Star Wars Discussion Thread

4,227,006 Views | 36522 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by gougler08
Flashdiaz
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didn't understand Doku and Vader accepting of someone else when everyone knows about the rule of 2.

it's like your wife wanted to experiment with bringing in someone else to the bedroom. Long term won't end well with someone being left out.
powerbelly
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Flashdiaz said:

didn't understand Doku and Vader accepting of someone else when everyone knows about the rule of 2.

it's like your wife wanted to experiment with bringing in someone else to the bedroom. Long term won't end well with someone being left out.
They all think they will kill their master when the time is right.
Flashdiaz
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right, but it should be kept a secret until then.

Take Emperor, Vader and Luke. Emperor and Vader talk about turning Luke. Both should know the plan is to kill the other. why pretend they're going to be a happy trio?
Quad Dog
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Bait and switch. Lure Luke in with a false happy trio. Then once he's corrupted they reveal their real plans to kill the Emperor or Vader and team up with Luke.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Palps and Vader definitely knew what was up.

Dooku clearly didn't. The look on his face when he Sheev orders Anakin to kill him is a look of incredulity.

I have always wondered why that is. As someone who hasn't seen all of Clone Wars, did Dooku not realize how far along Palpatine's plan was with Anakin? Or did he just not know period?
bluefire579
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Palps and Vader definitely knew what was up.

Dooku clearly didn't. The look on his face when he Sheev orders Anakin to kill him is a look of incredulity.

I have always wondered why that is. As someone who hasn't seen all of Clone Wars, did Dooku not realize how far along Palpatine's plan was with Anakin? Or did he just not know period?
He was more focused on his own ambitions, which blinded him to Palp's. He had two apprentices of his own, plus tried to get Obi Wan to join him in AotC, and I *think* he tried to get Anakin to join him at one point in CW, but could be misremembering.
hunter2012
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I believe in the novels Dooku was happy being an apprentice and wanted mainly to remove the Jedi as the Republic's enforcers because of his disillusionment of the Jedi order. He believed he was serving the greater good so he would've welcomed more allies(Anakin). However, Palps disliked that he did not have ambitions to be the master(thus breaking the spirit of the rule of 2) and sought Anakin as his replacement.
redline248
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Regarding Luke, Vader, Palpatine...Rule of Two had not been created by Lucas, yet (I don't think). Although, Vader basically told Luke right away they could kill the emperor and rule together. I don't think that means Vader would have expected Luke to eventually find a replacement and kill him, though.

I think we can assume at time of original trilogy Palps was always looking for a newer model. He told Luke right in front of Vader to take his place.
OnlyForNow
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I always felt like Dooku and Palps, strictly in the movie vein, weren't seeing eye to eye. The scene where Dooku is talking to Obi Wan when he is in the energy tube thingy, ATOC, doesn't seem like he is trying to trick him into anything. He would gain nothing from that.

I think he legit wanted Obi Wan to join him and destroy Palps and reset the Jedi order as well.

I think he (Dooku) wasn't really a true believer in the Sith mantra, but enjoyed both sides of the force.


Dooku also trained Ventress right? Why wasn't she ever a part of the movies? Adds too many moving parts??
Farmer1906
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OnlyForNow said:

I always felt like Dooku and Palps, strictly in the movie vein, weren't seeing eye to eye. The scene where Dooku is talking to Obi Wan when he is in the energy tube thingy, ATOC, doesn't seem like he is trying to trick him into anything. He would gain nothing from that.

I think he legit wanted Obi Wan to join him and destroy Palps and reset the Jedi order as well.

I think he (Dooku) wasn't really a true believer in the Sith mantra, but enjoyed both sides of the force.


Dooku also trained Ventress right? Why wasn't she ever a part of the movies? Adds too many moving parts??
She was great in both clone war series.
I Have Spoken
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I gave up trying to figure out Dooku solely from his actions in the movies.
hunter2012
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I Have Spoken said:

I gave up trying to figure out Dooku solely from his actions in the movies.
The Plaguis novel describes him best if my memory serves correctly. He basically wanted Palps to be a benevolent dictator and saw being a Sith as a means to the end being galactic peace and expose the Jedi as the corrupt organization that they were. He no ambition as dictated by the rule of 2.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I've seen Attack of the Clones maybe more than anyone on this thread, and I couldn't tell you for the life of me what Dooku's plan was in that movie by telling Obi-Wan the truth about Sidious.

I'm sure it's probably explained in the novelization or CW, but based just on the movie, it's impossible to say.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Unrelated --

The Marvel thread got me thinking. Do we have anyone on this board that attended the 1976 Comic Con where Star Wars was first introduced to the world?

