***** Game of Thrones: Season 5 (TV SHOW ONLY) ***** [STAFF WARNING ON OP]

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The Debt
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In reply to chipotle • 5:32p, 5/26/15
quote:
ha...The sparrow Prince
Now theres an interesting idea. Does the High Septon swear off matrimony? The Father did indeed have the Mother, and the gods are a reflection of what we strive for.

The High Sparrow might be a noble. Or he might be a Bronn who works his way into nobility, but his sword is his faith.
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drewbie08
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 5:35p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
Oh my.
Underrated.
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mattvswild
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8:12p, 5/26/15
AG
I think the handsome boy is Loras' f buddy. Sadly for him, I don't think he'll make it to the trial... Just a guess, but everything else I've read on here or thought about seems totally out of left field. But that's how this season has been going anyway, so what the f do I know...?
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SpreadsheetAg
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8:22p, 5/26/15
AG
Could he have found Rickon while in the North?
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redline248
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In reply to SpreadsheetAg • 9:34p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
Could he have found Rickon while in the North?
Pretty sure the only people that know about that are Theon, Ramsey and Roose. LF wouldn't even know to look, and Sansa was with him the entire time. When did he have a chance to stumble on Rickon? Also, last we saw of him, Bran told Osha to take Rickon to the Umbers (I think), and LF wouldn't have gone that far north to visit Winterfell.
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AgLaw02
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10:14p, 5/26/15
AG
I think the Knights Watch is going to turn foul while Jon is away. It's a group of criminals that requires strong leadership to stay on the right path. Maester Aemon (the old guy) died, and he's the moral compass of the group. We've already seen an attempted rape. Sam is a good guy, and he's in big trouble.

Jon obviously may struggle to regain leadership when/if he returns, but the Knights Watch problems run deeper than that.
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Trident 88
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In reply to AgLaw02 • 10:43p, 5/26/15
AG
I agree, but it's probably going to be Alliser Thorne who starts the trouble, not Olly, as some people have guessed. The only reason they keep showing Olly scowling at Jon is to make it clear that Jon's decision to try building an alliance with the wildlings is costing him the support of his men, even the ones who voted for him. So, there's probably going to be a fight when/if Jon shows up with wildlings at Castle Black. The question is how it will end.
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Objective Aggie
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In reply to Objective Aggie • 10:52p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
Have we seen Highgarden or Casterly Rock in the show . . . ever?
asking again
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AggieHank86
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In reply to AgLaw02 • 10:53p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
I think the Knights Watch is going to turn foul while Jon is away. It's a group of criminals that requires strong leadership to stay on the right path.
This description is generally accurate as to the rank and file, but less so for the officers. For the most part, the officers seem to he either knights or younger sons of nobility, who seem to voluntarily join the Watch or the Faith when it is clear they will not inherit.

For example, Ser Waymar Royce in the very first scene of the first episode of the first season (before the Walker killed him).
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Ag of Northern Virginia
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10:54p, 5/26/15
Agreed. My guess is that Alliser ordered the rape. However, him mutinying seems too obvious for this show.
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Jugstore Cowboy
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In reply to Objective Aggie • 11:00p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
quote:
Have we seen Highgarden or Casterly Rock in the show . . . ever?
asking again


No.
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Jugstore Cowboy
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In reply to Ag of Northern Virginia • 11:02p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
Agreed. My guess is that Alliser ordered the rape. However, him mutinying seems too obvious for this show.


I thought about that too. Didn't he tell Sam "all your friends are gone?"
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The Debt
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11:12p, 5/26/15
FWIW, I dont think Thorne is a mutineer. If you recall his speech to Jon Snow during the battle, (paraphrasing) "I should have sealed the tunnel. But thats what being in charge is about, having the responsibility of the lives of others in your hand, and having everyone under you question your judgment."
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PooDoo
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In reply to Ag of Northern Virginia • 11:29p, 5/26/15
AG
quote:
Agreed. My guess is that Alliser ordered the rape. However, him mutinying seems too obvious for this show.


