Ned was always very cryptic about Jon, and combined with an unknown backstory about Lyanna, Robert Baratheon, and the Targaryans that is obviously out there, I can see someone reasonably making this speculation (I'm show only and have found myself doing it). I do think it's been pretty clear for a long time that Jon isn't Ned's or some run-of-the-mill bastage and likely has some connection to royalty, be it Baratheon or Targaryan. And my money would absolutely be on Targaryan. The Baratheon bastage thing has been done. This one is more complex/mysterious and Maester Aemon's involvement points that direction too. They've gone from subtle speculation to pretty much hitting the audience in the face with clues at this point.
***** Game of Thrones: Season 5 (TV SHOW ONLY) ***** [STAFF WARNING ON OP]
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Last: 8 yr ago by The Debt
quote:
What was it about season 1 & 2 that made her come up with it Ol Jock?
- Jon is a super intriguing character and has been since day 1.
- Totally out of character for Ned.
- Ned refusing to talk to Robert about Jon's mom. Would he do that about some random girl before a battle?
- Lots of focus on R & L, outside of "this is what pissed Robert off".
- Someone (early season 2 I believe, probably Littlefinger or Varys, but don't recall) suggested that L might have well been willing captive.
- Doc Jock is one of the smartest folks I know, and when she gets hooked on a show, she really pays attention and thinks about it.
Another clue this season was right after Littlefinger and Sansa talk about the incidents with Rhaegar and Lyanna (down in the tomb), Stannis tells his wife (who was bad mouthing Jon being a *******) that Ned Stark wasn't the kind of man to have flings with tavern women. Thus implying that Jon wasn't Ned's *******....but someone of great importance to Ned.
As far as Ol Jock's wife goes, people have been theorizing on the show only threads since season 1 or 2 that perhaps Jon wasn't Ned's. I'm not sure if who the actual parents are was ever narrowed down to anyone in particular, but I know Robert was thrown out as a possible father due to so much being made of all of his children scattered around.
As far as Ol Jock's wife goes, people have been theorizing on the show only threads since season 1 or 2 that perhaps Jon wasn't Ned's. I'm not sure if who the actual parents are was ever narrowed down to anyone in particular, but I know Robert was thrown out as a possible father due to so much being made of all of his children scattered around.
I think this theory is fair game since it's still theory for everyone.
And honestly, it makes perfect sense. Weiss and Benioff are always talking about how in their first meeting with GRRM, he asked them who Jon's mother was as a "test" to see if they could make the show, and they answered correctly. They've never come out and said Lyanna Stark, but after these last few episodes, it's pretty obvious.
The interesting thing is, the show could end up confirming this before the books do.
What would really throw everyone for a loop would be if GRRM changes it in the books just to **** with everyone.
And honestly, it makes perfect sense. Weiss and Benioff are always talking about how in their first meeting with GRRM, he asked them who Jon's mother was as a "test" to see if they could make the show, and they answered correctly. They've never come out and said Lyanna Stark, but after these last few episodes, it's pretty obvious.
The interesting thing is, the show could end up confirming this before the books do.
What would really throw everyone for a loop would be if GRRM changes it in the books just to **** with everyone.
quote:
I have only seen the show and would not have guessed said theory unless I was looking for it. The clues are only huge to book readers.
Yeah some of these "obvious" clues like John walking into a room when a name is said are about as obvious as nibler pushing fry in the first Futurama episode.
quote:
I think this theory is fair game since it's still theory for everyone.
And honestly, it makes perfect sense. Weiss and Benioff are always talking about how in their first meeting with GRRM, he asked them who Jon's mother was as a "test" to see if they could make the show, and they answered correctly. They've never come out and said Lyanna Stark, but after these last few episodes, it's pretty obvious.
The interesting thing is, the show could end up confirming this before the books do.
What would really throw everyone for a loop would be if GRRM changes it in the books just to **** with everyone.
I'd never heard that story before (about him testing them).
Interesting.
The really intriguing question is --
If he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, would he have a legitimate claim to the throne over Dany?
If he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, would he have a legitimate claim to the throne over Dany?
No.
he gave that up when he said the words
he gave that up when he said the words
quote:I never thought he was a ******* Baratheon. Ned and Robert refuse to talk about Jon. If it was just Ned taking care of Roberts son, then they would have had conversation about it.
I hadn't tuned into the importance of Rhaegar to the backstory of the overall series arc until these recent events. Until then I was going with Jon as another ******* son of Robert Barathron.
quote:Exactly.
No.
he gave that up when he said the words
quote:I think Jon would be able to give up being lord commander to be the official protector of the realm.
No.
he gave that up when he said the words
I had never really put this together but I did start thinking about Lyanna having some sort of major hidden importance after yet another scene down in the crypts with Sansa and Littlefinger.
Well that part is obvious. I mean if he hadn't taken the black.
Meta-theory - IF the white walkers get defeated and IF the wildlings are integrated into society....would the night's watch be disbanded? If so, could Jon take the throne?
Jon takes the throne when he marries Dany after she protects Kings Landing from the White Walkers with her dragons that Bran wargs while Tyrion rides one of them.
quote:The wall will be gone after Dany's dragons melt it down. No need for the Night's Watch.
