Star Wars Discussion Thread

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jabberwalkie09
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Awesome! Interesting that they put in Battle of Heroes in this trailer for the second half. Perhaps......



There will be a face off of sorts between the new heroes? Betrayal by someone?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Yeah, loved the music choice. Say what you will about the prequels but the soundtracks are amazing. Right up there with the OT music.
jabberwalkie09
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The scores from the PT is what I remember most liking about the entire trilogy. That and ROTS actually brought out the Anakin we had been waiting two movies to finally see. I look back at the PT and see that The Phantom Menace was largely non-essential to the PT, and that the story of Anakin really began in Attack of the Clones. The most important part of his story from The Phantom Menace was really that he was a slave. I remember reading either a blog posting or something that mentioned that the story may have been significantly better if Anakin had been discovered some other way, like if he had been an actual pilot where his skills were almost of legend and had been slightly older than when we first met him.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Clones should've been Episode I, I agree. Episode II could've been a more in-depth film about the Clone Wars and actually shown us Anakin being a badass pilot and some of his adventures with Obi Wan. (Like the opening battle in ROTS.)

Only thing I can't decide on is what the climax to that movie would've been.
AliasMan02
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quote:
Clones should've been Episode I, I agree. Episode II could've been a more in-depth film about the Clone Wars and actually shown us Anakin being a badass pilot and some of his adventures with Obi Wan. (Like the opening battle in ROTS.)

Only thing I can't decide on is what the climax to that movie would've been.


Rescue of Palpatine and Anakin killing Tyrannis.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Not bad. And right when Padme announces she's pregnant as well.
AliasMan02
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I think you could make a good argument that Anakin should have been the villain of Episode 3.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Yep. I'd have Padme giving birth as the opening of ROTS, and dying in childbirth as he had foreseen. (Not from "grief" as she did. Seriously?)

A broken Anakin falls to the dark side within the first hour of the film, and you have the battle with Obi-Wan at about the halfway point of the film. The second half could be Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. Maybe he actually goes to Tatooine too look for the children. (Is there an explanation in the EU as to why Vader wouldn't think to look for the kid at the Lars' home?)
AliasMan02
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quote:
Yep. I'd have Padme giving birth as the opening of ROTS, and dying in childbirth as he had foreseen. (Not from "grief" as she did. Seriously?)

A broken Anakin falls to the dark side within the first hour of the film, and you have the battle with Obi-Wan at about the halfway point of the film. The second half could be Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. Maybe he actually goes to Tatooine too look for the children. (Is there an explanation in the EU as to why Vader wouldn't think to look for the kid at the Lars' home?)


He only knew of the one baby, and he was told that it died.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Ah. I know he thinks he killed Padme but since they never mentioned the baby I wasn't sure if he thought the kid died as well.

That is a pretty major complaint for me, Vader should be able to feel that his child(ren) is alive via the Force.
AliasMan02
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Ah. I know he thinks he killed Padme but since they never mentioned the baby I wasn't sure if he thought the kid died as well.

That is a pretty major complaint for me, Vader should be able to feel that his child(ren) is alive via the Force.


They were only really able to sense each other when close by, though, and then it doesn't seem like they usually could tell specific people based on their "presence" unless they had a close relationship. Vader sensed Obi-Wan on the Death Star. Ashoka and Vader sensed each other in Rebels.

Force use seems to also be a factor. Vader couldn't sense a relationship with Leia when he tortured her. He couldn't sense anything particular about Luke at the first Death Star until Luke started to use the Force.

It is a bit inconsistent, though
Knife_Party
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Maybe. Sidious operated right under the nose of Yoda and crew for decades. Perhaps one of Obi Wan's purposes on Tatooine was to somehow cloud the force around Luke so that he couldn't be sensed (in addition to keeping him out of trouble like we see him do in E4).
Champ Bailey
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The biggest gaping plot hole to me is that Anakin only really joined the dark side to save Padme, and then he ends up killing her. And then after he hears he killed her, he sticks around with the Emperor instead of being pissed off that Palpatine's influence made him kill her. There just doesn't seem like that good of a reason for Vader to stick around and serve Palpatine after Padme dies based on the story they presented us.
jabberwalkie09
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quote:
quote:
Yep. I'd have Padme giving birth as the opening of ROTS, and dying in childbirth as he had foreseen. (Not from "grief" as she did. Seriously?)

A broken Anakin falls to the dark side within the first hour of the film, and you have the battle with Obi-Wan at about the halfway point of the film. The second half could be Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi. Maybe he actually goes to Tatooine too look for the children. (Is there an explanation in the EU as to why Vader wouldn't think to look for the kid at the Lars' home?)


He only knew of the one baby, and he was told that it died.
I think that him hunting for the remaining Jedi would have made for a compelling ending rather than having him stand on the bridge of a Star Destroyer looking at the under construction Death Star. Starting ROTS there and them moving on would have also allowed for Lucas to expand on the attack on the Jedi Temple and perhaps explored the clones a bit more or if they had been introduced in TPM done that when.

One of the criticisms that TCW draws is the introduction of the bio-chips to explain the actions of the clones in ROTS as it serves as more of an on/off switch to explain their obedience as in the series the clones had developed pretty distinct personalities. It also may have allowed for a deeper explanation of the origin of the clones in the films as opposed to having an arc dealing with the clones and the Order 66 conspiracy.

