quote:Tywin would have had their heads on spikes. Every. Single. One.
"what would tywin do"
***** Game of Thrones: Season 5 (TV SHOW ONLY) ***** [STAFF WARNING ON OP]
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Last: 8 yr ago by The Debt
quote:They mentioned in the show that the faith militant was disarmed by the Targs 2 centuries ago (presumably for threatening their rule). These guys have been around a while, but it's been against the law for them to carry weapons. Cersei got Tommen to reverse that law, and let them have some rule of the land and go back to their old traditional role as dogma enforcers...
I think yall are missing a line of dialog that was easily neglected. It was during a small council meeting and they were discussing sparrows. Basically they are commonfolk who have been displaced by the prolonged war. Many of them are family-less, killed in the fighting. All they have is religions now. Orthodoxy is their guiding light, it is also their empowerment versus the nobles who kill/rape.
In short, the Sparrows havent been around long, because its a result of the consequences of the previous 4 seasons. Cercei arming them was just dumb. If she were as smart as she thinks she is, she would put her pride behind her and ask "what would tywin do"
It's backfiring on her and a bunch of other nobles who have flaunted the dogma of the seven.
As mentioned above their ranks have swelled due to the wars and fighting and many young folks being displaced, having no place to turn but the faith, and wanting to revenge the nobles for leading them into the messy conflict in the first place....
I rewatched the ep last night, and noticed they cut to Ollie a couple too many times at Castle Black. They really wanted us to know he's pissed at Jon.
Pretty sure he's gonna end up ****ing things up.
Pretty sure he's gonna end up ****ing things up.
quote:Thought the same thing.
I rewatched the ep last night, and noticed they cut to Ollie a couple too many times at Castle Black. They really wanted us to know he's pissed at Jon.
Pretty sure he's gonna end up ****ing things up.
yeah, that's two episodes now where they keep focusing on Ollie. Definitely setting the table for him to take some action against Jon Snow.
quote:IMO, This has all the workings of the Mutiny at Crasters Keep
I rewatched the ep last night, and noticed they cut to Ollie a couple too many times at Castle Black. They really wanted us to know he's pissed at Jon.
Pretty sure he's gonna end up ****ing things up.
They also included Ollie's family getting killed by wildlings in the 'previously on GOT' scene in one of the last couple episodes. He's definitely going to cause problems.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest. But it did make great dramatic TV, even as I thought it was pretty obvious it was coming. I thought for a minute they would throw her in the same cell with Margery, or just never let her out of that cell when she was talking to her.
Fascinated to see how the Dany/Tyrion/Jorah stuff goes.
San and Gilly can't stay at the wall... curious if he even stays til John gets back or leaves before then. Of course, with all the snow, not sure how they can leave yet... it's a mess they are in.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest. But it did make great dramatic TV, even as I thought it was pretty obvious it was coming. I thought for a minute they would throw her in the same cell with Margery, or just never let her out of that cell when she was talking to her.
Fascinated to see how the Dany/Tyrion/Jorah stuff goes.
San and Gilly can't stay at the wall... curious if he even stays til John gets back or leaves before then. Of course, with all the snow, not sure how they can leave yet... it's a mess they are in.
Yep, thought this a few eps ago. Now it seems fairly certain Ollie will be the one that gets it started.
Jon is in trouble. He better starting knowing things, and soon.
Jon is in trouble. He better starting knowing things, and soon.
quote:I was wondering about this too. He might've known all along, but once Cersei made him High Septon, he probably figured he could use her for information before throwing her in a cell as well.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest.
Either that, or Littlefinger/Olenna were the ones that got Lancel to finally talk.
quote:
Yep, thought this a few eps ago. Now it seems fairly certain Ollie will be the one that gets it started.
Jon is in trouble. He better starting knowing things, and soon.
I like to believe that, if he can unite the wildlings, when he comes back he will outnumber the Nights Watch by a significant margin. I doubt he will foresee his brothers turning on him, but if he does, he will have numbers in his favor and a bunch of men who hate the Nights Watch.
But Jon's not going to try to wage war on the Night's Watch. Totally not his style.
This.
quote:Who's style? Jon the boy or Jon the man?
But Jon's not going to try to wage war on the Night's Watch. Totally not his style.