Meta-theory - IF the white walkers get defeated and IF the wildlings are integrated into society....would the night's watch be disbanded? If so, could Jon take the throne?
quote:My thoughts as well, but the discussion since your post lead to to believe otherwise now. I've been telling my wife all along that I thought he was a Baratheon. It appears that I am probably wrong. Of course, it may well just be a red herring. We may all be wrong and it plays no importance whatsoever but I don't think so.
I hadn't tuned into the importance of Rhaegar to the backstory of the overall series arc until these recent events. Until then I was going with Jon as another ******* son of Robert Barathron.
I can't see Jon marrying Dany since her womb is barren. You gotta produce heirs.
I rewatched part of season 1 earlier this spring and one conversation stands out to me that confirms Jon is not Robert's.
When they leave Winterfell and travel to Kings Landing, Robert and Ned have lunch out in a pasture and the subject of Jon comes up. Robert asks Ned who Jon's mother was and the way he's talking about him, it's pretty clear that he's not Robert's and Robert obviously thinks Jon is Ned's.
At the very least it was a ******* that Robert had no knowledge of....his or any else's.
When they leave Winterfell and travel to Kings Landing, Robert and Ned have lunch out in a pasture and the subject of Jon comes up. Robert asks Ned who Jon's mother was and the way he's talking about him, it's pretty clear that he's not Robert's and Robert obviously thinks Jon is Ned's.
At the very least it was a ******* that Robert had no knowledge of....his or any else's.
quote:
I can't see Jon marrying Dany since her womb is barren. You gotta produce heirs.
If Jon is a Targaryean and he ends up marrying his Aunt Dany, then George RR is one sick ****er and we've all been victims of the greatest troll job in TV history.
Did you miss the episodes where Jaime tries to get Cersei to be open about their relationship b/c the Targaryens wed brother to sister for years?
quote:
Did you miss the episodes where Jaime tries to get Cersei to be open about their relationship b/c the Targaryens wed brother to sister for years?
No I didn't and the whole incest thing is disgusting.
oh, I took your previous post to mean that the incest thing was coming out of nowhere. Meaning if it happened he'd be a sick f_ck, rather than he's already a sick f_ck for including it in the story.
That's an odd reaction to have about a show that has featured incest front and center since episode 1.
Oh my post was a joke. I do think that those two (J-Snow and Dany) make it to the end, but they probably won't get married.
No I'm saying if he circles back to incest as one of the conclusions of the series, then hes a sick ****er. It was hard enough getting past it season 1.
I'm going to skeet so hard when a white walker finally takes one step past the wall.
quote:
No I didn't and the whole incest thing is disgusting.
Not sure how to respond to this.
I could go the joke
Incest is best, put your sister to the test.
Or the old Cajun/redneck/etc joke
If she ain't good enough for her family, she ain't good enough for ours
Or
So adam and ever and Noah's families disgust you?
But the greatest troll of TV history was the entire series that was called Lost.
quote:Is it? I thought she lost the baby with Drogo because that crazy witch lady cursed her or something. Something about a life for a life; she would save Drogo, but the cost would be another life. She technically saved Drogo, but he ended up a vegetable, and the cost was the baby's life. She screwed Dany twice. Or something... Or maybe she just cursed the baby?
I can't see Jon marrying Dany since her womb is barren. You gotta produce heirs.
Is that right, or am I way off?
I never got the impression that she was completely barren. Maybe I'm forgetting something else.
That's always been my impression as well.
To answer your question, no.
Does the incest in Game of Thrones disgust or bother you in any way?
Does the incest in Game of Thrones disgust or bother you in any way?
quote:
What would really throw everyone for a loop would be if GRRM changes it in the books just to **** with everyone.
I think it's fairly obvious that R+L=J is correct, and I am anxious to see if GRRM pulls a Lost and changes it because he's mad that everyone figured it out.
quote:
To answer your question, no.
Does the incest in Game of Thrones disgust or bother you in any way?
No more than the insect in the bible bothers me.
If it was good enough for noah, his kids, Adam's kids, Lot's kids or a few others, I don't see why it would be an issue in this story.
And really the incest is the least offensive vice on the show.
All cases have been show to be consenting relationships.
The rape, the pedoes, the killing for the sake of killing the mutilation for no reason etc etc etc and a consenting relationship that has been common among ruling families throughout almost all of history isn't that bad in comparison.
All cases have been show to be consenting relationships.
The rape, the pedoes, the killing for the sake of killing the mutilation for no reason etc etc etc and a consenting relationship that has been common among ruling families throughout almost all of history isn't that bad in comparison.
Speaking of Trolls, Dany is trolling Mereen hard. Darrio is reminding her that she is a badass and the mother of Dragons. They just killed one of her best friends and is stepping all over her rule. I bet she is doing the long con with marrying this dude and the fighting pits. I bet she unleashes some whoop ass at her own wedding, or I could be wrong and she is just lost and confused as we think she is.
But all of this reminds me of the first slave city that she over took, where we thought she trading her dragons for the Unki, then boom, Dracaras! Fire everywhere....
But all of this reminds me of the first slave city that she over took, where we thought she trading her dragons for the Unki, then boom, Dracaras! Fire everywhere....