Doubt a rape would have to be ordered in that situation.
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Ag of Northern Virginia
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11:57p, 5/26/15
Maybe 'order' isn't the right word but at the minimum, they had his blessing. I believe the attackers were standing next to him during the funeral. They are probably his men. The show has made it clear Alliser hates Wildlings, lost to Jon by one vote (from Aemon), saw his best friend executed on Jon's orders, and probably opposes Jon's mission more than anyone else. Plus the obvious threat he gave to Sam. Jon's definitely in for another battle when he returns except he'll be fighting with the Wildlings against Alliser and the mutineers.
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AgLaw02
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In reply to AggieHank86 • 7:21a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
quote:
I think the Knights Watch is going to turn foul while Jon is away. It's a group of criminals that requires strong leadership to stay on the right path.
This description is generally accurate as to the rank and file, but less so for the officers.
Yeah, but the strong leadership (Jon) is gone. Aemon, who served as the group's moral compass through 12 Lord Commanders, is also gone. Sam is totally marginalized. Allister Thorne has no vision or sense of morality. It's like I said the first time: the organization is turning foul.
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HtownAg92
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7:41a, 5/27/15
AG
No, but I believe he has an unquestioned loyalty to the Watch and its mission. He hated Jon because he was "nobility" and probably believed that he joined the watch for a hobby. He hates Sam because he is worthless as a fighter. Have any of his counters to Jon been pure bias or are they all what he believes is best for the watch?
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dave94
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In reply to HtownAg92 • 8:22a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
No, but I believe he has an unquestioned loyalty to the Watch and its mission. He hated Jon because he was "nobility" and probably believed that he joined the watch for a hobby. He hates Sam because he is worthless as a fighter. Have any of his counters to Jon been pure bias or are they all what he believes is best for the watch?


I've always considered Thorne to be an *******, but honorable. I think he's been made to look better as the show has progressed so I can see him surprising everyone by trying to prevent a mutiny in the end. And I don't believe he would order or allow the rape of Gilley no matter if she's a wildling.

I suppose I could be totally wrong, it is GOT after all.
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mattvswild
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9:35a, 5/27/15
AG
Yeah, Thorne is an ass, but he respects the office of Lord Commander and the institution. Think back to when that bald dude lost his head after Jon was elected - Thorne stepped aside to let the men grab him and take him outside when he could have argued, fought, etc...
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DannyDuberstein
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10:18a, 5/27/15
AG
Agree about Thorne. Butts heads with Snow and they make it appear that he could lead a mutiny, but when push comes to shove, I think he ends up holding things together for Snow.
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Trident 88
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11:10a, 5/27/15
AG
Yes, Thorne respects the institution, which is why he feels absolutely certain that Snow is unworthy of being Lord Commander. Remember how he treated Jon when they first met? In fact, he has never thought that Jon was even worthy of being a member of the brotherhood.

Thorne smells the opportunity to take over now that Aemon is dead. He'll tell himself that he's not doing it for personal gain, but just because he knows best how the Night's Watch should be run.

Assuming that Jon manages to come back with wildlings, Thorne will challenge him for the leadership position. In fact, I doubt that Thorne and the rest of the Night's Watch will even allow them to enter Castle Black.
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Brian Earl Spilner
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11:13a, 5/27/15
AG
Why does Thorne hate Sam so much? I know he supported Snow in the election but pretty sure he hated him before that s well.
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redline248
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:16a, 5/27/15
AG
b/c he was a fat coward that couldn't even stand up and hold a sword. How's he supposed to help defend the realms of men?

edit: Although, I got the impression he hated all new recruits as a rule, especially younger ones.
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Trident 88
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:18a, 5/27/15
AG
It's pretty clear he thinks (correctly) that Sam is physically useless, and he doesn't appreciate that Sam might be of use now that Aemon is dead.
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Ol Jock 99
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In reply to Brian Earl Spilner • 11:18a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
Why does Thorne hate Sam so much? I know he supported Snow in the election but pretty sure he hated him before that s well.
Because Sam is physically & mentally (albeit much less so) weak. Thorne feels Sam is much more of a drag than an benefit. Aemon say Sam's potential, but Thorne is a ranger officer.