Jon's not going to wage war on the Night's Watch, but he's not going to stand for people disobeying his orders either.
I wonder if Jon would have what it takes to kill Ollie if he gets a little too mutin-ish.
Which one is Ollie? The little kid?
quote:Or maybe lancel originally confessed to just general sexual deviancy without naming Cersei.quote:I was wondering about this too. He might've known all along, but once Cersei made him High Septon, he probably figured he could use her for information before throwing her in a cell as well.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest.
Either that, or Littlefinger/Olenna were the ones that got Lancel to finally talk.
Definitely not. But I doubt if Ollie does something against him, he does it in some form of open defiance to his face like Slynt did.
Like was said by someone above comparing the brewing situation to Craster's, if something happens to Jon by the men of the Nights Watch, I bet it happens in his back.
Still tough to imagine Jon dying though. The story has definitely set him up as a character to make it to the end, in some form or fashion.
Like was said by someone above comparing the brewing situation to Craster's, if something happens to Jon by the men of the Nights Watch, I bet it happens in his back.
Still tough to imagine Jon dying though. The story has definitely set him up as a character to make it to the end, in some form or fashion.
That's what worries me. Snow/Dany/Tyrion/Arya are basically the "untouchables" of the series, but I really doubt they all make it to the end. It's just not that kind of show.
quote:quote:They mentioned in the show that the faith militant was disarmed by the Targs 2 centuries ago (presumably for threatening their rule). These guys have been around a while, but it's been against the law for them to carry weapons. Cersei got Tommen to reverse that law, and let them have some rule of the land and go back to their old traditional role as dogma enforcers...
I think yall are missing a line of dialog that was easily neglected. It was during a small council meeting and they were discussing sparrows. Basically they are commonfolk who have been displaced by the prolonged war. Many of them are family-less, killed in the fighting. All they have is religions now. Orthodoxy is their guiding light, it is also their empowerment versus the nobles who kill/rape.
In short, the Sparrows havent been around long, because its a result of the consequences of the previous 4 seasons. Cercei arming them was just dumb. If she were as smart as she thinks she is, she would put her pride behind her and ask "what would tywin do"
It's backfiring on her and a bunch of other nobles who have flaunted the dogma of the seven.
As mentioned above their ranks have swelled due to the wars and fighting and many young folks being displaced, having no place to turn but the faith, and wanting to revenge the nobles for leading them into the messy conflict in the first place....
Again, it just seems like a hastily conceived plot device. Whether there's been a ground swell of this group or not, they have been almost entirely absent for 4 seasons and suddenly they wield more power than anyone in all of the lands. What makes this show great is the fleshed out story lines that, while extremely slow-paced at times, create a believable setting. The Baratheons, Targaryns, Starks, etc... have all been fleshed out since Season 1. Even the players getting a lot more screen time like the Boltons have had storylines dating all the way back to the first couple of seasons. It's akin to if the Sand Snakes were somehow some great force that could possibly seize the throne -- but even they (as bad as they are) at least have a storyline connection dating back to a previous seasons.
IMO this season has just been lazy production/writing. Not anywhere close to the standards of previous seasons. Dany still taking 20 minutes each week to deal with things that are ultimately inconsequential (FINALLY she meets up with the imp), another 10 minutes each week hammering home that the Boltons are very bad people, 10 minutes each week with the god awful Sand Snakes storyline (did their scene have any sort of relevance this last week save for tits?), 10 minutes of the Sparrows somehow being the most powerful group in Westeros despite barely being mentioned for 4 seasons and 10 minutes of Arya wandering around in a dark dungeon-esque setting hearing cliche lines about not being ready.
About the only saving grace each episode is Littlefinger's grand scheme and Tyrion Lannister saying just about any kind of dialogue.
This entire season has felt like filler... Incredibly acted filler, but filler.
quote:
Again, it just seems like a hastily conceived plot device. Whether there's been a ground swell of this group or not, they have been almost entirely absent for 4 seasons and suddenly they wield more power than anyone in all of the lands. What makes this show great is the fleshed out story lines that, while extremely slow-paced at times, create a believable setting. The Baratheons, Targaryns, Starks, etc... have all been fleshed out since Season 1. Even the players getting a lot more screen time like the Boltons have had storylines dating all the way back to the first couple of seasons. It's akin to if the Sand Snakes were somehow some great force that could possibly seize the throne -- but even they (as bad as they are) at least have a storyline connection dating back to a previous seasons.
