quote:
The North remembers!
***** Game of Thrones: Season 5 (TV SHOW ONLY) ***** [STAFF WARNING ON OP]
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Last: 8 yr ago by The Debt
Ok, help me out on some of the details -
Why does Arya want to be "no one" and what are the walls of faces for?
Theon hated Sansa, but Reek is feeling bad for her?
Sansa had no say in marrying Ramsey but did it to consolidate power?
Why does Arya want to be "no one" and what are the walls of faces for?
Theon hated Sansa, but Reek is feeling bad for her?
Sansa had no say in marrying Ramsey but did it to consolidate power?
Arya wants to be a faceless man in order to scratch the names off her list. The faces are what they use to disguise themselves.
I think after Theon's whole ordeal he has realized that he actually liked the Starks. They treated him way better than Ramsey.
Sansa doesn't really have a choice.
I think after Theon's whole ordeal he has realized that he actually liked the Starks. They treated him way better than Ramsey.
Sansa doesn't really have a choice.
quote:I didn't know Theon hated Sansa, but it's been a long show. I know he wasn't a huge fan of being the Stark's ward once his father tore him down, but I don't think he hated Sansa specifically. Reek feels bad for her because he's not as sadistic as Ramsey, and a lot of the "old Theon" has been broken out of him by Ramsey. He knows Sansa. Probably knows that Ramsey forcing others to watch them is mortifying for her. While Theon was a ******, I never got the idea that he enjoyed hurting others for sport.
Ok, help me out on some of the details -
Why does Arya want to be "no one" and what are the walls of faces for?
Theon hated Sansa, but Reek is feeling bad for her?
Sansa had no say in marrying Ramsey but did it to consolidate power?
Sansa had no say because she hasn't had any say since Ned died. She's been a pawn that has had to do whatever the person who "held her captive" wanted her to do. Littlefinger may not be torturing her like Cersei and Joffrey, but he isn't trying to make her happy. He's using her to further his power.
I don't think Theon hated Sansa or any other Stark. After going home, he realized just how poorly his own family treated him. He only betrayed the Starks and "took" Winterfell as a last ditch effort to please his father. That's why he could not actually kill / burn Bran and Rickon.
During Ramsey's fake rescue, Theon admitted that the Starks were his real family and that his real father died in King's Landing.
His interactions with Sansa now show nothing but shame and remorse, not hate.
During Ramsey's fake rescue, Theon admitted that the Starks were his real family and that his real father died in King's Landing.
His interactions with Sansa now show nothing but shame and remorse, not hate.
Can someone remind me what Theon's sister is doing right now in the show?
Last we saw, she ran away from Ramsey's men and dogs after she found Theon locked in the dog kennels.
I assume she's retreated back to the Iron Islands. I remember the Greyjoys had taken control of a couple of coastal towns, but I think the Boltons chased them off. If they have any mainland presence, it certainly hasn't been discussed in ages. Frankly, I assume the Greyjoys as a family will have no more relevance to the story, unless they pop back up following Theon dying in some Ramsay assassination plot/escape attempt with Sansa.
quote:and Gendry for that matter
Can someone remind me what Theon's sister is doing right now in the show?
Gendry befell a storm at sea, and fell overboard where he was eaten by a whale, whole, and he is now living inside the whale's belly, Disney animated Pinocchio-style, complete with a candle he has been able to light that lets him view his surroundings.
Yeah, I'm thinking the Greyjoys are out of the picture the rest of the way. They had their run, got beaten down, and Theon basically rejected rescue. i think they are done as any kind of factor to the story.
We aren't the only ones who hate the Sand Snakes. The GOT FB page just posted about them and they are getting roasted. Comparing them to the Power Rangers fighting scenes.
quote:Ha, that's a great comparison, hadn't thought about that. Hopefully they go away by the end of this season.
We aren't the only ones who hate the Sand Snakes. The GOT FB page just posted about them and they are getting roasted. Comparing them to the Power Rangers fighting scenes.
The Sand Snakes are just awful. I got the feeling that book readers were excited to see them on screen. They must have felt a big letdown.
quote:If I had any idea what you were talking about, I'd say you were absolutely right. But, of course, I don't.
The Sand Snakes are just awful. I got the feeling that book readers were excited to see them on screen. They must have felt a big letdown.
The Dragon Bran podcast made an interesting point. Was Sansa actually raped if she never said no and didn't try to physically resist?
Technically they're right. Cersei and Jaime was more rape than this, but this one was much more brutal to see.
Technically they're right. Cersei and Jaime was more rape than this, but this one was much more brutal to see.
Agreed. I think it goes back to what was posted earlier in the thread. It would be considered rape IRL, but not in Westeros..
quote:For sex to not be rape, one has to "give consent". Often, that's a reciprocation of intimacy. On the flip side, we tend to view "no" as the line between rape and not rape. But what happens in a situation where if one protests, then they most likely undergo a worse outcome than just sex?
The Dragon Bran podcast made an interesting point. Was Sansa actually raped if she never said no and didn't try to physically resist?
Technically they're right. Cersei and Jaime was more rape than this, but this one was much more brutal to see.