If anyone did, come claim your insane nerd cred now.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/comic-cons-first-star-wars-panel-1976-was-a-sleepy-affiar-1022849/



TCTTS
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Ha, that's so awesome.
twilly
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

Unrelated --

The Marvel thread got me thinking. Do we have anyone on this board that attended the 1976 Comic Con where Star Wars was first introduced to the world?

If anyone did, come claim your insane nerd cred now.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/comic-cons-first-star-wars-panel-1976-was-a-sleepy-affiar-1022849/




Here is the poster they sold at the con for $1.75

It might cost you a little bit more than that today.
SoulSlaveAG2005
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twilly said:

Brian Earl Spilner said:

Unrelated --

The Marvel thread got me thinking. Do we have anyone on this board that attended the 1976 Comic Con where Star Wars was first introduced to the world?

If anyone did, come claim your insane nerd cred now.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/comic-cons-first-star-wars-panel-1976-was-a-sleepy-affiar-1022849/




Here is the poster they sold at the con for $1.75

It might cost you a little bit more than that today.



Lightsabers are too thin. 1/10 would not own
/Spilner
Ulrich
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On the rule of two, Sith make rules but they don't follow them unless it's convenient. So even if there is a rule of two, they'll break it any time they perceive a net benefit to doing so.
maca1028
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Doing a rewatch of the last 4 episodes of TCW. The score is among the best in SW.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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hunter2012 said:

I Have Spoken said:

I gave up trying to figure out Dooku solely from his actions in the movies.
The Plaguis novel describes him best if my memory serves correctly. He basically wanted Palps to be a benevolent dictator and saw being a Sith as a means to the end being galactic peace and expose the Jedi as the corrupt organization that they were. He no ambition as dictated by the rule of 2.
The Plagueis novel ends with Sidious very tempted to reveal himself to Dooku in his Palpatine guise right after the events on Naboo and the death of Qui-Gon and Maul.

In the brilliant novelization of ROTS, Dooku's line of thinking and the lies that Palpatine has told him are fleshed out in a really grand way by author Matthew Stover. Palpatine's vision for Dooku is a series of events where they get Anakin and Obi-Wan on the Malevolence, Dooku kills Obi-Wan to tip Anakin to the dark side and then "allows himself" to be defeated and captured, thus ending the war.

Although I don't think it appears on the page, presumably Dooku knows about Order 66 because in his internal monologue, Palpatine's vision is that he rules the galaxy without ever revealing the Sith aspect of his personality, Dooku replaces Yoda as Grand Master of the Jedi, and Anakin becomes basically what Maul was - the fist of Palpatine, except instead of acting alone he'll be at the head of first a clone army and eventually a Sith army. Dooku is cast as hating aliens other than the humans and that's why he roped all the alien races together into the Separatists - to wipe them all out of power and existence. Dooku will guide the future Jedi in his waning years but change the doctrine to be Sith teachings instead.

Dooku is actually a lot like Anakin in this version in that he knows how powerful he is, feels he's being held back, and seeks more ways to acquire more power. Dooku feels he's the #2 Jedi behind only Yoda but feels Yoda is holding back teachings, so his logical decision is to seek out whomever the Sith Lord is to learn it, and use that power to bring order to the galaxy. He joins the Sith as a means to an end, then tries to recruit Obi-Wan to overthrow Sidious in AOTC because he was planning to recruit Qui-Gon to do the same before his death. Obi-Wan is roughly Qui-Gon's surrogate son in Dooku's eyes.

Even literally moments before Anakin and Obi-Wan arrive to "save" Palpy, Dooku is trying to convince him to use Obi-Wan instead of Anakin in his plan, but Palps says Obi-Wan is too indoctrinated into Yoda's thinking.

When they fight, the author describes Dooku as having grown a lot more powerful as a Sith, able to draw from its energy outside of himself during fights despite his age. He can also "see" other Force users based on how they use it. He describes Obi-Wan as pure sunshine (not Trevor Lawrence), Anakin as storm clouds with lightning flashing around them, and Palpatine as something like a black hole - nothing in or out, indescribable.

After he knocks Obi-Wan unconscious, he taunts Anakin about Padme and Anakin is raging but totally afraid and Dooku is whipping his ass until Palpatine tells Anakin to give in to his feelings. When Dooku looks at Anakin again through the Force, he describes him as being akin to a "furnace" - just getting hotter as time goes on and of course soon after he cuts Dooku's hands off.