Mostly agree and have felt the same way all season since they decided they could start doing as they pleased. Would never actually happen.
quote:As much as I enjoyed last episode, I have to agree. 75% of this season has felt like water-treading. Each season had gotten progressively better in this show, imo, except for this one.
This entire season has felt like filler... Incredibly acted filler, but filler.
That said, if the last episode is any indication, these last 3 episodes could really turn it around. If they finish the season with 4 great episodes, I'll consider it redeemed.
quote:quote:As much as I enjoyed last episode, I have to agree. 75% of this season has felt like water-treading. Each season had gotten progressively better in this show, imo, except for this one.
This entire season has felt like filler... Incredibly acted filler, but filler.
That said, if the last episode is any indication, these last 3 episodes could really turn it around. If they finish the season with 4 great episodes, I'll consider it redeemed.
Don't get me wrong it's still about the only show i actually tune in for -- but I'm re-watching the first few seasons to catch the SO up and they are all still enjoyable because it seems like nearly every single storyline -- even Arya learning how to swordfight -- are just so interesting.
I love this show. The acting, script, and set designs are spectacular....however, they NEED to fire whoever their fight choreographer is. The mountain and viper duel was amazing but nothing this season has even come close.
The sand snake vs Jaime/Bronn was embarassingly awful.
The pit with jorah was less awful but still a fail.
I just don't see how a show like this can't have better hand to hand combat scenes. (They should use whoever choreographed Netflix's "Daredevil" fight scenes)
The sand snake vs Jaime/Bronn was embarassingly awful.
The pit with jorah was less awful but still a fail.
I just don't see how a show like this can't have better hand to hand combat scenes. (They should use whoever choreographed Netflix's "Daredevil" fight scenes)
quote:I have the same hopes for the last three episodes. I think heads may explode.quote:
That said, if the last episode is any indication, these last 3 episodes could really turn it around. If they finish the season with 4 great episodes, I'll consider it redeemed.
quote:
This entire season has felt like filler...Incredibly acted filler, but filler.
I haven't read the books but I was thinking about it a while back and one of my friends mentioned that the 3rd or 4th book, maybe both, were very slow. Part of the reason I didn't start reading them. It's possible that the slowness or the "filler" feel of this season has to do with them mirroring the books. I know people have
mentioned that they will eventually go away from the books but right now I would imagine that they are still following them somewhat as to not completely loose the book audience if they just go off and change the whole story.
quote:Too soon.
I think heads may explode.
quote:I don't think that Lancel and Cersei doing the horizontal mambo is that big a deal in the Seven Kingdoms. Robert was already dead before they started, and the "incest" issue is minimal, because they are only cousins. During the analogous period in our history, cousins married routinely.quote:Or maybe lancel originally confessed to just general sexual deviancy without naming Cersei.quote:I was wondering about this too. He might've known all along, but once Cersei made him High Septon, he probably figured he could use her for information before throwing her in a cell as well.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest.
Either that, or Littlefinger/Olenna were the ones that got Lancel to finally talk.
I think the larger issue is Cersei's role in the death of King Robert.
Great point.
If that comes out though, you'd have to think the sentence would be death. But I imagine Tommen won't let that happen.
If that comes out though, you'd have to think the sentence would be death. But I imagine Tommen won't let that happen.
How long before somebody grows tired of Littlefinger and kills him? He seems to always be sneaking around in the background and making things happen but sooner or later his spider web of lies and sneakery will catch up to him.
quote:ok I didn't catch that they started sleeping together only after Robert died. I assumed it was ongoing adultery. Seems like it would be very difficult to pin Cersei on being involved in killing Robert. It would be her word against Lancel's, and all she did was tell him to keep him filled with wine during the hunt. I don't believe she straight up ordered him to murder the king.quote:I don't think that Lancel and Cersei doing the horizontal mambo is that big a deal in the Seven Kingdoms. Robert was already dead before they started, and the "incest" issue is minimal, because they are only cousins. During the analogous period in our history, cousins married routinely.quote:Or maybe lancel originally confessed to just general sexual deviancy without naming Cersei.quote:I was wondering about this too. He might've known all along, but once Cersei made him High Septon, he probably figured he could use her for information before throwing her in a cell as well.
