Star Wars Discussion Thread

Rex Racer
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quote:
I think had Palpatine successfully lured Luke to the Dark Side, he would have had Luke kill Vader much as he had Anakin kill Dooku. Or Vader, if he could have lured Luke to the Dark Side, would have used him to kill Palpatine.

This. Vader proposes this to Luke in Empire, and the Emporer proposes it to Luke in Jedi.
AliasMan02
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quote:
I think had Palpatine successfully lured Luke to the Dark Side, he would have had Luke kill Vader much as he had Anakin kill Dooku. Or Vader, if he could have lured Luke to the Dark Side, would have used him to kill Palpatine.


No doubt. All the more reason that if there was a rule of two, Vader and Palpatine wouldn't have been openly discussing recruiting Luke.
Brian Earl Spilner
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They are attracted to power. There's no loyalty. That's the way of the Sith.
Duncan Idaho
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quote:
They are attracted to power. There's no loyalty. That's the way of the Sith.

Having a random Jedi go Rogue and start following the ways of an ancient sith order that was focused on enslavement of weaker races to gain power makes sense and is a compelling story that could go on indefinitely. Think a Shaolin monk getting frustrated and following the tenants of an legendary force centered Sparta because he sees it as the only way the bring order and his sense of justice to the universe.


A self centered guy on a power trip thSt takes a single apprentice that he knows will kill him, just doesn't make any sense. Someone like this would pick the most powerful apprentice they could find that was slightly less powerful than they were and keep a few secrets back. As a result each generation would become slightly weaker and less knowledgeable. Eventually making them no more than an annoying jack ass causing trouble.

Simplebay
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In some of the dialogue they really make it sound design like Sith is just the empire. That's why they keep calling a REAL Sith a Dark Jedi.

But I'm not current on what or what is not canon
Duncan Idaho
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is the lego star wars series worth watching?
redline248
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The whole idea was to teach the apprentice everything the master knew, not to hold back any knowledge. The ultimate goal was destruction of the Jedi and control of the galaxy. That isn't accomplished by by picking a weak apprentice and withholding knowledge.
Iowaggie
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Doesn't appear to be a fan
double aught
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I find that guy's writing style quite annoying. Couldn't finish the article.
fig96
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quote:
have to say that I felt that George's group of six films had more innovative visual imagination and this film was more of a retrenchment to things you had seen before and characters you had seen before and it took a few baby steps forward.
Dances With Wolves says hi.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Loved TFA, but he's not wrong. The prequels were a bit more innovative and inventive, visually speaking. I think that's what he's talking about.
AliasMan02
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quote:
Loved TFA, but he's not wrong. The prequels were a bit more innovative and inventive, visually speaking. I think that's what he's talking about.


And to accomplish that visual innovation, they filmed the whole movie in front of a tiny green screen, leading to the now-famous "sit on a couch" exposition scenes that RLM highlighted.
Brian Earl Spilner
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A lot of the CGI looks dated now, but those movies did more to push the technology forward than most movies of its era, like LOTR and Avatar did.

TFA was more of a throwback to the old days of practical effects and real locations. (Which I enjoyed as well.)

That is the main thing Cameron is saying. He's the kind of guy who puts visuals ahead of story, similarly to how people see Lucas as well. Most people really liked TFA, but it will never be mentioned as a particularly influential movie in the world of visual effects like say, Phantom Menace, The Matrix, LOTR, Avatar, etc.

And I can agree with most people that called the movie "safe". But I am hoping (and expecting) that Rian Johnson will take the saga in an exciting/dark/unexpected direction, like Empire did.
Duncan Idaho
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FYI - Plastic Galaxy is a pretty good documentary about the original toys. Not great but fun if you loved the toys as a kid.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3648510/

It is on amazon prime. Not sure about netflix
fig96
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The problem is that Cameron wants him to do it just to do it. There wasn't any reason for Abrams to come up with some revolution in VFX to tell the story he wants to tell.

Lucas did push things forward with digital filmmaking on TPM, but Weta and Peter Jackson took those techniques and used them much more effectively and believably just a year or two later. As mentioned, it's story over the visuals.