So if we are talking legal definitions, I don't know. Not a lawyer. But to me, if I'm in a situation where saying "no" would most likely result in a more negative outcome, so I don't say "no", I would still view that as rape. A man holding a knife to one's throat and threatening that if you cry/scream/say no he kills you, for instance. It's still rape even though "she never said no".
So then the argument becomes, would Ramsey have hurt her if she had refused? I say most likely, but he wasn't holding Sansa down with the threat of a knife or anything. I just feel we know enough about Ramsey to know he wouldn't tolerate Sansa refusing.
But, "legally", I don't know how strong that is, more just a moral designation in my mind. And all of this is with the frame of reference of modern treatment of rape. Obviously in Westeros/ancient times/different religions, a man having sex with his wife, no matter if she refused, is not rape from what I understand.
quote:Would it though? In some cultures (whoever still does arranged marriages), it might not be.
It would be considered rape IRL
Well morally, no question. Rape.
Women are viewed as property in Westeros and in the Middle Ages. Sure some, like Dany, can make decisions, but they will always bend to the will of their husband. A husband can't rape his wife at this point in time any more than he could rape his couch.
quote:
Well morally, no question. Rape.
Yes but I have no idea how, legally, the circumstances ("no" not being tolerated) would play into rape vs not rape since Ramsey, technically, didn't explicitly threaten her. Sansa just knew she didn't have a choice. So does a lack of a choice constitute rape, legally, in modern American society?
I don't know the answer there.
I think/hope most people agree that it wasn't rape according to Westerosi law.
I guess rape is such as hot button topic, and increasingly so in these last few years, that this is inevitable, but I don't get the volume or interest in dissecting whether a sex scene in a fictional tv show is considered rape or not. I thought the same when there was much ado over the Jamie/Cersei scene. Rape, being a legal construct and all, just seems like an odd discussion angle to go at this from.
I believe the ultimate goal of the Greyjoys and the Ironborn is to have independence in the Iron Islands. Theon's father wants to be named king of the iron islands and left out of westeros affairs I think. That's why he rebelled against King Robert. Then I believe he attacked the North in season 2 to force independence. I could be wrong.
So I could see them leveraging an alliance with Stannis, Lannisters or the Vale in exchange for independence.
No way they work with the Boltons after all the flaying. Stannis would never allow them to have independence ("bend the knee or die" ). Insert Littlefinger or Kevan Lannister to broker a deal.
So I could see them leveraging an alliance with Stannis, Lannisters or the Vale in exchange for independence.
No way they work with the Boltons after all the flaying. Stannis would never allow them to have independence ("bend the knee or die" ). Insert Littlefinger or Kevan Lannister to broker a deal.
He attacked the North because he saw that the North was weak and undefended. Essentially, he did it because he could. By no means would attacking Stark lands have forced the hand a Lannister king to give him independence.
But their ultimate goal is to stay in the Iron Islands. They're not wanting to rule the North. Attacking the North was a way to force recognition of the Kingdom of the Iron Islands.
The funny thing, to me, is that they have that rule about earning things the "iron way," or whatever. Do they really earn their independence by attacking a few towns and the ruler of the 7 kingdoms just giving it to them without a fight?
yeah, Theon has no peenis and his dad has no balls. He talks tough but keeps getting punked.
Sansa had no choice and couldn't physically fight back, but there's no way she consented to being treated like that - clothes ripped off, forcibly entered, with Reek there to watch her humiliation. That was awful.
I can't figure out what her plan was, in agreeing to marry Ramsey. At what point does she stop being a pawn in other people's games?
Tyrion has to be setting a record for most-captured guy in Westeros
I can't figure out what her plan was, in agreeing to marry Ramsey. At what point does she stop being a pawn in other people's games?
Tyrion has to be setting a record for most-captured guy in Westeros
In my opinion, she Is 3 steps ahead, knew this was coming, and is lulling Ramsey into complacency before she takes the Noeth for herself
quote:I want to support this theory so bad, but this is GOT.
In my opinion, she Is 3 steps ahead, knew this was coming, and is lulling Ramsey into complacency before she takes the Noeth for herself
The best Sansa can do is endure Ramsey long enough to sabotage Winterfell's defenses when Stannis finally arrives.
quote:You know who's get a great plan brewing? That Ned Stark fellow. I bet he's five steps ahead of that bimbo Cersei....
In my opinion, she Is 3 steps ahead, knew this was coming, and is lulling Ramsey into complacency before she takes the Noeth for herself
quote:She's banking on being made Wardeness of the North if Stannis defeats the Boltons, right?
I can't figure out what her plan was, in agreeing to marry Ramsey. At what point does she stop being a pawn in other people's games?
Yes, Littlefinger tells her exactly this before leaving for King's Landing. A more "on-the-nose" conversation than we usually get in this show.
quote:
In my opinion, she Is 3 steps ahead, knew this was coming, and is lulling Ramsey into complacency before she takes the Noeth for herself
Man, I do not see that at all. She was forced into this by Lil' fing (even if he presented it as a "choice"), and she has never shown the propensity to be a master planner. She might get rescued by Stannis and all the wal mart greeters of Winterfell, but it won't be her own scheming that does it.
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