I'd say Thor 1 & Spider Man was a pretty big tone shift too.
*** MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE *** [Staff message on OP]
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86% rt score is pretty good
AliasMan02 said:
I have a theory y'all can help me put through the wringer:
The best (or maybe "most loved") Marvel movies are those that introduce a tonal shift. They subvert expectations in some way and stand out because they are fresh, but within the MCU context.
- Iron Man was the OG, set a new bar
- Avengers broke out of fairly standard origin stories into the pithy team-up
- Winter Soldier, the 70s spy thriller
- Guardians, the zany and irreverent one
Ragnarok, the biggest "combo breaker" of them all
- Black Panther, I realize not a favorite of many here but definitely one of the most believed Marvel films
-IW, obviously
Does this hold up?
What does "most believed Marvel films" mean?
Beloved - typo
Bruce Almighty said:
Beloved - typo
Ah gotcha. Couldn't figure it out.
Sine poena nulla lex.
C@LAg said:
it is definitely not the most "beloved".
It is by many, many, many people.
bangobango said:AliasMan02 said:
I have a theory y'all can help me put through the wringer:
The best (or maybe "most loved") Marvel movies are those that introduce a tonal shift. They subvert expectations in some way and stand out because they are fresh, but within the MCU context.
- Iron Man was the OG, set a new bar
- Avengers broke out of fairly standard origin stories into the pithy team-up
- Winter Soldier, the 70s spy thriller
- Guardians, the zany and irreverent one
Ragnarok, the biggest "combo breaker" of them all
- Black Panther, I realize not a favorite of many here but definitely one of the most believed Marvel films
-IW, obviously
Does this hold up?
What does "most believed Marvel films" mean?
This definitely holds up. It's the reason people love Empire Strikes Back, Wrath of Kahn, The Dark Knight, etc. - people love to watch heroes fail, so that they can rise again. When Marvel gets into that comfortable Dr.Strange, Thor, Captain Marvel probably, it's just not as compelling. Don't get me wrong, I really like all of those films, but those are the ones that adhere more directly to the Marvel house style to stand out.
My guess is mostly non-comic (or cbm) fans.
Brian Earl Spilner said:
My guess is mostly non-comic (or cbm) fans.
They count, though.
I wouldn't say Thor, introduced a bit of humor but stuck pretty close to the Marvel formula to that point. Homecoming definitely brought a bit of teen rom com to the MCU.Farmer1906 said:
I'd say Thor 1 & Spider Man was a pretty big tone shift too.
I don't know about the theory itself, but Winter Soldier, Guardians, Black Panther, and Ragnarok are all solidly in my top 5.
The ranking differences for Black Panther (#1 on RT and Metacritic, 13/14 by IMDB/Fans) is the most bizarre and fascinating thing. Every day viewers don't think of that movie nearly as highly as industry types.
Looks like Infinity War is getting a similar treatment in the opposite, although not nearly as drastic. Infinity War is a much better movie than Black Panther.
Looks like Infinity War is getting a similar treatment in the opposite, although not nearly as drastic. Infinity War is a much better movie than Black Panther.
Opinions vary.
I am about to finish up my full rewatching of the MCU with my wife. We rated each movie as we've watched them. Her highest score is for Black Panther yet it doesn't crack my top 10.
I am about to finish up my full rewatching of the MCU with my wife. We rated each movie as we've watched them. Her highest score is for Black Panther yet it doesn't crack my top 10.
I have zero faith in any sort of public rating of a film like Black Panther at this point.redline248 said:
The ranking differences for Black Panther (#1 on RT and Metacritic, 13/14 by IMDB/Fans) is the most bizarre and fascinating thing. Every day viewers don't think of that movie nearly as highly as industry types.
Lots of people loved it when it came out (and still do) and then there's strings of 1 star ratings on sites like IMDB. Even if you didn't love it or even like it, it's far from a 1 star movie and those are obviously people trying to torpedo the rating.
True, outliers definitely exist. The RT fan score, though, is still nearly an 80. Which means people like it, but just not so much to call it the best in the MCU. I honestly think we are about to see a similar phenomenon with Captain Marvel.
It'll be good, and I'll enjoy it. Will it be lauded as the best ever, even if it's just mediocre? We'll see.
It'll be good, and I'll enjoy it. Will it be lauded as the best ever, even if it's just mediocre? We'll see.
we need a Texags Entertainment Board rating system
As I've said before, I really think (due to the battle in Wakanda in Infinity War) that Black Panther could have been so much better. All they'd need to do was split it into two movies.
Essentially take the battle for the throne between Black Panther and Killmonger, and make that the end of the first movie. Add in stuff about Killmonger going to Wakanda and garnering support secretly from tribes who see agree with his philosophy. Then they fight and Killmonger throws Black Panther off a freaking cliff, and assumes the mantle. Movie ends.
Second movie: Essentially the last act of the movie. Killmonger is gathering weapons to use against the world. Black Panther is now underground with limited support and has to crawl his way back with the support of his sister and mother. He eventually gains back the powers and the final battle of the first movie is the final battle of the second.
Essentially take the battle for the throne between Black Panther and Killmonger, and make that the end of the first movie. Add in stuff about Killmonger going to Wakanda and garnering support secretly from tribes who see agree with his philosophy. Then they fight and Killmonger throws Black Panther off a freaking cliff, and assumes the mantle. Movie ends.