I'd actually argue that Abrams did innovate in his use of practical effects like on BB-8. There's also not a lot that can't be done at this point, VFX are much more evolutionary than revolutionary now.
fig96
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Also, I'm just waiting for someone to bring up these comments to Abrams in an interview and have him respond with a snarky Unobtainium comment
Farmer1906
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I am sorry, but what? TFA was fantastic visually. The awards back me up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accolades_received_by_Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens
Brian Earl Spilner
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You completely missed my point.
Brian Earl Spilner
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I agree with all that. Like I said, Cameron is a visuals over storytelling kind of guy. I didn't say Abrams was wrong to go the route he did.
Farmer1906
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You completely missed my point.
Their balance of CGI, practical, and immersing the viewer in to the world was spot on. Seems like it could influence movies to not go over the top CGI.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Again, completely arguing another point.

I think TFA looked fantastic.
Farmer1906
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quote:
Again, completely arguing another point.

I think TFA looked fantastic.
You're saying it isn't as influential. I say it is. Seems pretty simple.
fig96
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quote:
quote:
Again, completely arguing another point.

I think TFA looked fantastic.
You're saying it isn't as influential. I say it is. Seems pretty simple.
What did it influence? It won some awards, but there wasn't anything especially groundbreaking with their VFX.
Farmer1906
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Correction. Will be influential.
CJS4715
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Hopefully it helps influence less CGI in blockbuster films.
Brian Earl Spilner
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It's not going to be the game changer that many other films have been. And that's not a knock on TFA, it's just facts. Not sure why you feel the need to argue otherwise to make some kind of point.

Fact is, TPM and the other movies I've mentioned were pushing the limits of what was possible at the time. TFA really didn't do anything new. (Which was a conscious decision by Abrams.) And granted, it's much tougher to innovate now that basically nothing is impossible to do.
Ulrich
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It can be influential without being revolutionary. I didn't walk away from TFA feeling like I had seen anything new, but if it gives us more reality in sci-fi movies I'll be happy that it had some influence.
YellowPot_97
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quote:
Exactly.

Originally, Obi-Wan was in hiding, hence the billowy robe and hood. But then Lucas decided to make the robe and hood the official uniform of the Jedi for the prequels, which makes no sense. Retroactively, it essentially turned A New Hope's Obi-Wan into a cop-in-hiding who was still wearing his police uniform. Granted, it IS a fairly nondescript uniform, but still.
disagree

AliasMan02
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So he retroactively decided at the end of Jedi. Still ridiculous and lame.
fig96
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I feel like you're kind of reaching here to try to make a point.

It's possible that TFA will have some influence on future scifi films, but that isn't what the film was about and that's fine. It did what it did very well.
Ulrich
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I'm not sure which part you're taking exception too.

If it's the idea that TFA is influential, I don't know that it WILL be influential, but since I feel like practical effects make for better, realer movies, I hope it's part of a trend. I think my first post was fairly ambivalent on whether it is influential.


And if your complaint is that I am splitting hairs... yeah, probably.
redline248
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quote:
So he retroactively decided at the end of Jedi. Still ridiculous and lame.
Here's Yoda from Empire. His cloak and tunic are basically the same. So now will it be "well Lucas decided AFTER the original," that makes it lame for Jedi to have dressed the same?





edit: added 2nd picture:
redline248
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Also, I was wrong about my previous statement on Uncle Owen dressing the same as Obi-Wan. It's similar, but Obi-Wan's is more robe and Owen's is more shirt.



Brian Earl Spilner
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10 days till Celebration.

IMO, this is what we're most likely to get:


  • New trailer for Rogue One (Vader appearance for sure)
  • Description and full title of the Han solo movie, maybe some concept art, and an appearance by Alden Ehrenreich
  • Title for Episode VIII, appearance by Mark, Daisy, and John Boyega, and possibly a teaser poster. (Though it still seems early for that.)
  • Surprise announcement of an Obi-Wan trilogy with an appearance by Ewan McGregor
CJS4715
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quote:
New trailer for Rogue One (Vader appearance for sure)


I hope so. Making the Vader news official before Celebration definitely served a purpose.

The closing ceremony is 3:00 - 4:30 on Sunday in London, so happy Sunday morning to all of us.
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