Star Wars Discussion Thread

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TCTTS
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Somewhat interesting thread...

Brian Earl Spilner
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And now ROTJ is a bad movie?? Wow....
Has anyone actually said this?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Absolutely. Wookiees would've been cool, and they are physically imposing enough to believably defeat a legion of stormtroopers.
Brian Earl Spilner
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And for the record, this is probably the fourth or fifth time this particular discussion has been had on this thread.

But I'm just glad to finally break out of the feedback loop for TLJ that's been perpetuated by a few posters in particular for the past three months.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Is it because so many of you grew up on the prequels that you value ROTS so highly? Like someone pointed out, yes, ROTS is the best of the prequels, but that was a really freakin' low bar to get over. And now ROTJ is a bad movie?? Wow....
I value ROTS slightly more than ROTJ for a number of reasons, most notably because it did depict the ultimate fall of Anakin Skywalker, "birth" of Darth Vader and that epic duel between mentor and padawan. Oh and by the way, I was 9 when Star Wars first came out, 10 when I finally saw it, so I grew up on the OT.

Never seen it said that Jedi is bad, but I have seen ROTJ lambasted for the Ewoks. Hell, when I left the Lake Theater on May 25, 1983 in Lake Jackson, TX, after having just seen it, I was conflicted over whether I even liked the movie or not simply because of those g***mned teddy bears. The opening Jabba sequence and the final big act involving capital ships, the Death Star, Vader, Luke and the Emperor, and Han Solo copping a feel ultimately overrode my irritation with the Ewoks, though, and I decided that Jedi was quite a great movie. Still hate the Ewoks more so than Jar Jar, but Rose is giving the teddy bears a run for their money here.
fig96
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All the New Things We Learned From the Star Wars: The Last Jedi Blu-Ray

Everything Rian Johnson Has Been Forced to Explain About The Last Jedi (So Far)
redline248
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Ewoks worse than Jar Jar? I mean, the ewoks were capable of building elaborate traps/snares...and you know...could actually walk without falling over. And weren't cowardly little *****es, either.
Brian Earl Spilner
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redline248
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Feel like this needs to be shared here...

dromo07
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Before he even wrote the movie, writer-director Rian Johnson had these very specific ideas in his head: The idea of a casino planet where the one percent of the Star Wars universe lives.
No wonder this wasn't considered on the chopping block
amercer
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Well this should make fanboy heads explode all over the galaxy...

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While writing, Johnson considered having Luke use the Force for some massive attack at the end, but felt it went against his idea that the Force is not a superpower.
dromo07
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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redline248 said:

Ewoks worse than Jar Jar? I mean, the ewoks were capable of building elaborate traps/snares...and you know...could actually walk without falling over. And weren't cowardly little *****es, either.
Absolutely. You know that little kids have known about teddy bears for many, many years. Yet to ole George, he thought he had something new for people. I could never buy the notion of cuddly teddy bears setting all those traps, I mean, they felled all those trees and were able to pull them high enough into the trees to be able to smash a chicken walker! Goodness, that is awful. Had George simply gone with Wookiees, I would have bought into that entire aspect of Jedi. Jar Jar was a mental midget and a klutz, but he was far more important to the overall SW universe than this fierce bunch of teddy bears - he was the easily susceptible fool who was manipulated into requesting ultimate power for the chancellor.
TCTTS
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This has been chronicled a dozen times in this thread alone. Lucas couldn't have "simply gone with Wookies." He wanted to and he tried but doing so was too expensive. That's WHY we got Ewoks. They were discount Wookies, essentially.

Not every decision on a movie is creative. So many compromises constantly have to be made and more often than not those compromises result in less than optimal situations.
Solo Tetherball Champ
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TCTTS said:

This has been chronicled a dozen times in this thread alone. Lucas couldn't have "simply gone with Wookies." He wanted to and he tried but doing so was too expensive. That's WHY we got Ewoks. They were discount Wookies, essentially.

Not every decision on a movie is creative. So many compromises constantly have to be made and more often than not those compromises result in less than optimal situations.
I haven't heard this before.

Can you elaborate on this? Assuming all other set pieces are identical: how is finding a bunch of dwarfs and dressing them up as teddy bears cheap, but finding tall people and putting them in walking carpet outfits expensive?
Zombie Jon Snow
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Solo Tetherball Champ said:

TCTTS said:

This has been chronicled a dozen times in this thread alone. Lucas couldn't have "simply gone with Wookies." He wanted to and he tried but doing so was too expensive. That's WHY we got Ewoks. They were discount Wookies, essentially.

Not every decision on a movie is creative. So many compromises constantly have to be made and more often than not those compromises result in less than optimal situations.
I haven't heard this before.

Can you elaborate on this? Assuming all other set pieces are identical: how is finding a bunch of dwarfs and dressing them up as teddy bears cheap, but finding tall people and putting them in walking carpet outfits expensive?

Wasn't budgetary from what I've heard.

But more a combination of these:
1. wanted a more primitive species and wookies (via Chewy) seemed too advanced technoogically
2. wanted more of an underdog role/appearance - wookies are imposing
3. marketability - ewoks are cute, wookies are scary



TCTTS
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So it seems the story has been muddied/conflated over the years. Here's the real reason...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/how-the-ewoks-in-return-of-the-jedi-started-out-as-wookiees-122043597.html
TCTTS
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i.e. they were too expensive for the FIRST Star Wars movie.
TV Casualty
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Toptierag2018 said:

Random SW thought: one of my personal biggest issues with the series right now is the lack of serious enemies. In the OT you had the Emperor, Vadar, and numerous Generals in the Empire.