The Cersei arrest scene was very confusing... we're led to believe by the conversation between Littlefinger and Lady Tyrell that Littlefinger is giving her the info on Cersei and Lancel... but then the High Sparrow says he's known for a while. I didn't get the point of waiting until now to do that arrest.
Either that, or Littlefinger/Olenna were the ones that got Lancel to finally talk.
I think the larger issue is Cersei's role in the death of King Robert.
quote:As long as all the power brokers feel he is ultimately "on their side" and key to their strategic interests, it will be awhile. Like a marketing guru, He is really really good at manufacturing a need for himself to others.
How long before somebody grows tired of Littlefinger and kills him? He seems to always be sneaking around in the background and making things happen but sooner or later his spider web of lies and sneakery will catch up to him.
I hope Sansa is the one to do it. All of her suffering can be traced back to him.
All this is speculation, we are now way ahead of the books....
I dont think Lancel is the gift LF had for Ollena. This is the exact quote:
LF: I have a gift for you.
O: What kind of gift?
LF: The same kind I gave Cercei. A handsome young man.
Lancel isnt really his to give to the Faith. If Lancel was, he is intending to do the same to Ollena as he did to Cercei. And he is revealing that he is gonna sic the Faith on her.
I think there are a few possibilies:
1) Robbyn Arryn (to marry, possibly Princess Marcella)
2) High Sparrow's son (to hostage)
3) High Sparrow's lover (to wreck the Sparrows)
4) Someone that gets Loras out of trouble (remember Cercei is still betrothed to Loras)(LF saying its a gift to Cercei is him being cute)
Why #1 is a gift to Ollena? The Martells (Snakes/Dorne) and the Tyrells (Flowers/Highgarden) are mortal enemies, they are the two kingdoms of the South and have always been at each others throats. If the Martells get Marcella to marry Tristain, any males that marriage produce are heirs to the thrown. (Assuming Tommen doesnt seed Marg, or dies mysteriously).
If LF can get Marcella to marry Arryn, that will make the Arryn the father of the King (get Marg to kill King Tommen), Highgarden will have marginalized the Martells (and the Lannisters too). Remember what LF said before telling her about his gift "our fates are intertwined". So, I think LF plans to marry Arryn to Marcella, but this leaves him an eligible bachelor (say Marg?). But I wouldnt put it past him to change the cast for the Arryn/Marcella wedding to include himself. Remember he is the Lord of Harrenhall, the largest castle, so he would technically be suitable for a royal wedding.
Just my thoughts.
I dont think Lancel is the gift LF had for Ollena. This is the exact quote:
LF: I have a gift for you.
O: What kind of gift?
LF: The same kind I gave Cercei. A handsome young man.
Lancel isnt really his to give to the Faith. If Lancel was, he is intending to do the same to Ollena as he did to Cercei. And he is revealing that he is gonna sic the Faith on her.
I think there are a few possibilies:
1) Robbyn Arryn (to marry, possibly Princess Marcella)
2) High Sparrow's son (to hostage)
3) High Sparrow's lover (to wreck the Sparrows)
4) Someone that gets Loras out of trouble (remember Cercei is still betrothed to Loras)(LF saying its a gift to Cercei is him being cute)
Why #1 is a gift to Ollena? The Martells (Snakes/Dorne) and the Tyrells (Flowers/Highgarden) are mortal enemies, they are the two kingdoms of the South and have always been at each others throats. If the Martells get Marcella to marry Tristain, any males that marriage produce are heirs to the thrown. (Assuming Tommen doesnt seed Marg, or dies mysteriously).
If LF can get Marcella to marry Arryn, that will make the Arryn the father of the King (get Marg to kill King Tommen), Highgarden will have marginalized the Martells (and the Lannisters too). Remember what LF said before telling her about his gift "our fates are intertwined". So, I think LF plans to marry Arryn to Marcella, but this leaves him an eligible bachelor (say Marg?). But I wouldnt put it past him to change the cast for the Arryn/Marcella wedding to include himself. Remember he is the Lord of Harrenhall, the largest castle, so he would technically be suitable for a royal wedding.
Just my thoughts.
Are we really now ahead of the books?