In the closing of the chapter right before Anakin cuts his head off, there's a great line where Dooku says something like "He realized his destiny was not to save the galaxy or rebuild the Sith, his destiny had always been to be the first cold-blooded murder victim of Anakin Skywalker."

PatAg
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Brian Earl Spilner said:


Unrelated, but that line and "ah, but you have heard of me" are probably two of the more iconic lines since 2000, right?
jokershady
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Quote:


In the closing of the chapter right before Anakin cuts his head off, there's a great line where Dooku says something like "He realized his destiny was not to save the galaxy or rebuild the Sith, his destiny had always been to be the first cold-blooded murder victim of Anakin Skywalker."


the sand people women and children from AOTC says hi
Brian Earl Spilner
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I always love reading these excerpts describing the fights from their internal perspectives in such awesome detail. Especially the Palps vs Mace fight.

And yes, Mace won that fight.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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jokershady said:

Quote:


In the closing of the chapter right before Anakin cuts his head off, there's a great line where Dooku says something like "He realized his destiny was not to save the galaxy or rebuild the Sith, his destiny had always been to be the first cold-blooded murder victim of Anakin Skywalker."


the sand people women and children from AOTC says hi
Bleah, they don't count. They're like animals.

OnlyForNow
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It's actually my favorite of the pre-triology.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It was actually my favorite before ROTS came out, but over the years TPM has climbed above it for me, and maybe even over ROTS as well.

Kind of depends on mood. But point being, TPM has just gotten better for me for whatever reason.

And it sucks that it's the only one Lucas shot on film, because that's the only one we could ever get in true 4K quality.
MGS
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jokershady said:

Quote:


In the closing of the chapter right before Anakin cuts his head off, there's a great line where Dooku says something like "He realized his destiny was not to save the galaxy or rebuild the Sith, his destiny had always been to be the first cold-blooded murder victim of Anakin Skywalker."


the sand people women and children from AOTC says hi


Wasn't cold-blooded, he was in rage because of the death of his mother. He killed Dooku because Palpatine asked him to do it.
redline248
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I still prefer Revenge over Phantom over Clones. It's too bad the digital effects haven't held up.
Fat Bib Fortuna
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Phantom Menace has become my favorite by far of the prequels.

Best soundtrack.

Best individual acting performance of the PT (Liam Neeson)

Really great buildup of Maul - the hologram, then the balcony, then his getting to Tatooine, the 30-second fight with Qui-Gon, then the full reveal on Naboo.

Really great opening sequence - right up until I see Jar Jar and say "oh yeah, that's why I don't watch this every day.

Establishing tension in the Jedi Council, even between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's relationship.

R2D2 and C3PO both get great intros and neither is unbelievably powerful or stupid (looking at you AOTC).

Just a taste of the awesomeness of Mace Windu.


if they had everything specifically laid out for the next two, it would have been great to have cast Dooku and have him be on the council and at Qui-Gon's funeral, but that's the breaks.

My biggest problem with AOTC is how static a lot of it seems. Total blue/green screen environments and too many young actors - Portman, Hayden, Daniel Logan - just saying their lines without much inflection or emotion. Not to mention other than Jango, you don't meet Dooku until at least an hour into the movie and don't see Sidious in his gear until the very end.
powerbelly
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Agree with everything you said.
AliasMan02
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Fat Bib Fortuna
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AliasMan02 said:


Back when they thought that was going to be the end of it, they gave the author some leeway with a bit of the back story, including:

Extended Luke/Obi-Wan convo on Dagobah

"You should not think of that machine as your father." It was the teacher speaking again. "When I saw what has become of him, I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought your father fell into a molten pit. When your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him foreverhe was Darth Vader., without a trace of Anakin Skywalker. Irredeemably dark. Scarred. Kept alive only by machinery and his own black will "

Obi-Wan tells Luke that he and Leia's mother died when they were 4, and that Anakin didn't even know she was pregnant.

Palpy orders Moff Jerjrrod to turn the Death Star to fire on Endor, knowing Luke's friends are there.

Palpy probes Luke's mind to find out who taught him after Obi-Wan, and discovering it was Yoda, mocks the way Yoda talks a little.

And my favorite line of the book, that I wish had been in the movie, when Luke shows up to join the mission to Endor, everyone turns and sees him, and the chapter finishes with "Cheers went up for the last of the Jedi."
Brian Earl Spilner
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The Leia remembering Padme plot hole still bugs me.
redline248
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Brian Earl Spilner said:

The Leia remembering Padme plot hole still bugs me.
No, you mean the prequels having Padme die at child birth bugs you. That's the damn plot hole
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