At the end of TLJ all that we saw left was an underpowered Ren (compared to Vadar) and an embarrassingly weak character in Hux. That's it. That's the entire dark side of the force (except for those filthy rich capitalists in casino world).


Yep, the handling of the vilians has really hurt this trilogy and the prequels as well.

Ren was initially promising with the force freeze of the laser blast in that first scene. Unfortunately they turned him into the punk ***** of the galaxy after that. Even a wuss like Hux isn't afraid of Ren and is always punking him.

Rey exceeded Ren's skills with the force in one day. It really makes zero sense why Luke would go into hiding when the first order is largely pathetic and Ren is no threat.
redline248
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amercer said:

Well this should make fanboy heads explode all over the galaxy...

Quote:

While writing, Johnson considered having Luke use the Force for some massive attack at the end, but felt it went against his idea that the Force is not a superpower.



That's funny, considering Kylo and Snoke demonstrate more power with the force than any of the greatest Sith/Jedi we know about. Hell, Rey is more powerful than was Luke at the end of Empire. JJ unlocked that particular door, and Rian kicked it off the hinges.
TV Casualty
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TCTTS said:

So it seems the story has been muddied/conflated over the years. Here's the real reason...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/how-the-ewoks-in-return-of-the-jedi-started-out-as-wookiees-122043597.html



Sounds like he changed his mind by the time he got to ROTJ and used Chewy as an excuse not to use Wookies. A Wookie planet wouldn't have been enough of an underdog in his mind.

It sure would have been a lot cooler for the fans of Star Wars though.
CJS4715
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While it is funny that Ewoks did help take down the Empire, it's worse that Jar Jar brought forward a motion to bring about the Emperor's rule over the galaxy.
TCTTS
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Am I the only one who actually likes Ewoks? Granted, I haven't seen ROTJ in years, but I've never had a problem with them. Sure, they're a little too "cute," and it's unbelievable that they could take down a portion of the Empire, but the whole ordeal is so fun and charming that it makes up for any believability issues. That, and I think the Endor forest setting makes for such a great set piece, one we hadn't seen in that world up until that point. I also love their treehouse complex, and the scene of C-3PO basically acting out Star Wars to an Ewok audience is so great.

Leading up to Episode IX, I'm going to rewatch every movie again, so I'll give an updated verdict then, but as now, so much of what I remember of ROTJ - from the Tatooine/Jabba first act, to Endor, to the epic Luke/Vader/Palpatine - is just so incredibly iconic in the best ways that I've never really had a problem with any of it.
Chipotlemonger
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I too have never had a problem with them like some on here. I swear that Ewoks must have hurt some of y'all's family members or something with how much hate there is for them.
redline248
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I have no problem with Ewoks, nor do I find it unreasonable that they could succeed in guerrilla warfare vs Imperial troops.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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TCTTS said:

This has been chronicled a dozen times in this thread alone. Lucas couldn't have "simply gone with Wookies." He wanted to and he tried but doing so was too expensive. That's WHY we got Ewoks. They were discount Wookies, essentially.

Not every decision on a movie is creative. So many compromises constantly have to be made and more often than not those compromises result in less than optimal situations.
I'm very much aware of why he went with Ewoks. I get it, but on the other hand, Star Wars was the most profitable movie ever made up until ET, and he did quite well with Empire and Raiders as well. He would have been better served in spending whatever it would have cost to go with Wookies.
amercer
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redline248 said:

I have no problem with Ewoks, nor do I find it unreasonable that they could succeed in guerrilla warfare vs Imperial troops.


Plus their actions in the battle of Endor lead to their complete eradication after RTJ, so the haters should really show some respect.
FancyKetchup14
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I loved the Ewoks as a kid. I thought they were awesome. Don't have a problem with them present day, either.
Brian Earl Spilner
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but as now, so much of what I remember of ROTJ - from the Tatooine/Jabba first act, to Endor, to the epic Luke/Vader/Palpatine - is just so incredibly iconic in the best ways that I've never really had a problem with any of it.


That's basically what I meant when I mentioned nostalgia.

People accuse me of being overly-nostalgic towards the prequels (which I don't dispute), but a lot of the flaws in the OT (mostly in ROTJ) are overlooked because of the iconic status of the movies.

Personally, I think the popular opinion on ROTJ is helped by the almost universal love for ANH and ESB, with the opposite being true for ROTS.

Of course, there's no quantifiable evidence for any of this, these are just my thoughts.
CJS4715
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SeattleAgJr
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the music mix in that is way too high, but otherwise not bad
CJS4715
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SeattleAgJr said:

the music mix in that is way too high, but otherwise not bad


Yes, it's real bad when Rey's grandma gets slaughtered.
dromo07
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Oh you!

So is the chosen one prophecy all done with?
SeattleAgJr
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dromo07 said:

Oh you!

So is the chosen one prophecy all done with?
yes. it was over with Vader & Luke..
the prophecy was the destruction of the Sith which Luke/Vader brought about.
dromo07
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Dammit and here I thought all the episodes had to do with the "chosen one"
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