Second movie: Essentially the last act of the movie. Killmonger is gathering weapons to use against the world. Black Panther is now underground with limited support and has to crawl his way back with the support of his sister and mother. He eventually gains back the powers and the final battle of the first movie is the final battle of the second.
as a standalone Black Panther story, that sounds cool and i'd be on board.jtstanley4621 said:
As I've said before, I really think (due to the battle in Wakanda in Infinity War) that Black Panther could have been so much better. All they'd need to do was split it into two movies.
Essentially take the battle for the throne between Black Panther and Killmonger, and make that the end of the first movie. Add in stuff about Killmonger going to Wakanda and garnering support secretly from tribes who see agree with his philosophy. Then they fight and Killmonger throws Black Panther off a freaking cliff, and assumes the mantle. Movie ends.
Second movie: Essentially the last act of the movie. Killmonger is gathering weapons to use against the world. Black Panther is now underground with limited support and has to crawl his way back with the support of his sister and mother. He eventually gains back the powers and the final battle of the first movie is the final battle of the second.
but in the larger MCU context, i'm not sure it works unless you write black panther (and wakanda) out of infinity war entirely
Right yeah. That's why I said it's basically Infinity War's fault. The battle there was epic, but with him being in the movie they were pretty much gonna have to make Black Panther tie up neatly before Infinity War.
AliasMan02 said:Brian Earl Spilner said:
My guess is mostly non-comic (or cbm) fans.
They count, though.
Sine poena nulla lex.
Letterboxd or IMDb should allow you to create "Groups" where members can rate movies and you can see a score based just off of that, instead of everyone with an internet connection.jackie childs said:
we need a Texags Entertainment Board rating system
I wonder why that hasn't been done yet.
C@LAg said:it really is not.AliasMan02 said:C@LAg said:
it is definitely not the most "beloved".
It is by many, many, many people.
it might be their favorite, but not "beloved".
Black Panther is the clear favorite of a huge number of people. This is a weird hair to try and split. It's an incredibly important movie to a lot of people.
And more to the point, it seems to me that its tonal shift is easy to point to as to why it is so beloved by so many. It stands out in many ways, and that led to a #3 all time domestic gross.
I'm having trouble thinking about the tonal shift that Black Panther had. Can you elaborate what you mean?
The fact that BP beat IW domestically but lost by $700MM internationally shows that there were some strong demographic and media factors at work.
I agree, somewhat, but I do know plenty of the opposite demographic that regard Black Panther as their favorite superhero movie.
I'm not a fan, for the record
I'm not a fan, for the record
yukmonkey said:
The fact that BP beat IW domestically but lost by $700MM internationally shows that there were some strong demographic and media factors at work.
I recently took the kids to Disneyland. Photos with Capt America and Spider-Man had a 15-20 min wait. Black panther was standing around waiting for people to come up. We literally walked up with no one else around and got a pic with him.
Well, Cap and Spidey have been around and VERY popular for years, esp Spidey, before the MCU came along. BP was a fringe character at best, IIRC, unless it's been within the past 10 years or so.TexasAggie_02 said:yukmonkey said:
The fact that BP beat IW domestically but lost by $700MM internationally shows that there were some strong demographic and media factors at work.
I recently took the kids to Disneyland. Photos with Capt America and Spider-Man had a 15-20 min wait. Black panther was standing around waiting for people to come up. We literally walked up with no one else around and got a pic with him.
They're all gonna get blown out of the water by Iron Man IV: Demon in a Bottle
They already used up (wasted) that storyline in IM2Social Media Influencer said:
They're all gonna get blown out of the water by Iron Man IV: Demon in a Bottle
Ever seen the line for the two princesses from "Frozen"? Expect to wait around for about 3-4 hours.MooreTrucker said:Well, Cap and Spidey have been around and VERY popular for years, esp Spidey, before the MCU came along. BP was a fringe character at best, IIRC, unless it's been within the past 10 years or so.TexasAggie_02 said:yukmonkey said:
The fact that BP beat IW domestically but lost by $700MM internationally shows that there were some strong demographic and media factors at work.
I recently took the kids to Disneyland. Photos with Capt America and Spider-Man had a 15-20 min wait. Black panther was standing around waiting for people to come up. We literally walked up with no one else around and got a pic with him.
Sine poena nulla lex.
I'll take Le Tit, Go for $600, Alex.
Oui, oui!C@LAg said:#LetItGo.GiveEmHellBill said:Ever seen the line for the two princesses from "Frozen"? Expect to wait around for about 3-4 hours.MooreTrucker said:Well, Cap and Spidey have been around and VERY popular for years, esp Spidey, before the MCU came along. BP was a fringe character at best, IIRC, unless it's been within the past 10 years or so.TexasAggie_02 said:yukmonkey said:
The fact that BP beat IW domestically but lost by $700MM internationally shows that there were some strong demographic and media factors at work.
I recently took the kids to Disneyland. Photos with Capt America and Spider-Man had a 15-20 min wait. Black panther was standing around waiting for people to come up. We literally walked up with no one else around and got a pic with him.
Which when written like that could be read "Le tit, go!"
Dude.....too soon.Brian Earl Spilner said:
I'll take Le Tit, Go for $600, Alex.
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