I think the apple being an homage to Snow White doesn't really fit in with the rest of the movie. It's goes to great lengths to be as historically accurate as possible... so throwing in an illusion to a fairy tale that didn't come about until 200 years later really wouldn't fit.

As for it being related to Caleb's sin of lying... I felt like the sin they were hitting us over the head with for Caleb was lust (for his sister)... which is why the witch took on the form she did to lure him in.

Someone had mentioned in another thread that the sister had actually talked about yearning for an apple, which would then have it further the intent of the with to make Thomasin look like the one causing it all.

Or of course you could just go with the simpler "Adam and Eve" view of the apple... Caleb gave into his sinful desire (lust) and the bite out of the apple represents that.
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BassCowboy33
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1:24p, 2/25/16
Again, I feel this story has more relation to Job than Snow White.
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M.C. Swag
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1:29p, 2/25/16
AG
The apple could have multiple meanings and ultimately only the director/writer knows which is correct.
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SapperAg
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In reply to mhayden • 1:32p, 2/25/16
AG
Our modern version of Snow White is from the 18th-19th century. The original tale is much older and much darker and did still include an apple. Now, whether the English told this story is another question.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 1:41p, 2/25/16
AG
I'm only vaguely familiar with the story of Job (farmer who loses everything and doesn't lose faith) but I definitely don't recall any tie ins with an apple? I'd be interested if you'd expound on this.
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agmag90
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1:47p, 2/25/16
Also, there could be parallels to both Job and Snow White
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to M.C. Swag • 2:10p, 2/25/16
quote:
I'm only vaguely familiar with the story of Job (farmer who loses everything and doesn't lose faith) but I definitely don't recall any tie ins with an apple? I'd be interested if you'd expound on this.


Correct. The apple is often used as a symbol of original sin. It's not in the story of Job. I'm saying that whole film seems like a kind of "anti-job". The family loses faith one by one and are hence eliminated by Satan.
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M.C. Swag
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 2:17p, 2/25/16
AG
Ahh gotcha. Yea, I could see the movie as a whole portraying some parallels to the story of Job (and i believe the father states as much in the film at some point). Specifically to the possession scene with the apple, I believe it could have multiple meanings.

Iconography of witches and poison apples - such as Snow White and earlier fables.
Biblical reference to adam & eve, original sin, all that jazz.
More direct tie to film's plot and Caleb's earlier lie about finding an apple tree.

Could be any, none, or all of the above.
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wangus12
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2:57p, 2/25/16
AG
This is the dude who did Black Phillip's voice. Makes since.

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Funky Winkerbean
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5:03p, 2/26/16
AG
I really liked it. I think the biggest mistake one could make is calling it a horror film. Would a film about ISIS in 400 years be a horror?

I also was waiting for "witch hunt" by Rush to explode through the speakers at the end..
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Bruce Almighty
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In reply to Funky Winkerbean • 5:12p, 2/26/16
AG
quote:
I really liked it. I think the biggest mistake one could make is calling it a horror film. Would a film about ISIS in 400 years be a horror?

I also was waiting for "witch hunt" by Rush to explode through the speakers at the end..


I don't understand your point. ISIS is real.
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Funky Winkerbean
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In reply to Bruce Almighty • 5:23p, 2/26/16
AG
quote:
quote:
I really liked it. I think the biggest mistake one could make is calling it a horror film. Would a film about ISIS in 400 years be a horror?

I also was waiting for "witch hunt" by Rush to explode through the speakers at the end..


I don't understand your point. ISIS is real.


Witchcraft was real to them. What is reality?
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M.C. Swag
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5:25p, 2/26/16
AG
wut?
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Bruce Almighty
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5:25p, 2/26/16
AG
But it dealt with a witch that isn't real. Whether they believed it or not doesn't matter. People also used to believe in vampires.
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BassCowboy33
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5:42p, 2/26/16
While it's real in the film, witches as we know them today did not exist. 400 years from now, some civilization will say the same thing about us in certain areas that we think are perfectly fathomable. It'll probably be about widely held scientific viewpoints like "the big bang", killing babies, climate change, carbon dating, or some sort of weirdness that we hold as fact or nearly so.
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Funky Winkerbean
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5:50p, 2/26/16
AG
Sorry, I guess my point could use an explanation. I'm on my phone and I'll try to explain what I'm thinking later. I'm not entirely clear myself what I'm sensing after watching it. I keep going back to the closing where it was reiterated that the story was taken from historical writings of that period. obvious fiction to us now, but reality to the puritans in the 1600's.

I felt like the director wasn't trying to scare the audience with tales of witchcraft, he was trying to explain it.
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Simplebay
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2:08p, 2/27/16
AG
Saw this. The atmosphere and the acting were good. But they lost a lot of people during the first 1/3 when nothingggg waa happening (seriously, how many times do we need to see him chopping wood)

It needed a COUPLE more eye roll cheesy jump scares, or like a creepy standing in the back watching. The pallette wasn't wet enough in the first 1/3. No complaints about the final 2/3

Overall, 6/10. But fk outta here whoever said it was on The Conjuring level.
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mhayden
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2:53p, 2/27/16
I don't need jump scares, but if you're going to go the slow route there needs to be a significant sense of dread built up... I just didn't get that with this movie. Wasn't boring by any means, but I certainly wasn't on the edge of my seat or just feeling on edge with dread like a Shining or even Session 9.
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Motel California
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10:51p, 2/27/16
S
I wish I could unsee this movie. So creepy, so uncomfortable and so awkward...
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BassCowboy33
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11:04p, 2/27/16
I'm an hour into Bone Tomahawk and I'm far more scared now than I was during any point of The Witch. Kurt Russell is the shiznit.
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Thunder18
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 1:26a, 2/28/16
AG
quote:
I'm an hour into Bone Tomahawk and I'm far more scared now than I was during any point of The Witch. Kurt Russell is the shiznit.


If Bone Tomahawk is scarier than the VVitch I would definitely not categorize the latter as a horror film
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BassCowboy33
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In reply to Thunder18 • 7:02a, 2/28/16
quote:
quote:
I'm an hour into Bone Tomahawk and I'm far more scared now than I was during any point of The Witch. Kurt Russell is the shiznit.


If Bone Tomahawk is scarier than the VVitch I would definitely not categorize the latter as a horror film


Not to hijack a thread, but, man, talk about a slow burn executed wonderfully. The whole idea of the troglodytes and their capabilities was maddeningly frightening. We've talked a lot on this thread of slow burn, terror, and payoff. The final thirty minutes of Bone Tomahawk was just...wow. What a wonderfully made film. I've never seen a western/horror film that worked that well. Felt very much like good Cronenberg or John Carpenter. Superb acting. It's not very often that you see such an outside the box take on something like that.
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BennyBlancoFromTheBright
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In reply to BassCowboy33 • 7:23a, 2/28/16
AG
I also really enjoyed 'Bone Tomahawk.'

Within the next few days, I decided to watch the dark western from Tommy Lee Jones called 'The Homesman' -- had it saved in my netflix queue for a while, and decided to give it a go.

It was also a slow burn western, but I felt more uneasy with this movie than the other -- and the ending certainly didn't provide any catharsis. Well made movie though with some great actors. I'd still recommend it, but know going into it you're going to feel pretty down after the viewing.
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