On Jon, I think Thorne thought Jon worthy as a brother, but has a thing against cocky highborn lordlings. Which Jon certainly was when he first got there. So Thorne was bent on knocking Jon down a peg, Jon stood up (which Thorne REALLY hated), and now, despite Thorne's best humbling efforts, Jon has risen to Lord Commander.
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culdeus
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11:20a, 5/27/15
AG
No story arc has a worse +/- rating than Sam and Gilly. Consistently boring dead end that never moves the plot along.

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Quinn
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11:20a, 5/27/15
AG
Do y'all think we will see the Wall again this season? With Jon leaving to meet up with the people beyond the Wall, I'd be surprised if we saw him back there before 2016.

Here is what I think we will see:
- Jon and the Wildlings meet up and travel
- Stannis vs Boltons at Winterfell
- Arya vs Ser Meran or whatever his name is that is taking the dum dum from the small council to Bravos
- Dany either marrying or killing that Mereen dude
- Dany and Tyrion teaming up or her banishing him
- Religion freaks vs the King
- 10 more Theon scenes, probably
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Trident 88
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In reply to Ol Jock 99 • 11:24a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
On Jon, I think Thorne thought Jon worthy as a brother, but has a thing against cocky highborn lordlings. Which Jon certainly was when he first got there. So Thorne was bent on knocking Jon down a peg, Jon stood up (which Thorne REALLY hated), and now, despite Thorne's best humbling efforts, Jon has risen to Lord Commander.
Okay, I'll buy that Thorne thought Jon worthy as a brother, but other than that, you and I are talking about the same thing - Thorne's ego. I think he will make a move to take over as Lord Commander, because HE should be in charge, not Jon freakin' Snow, the fool who thinks they should team up with the damn wildlings.
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chipotle
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In reply to Quinn • 11:25a, 5/27/15
quote:
Do y'all think we will see the Wall again this season? With Jon leaving to meet up with the people beyond the Wall, I'd be surprised if we saw him back there before 2016.

Here is what I think we will see:
- Jon and the Wildlings meet up and travel
- Stannis vs Boltons at Winterfell
- Arya vs Ser Meran or whatever his name is that is taking the dum dum from the small council to Bravos
- Dany either marrying or killing that Mereen dude
- Dany and Tyrion teaming up or her banishing him
- Religion freaks vs the King
- 10 more Theon scenes, probably

-A long drawn out 20-30 minute talk about emotions/feelings between sam and gilly/
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COOL LASER FALCON
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11:25a, 5/27/15
I think we'll see a little more. I think Gilly is a dead girl walking and that prompts Sam to head to The Citadel and become a Maester.
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Quinn
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In reply to COOL LASER FALCON • 11:27a, 5/27/15
AG
If she gets killed, he ain't making it out of there alive.
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M.C. Swag
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11:29a, 5/27/15
AG
Also, keep in mind that Thorne probably doesn't appreciate taking orders from a perceived child.
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Objective Aggie
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In reply to culdeus • 11:32a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
No story arc has a worse +/- rating than Sam and Gilly. Consistently boring dead end that never moves the plot along.
Disagree, the characters were seen moving along quite nicely in the last episode.
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Ernest Tucker
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In reply to redline248 • 11:33a, 5/27/15
AG
quote:
b/c he was a fat coward that couldn't even stand up and hold a sword. How's he supposed to help defend the realms of men?
And Thorne is overlooking the fact that, while Sam is a fat coward, he has luck on his side.
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Joan Wilder
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11:33a, 5/27/15
AG
My hate of Gilly is approaching Ygrite levels. (I get she was hot but her storyline and dialogue were awful and repetitive) Gilly is a total mouth breather and adds nothing to the plot advancement. I am getting to where I need to leave the room during their scenes. Terribly written female characters and awful acting choices. Frustrating.
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