On an unrelated note, I believe it was in the Vader comics (not reading them so I just read what others post about it) where he went back to Tatooine to cut ties from his old self fully. I can't remember if that was before or after he found out about Luke being the one who destroyed the Death Star but I think it was before. Someone posted the panel from that comic where Fett told Vader "Skywalker."
AliasMan02
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quote:
The biggest gaping plot hole to me is that Anakin only really joined the dark side to save Padme, and then he ends up killing her. And then after he hears he killed her, he sticks around with the Emperor instead of being pissed off that Palpatine's influence made him kill her. There just doesn't seem like that good of a reason for Vader to stick around and serve Palpatine after Padme dies based on the story they presented us.


Anakin's fall really should have been him succumbing to his anger. Competition/jealousy of Obi-Wan, the futility of the war when a strong hand could bring order, and a few too many loved ones lost along the way.
jabberwalkie09
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The Empire under Palpatine made no bones about what it wanted to accomplish. With the destruction of the Jedi Order, the Empire providing the only stabilizing force, ironically through force and fear, in the galaxy to bring order to the chaos that existed during the Clone Wars. To me, the PT Jedi were pretty much the opposite side of the same coin when it comes to the Sith during that era. Though the Jedi said they would stay out of politics, they increasingly became involved in politics through the course of the films.
Knife_Party
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I always thought that Anakin's character should have been portrayed in such a way that each movie goer would have left the theater thinking "In his shoes, I would have become Darth Vader too." Lucas really ****ed it up.
AliasMan02
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In Sith Lords, Palpatine is very concerned with Vader destroying his past, at least emotionally. They often talk about what Vader is thinking about and how it affects him.

That book is very worth reading just to get a glimpse into that relationship, and for the great descriptions about the Dark Side and how Vader taps into it. Heir to the Jedi isn't as good, but does have the high point of describing Luke learning to use the Force and how he does it, especially since he often fails.

The greatest moment of Heir to the Jedi is (no spoilers) when Luke is reaching out and having trouble sensing where some people are around him. When something suddenly happens that makes him angry, he can suddenly see EXACTLY where everyone is with crystal clarity. It gives an appreciation for how easy it would be to fall.
Brian Earl Spilner
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quote:
The greatest moment of Heir to the Jedi is (no spoilers) when Luke is reaching out and having trouble sensing where some people are around him. When something suddenly happens that makes him angry, he can suddenly see EXACTLY where everyone is with crystal clarity. It gives an appreciation for how easy it would be to fall.
Wow, that does sound cool. That would've been great to see in the films.
jr15aggie
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quote:
quote:
The biggest gaping plot hole to me is that Anakin only really joined the dark side to save Padme, and then he ends up killing her. And then after he hears he killed her, he sticks around with the Emperor instead of being pissed off that Palpatine's influence made him kill her. There just doesn't seem like that good of a reason for Vader to stick around and serve Palpatine after Padme dies based on the story they presented us.


Anakin's fall really should have been him succumbing to his anger. Competition/jealousy of Obi-Wan, the futility of the war when a strong hand could bring order, and a few too many loved ones lost along the way.


That would have been awesome! But his love of things soft and smooth was also pretty cool too!
jabberwalkie09
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Anakin's fall really should have been him succumbing to his anger. Competition/jealousy of Obi-Wan, the futility of the war when a strong hand could bring order, and a few too many loved ones lost along the way.
You know, now that Vader has been introduced on Rebels and that the Emperor and Vader apparently plan to use Ahsoka to find the remaining Jedi, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point when there is a confrontation between Vader and her where he tries to extract information relating to Kenobi's location. Since Kenobi was the one who defeated him on Mustafar, I think that makes sense.
Duncan Idaho
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Am I alone in wishing for a reboot of the prequels?
Bruce Almighty
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Probably in the minority. I think they should just focus on new ideas.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Am I alone in wishing for a reboot of the prequels?
We can talk about how we would improve them till the cows come home, but they are canon. You can't go back and redo canon, it would basically be an alternative SW universe at that point.
jabberwalkie09
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I don't think they will touch the PT era again any time soon film wise. There is just too much based on the PT story to discard it without having to completely redefine that era of canon. I do hope that they do something in the Old Republic era, around the same time as the KOTOR games. That seems like a well of untapped potential to mine there. In the Legends there is the Mandalorian Wars they could do. The Mandalorians are still largely a mystery, and the Mandalorians from TCW were supposed to be pacifists..... That didn't last long IIRC.
Brian Earl Spilner
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Old Republic era would be awesome to see.

And as far as the Prequel era, they could easily have some anthology films that take place in that era, as opposed to redoing the prequels. Those alone could vastly improve the story.
Champ Bailey
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I think an awesome movie would be the downfall of the Sith empire. And have the main character be one of the Sith. That is when the rule of two was introduced right?
MuckRaker96
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quote:
The biggest gaping plot hole to me is that Anakin only really joined the dark side to save Padme, and then he ends up killing her. And then after he hears he killed her, he sticks around with the Emperor instead of being pissed off that Palpatine's influence made him kill her. There just doesn't seem like that good of a reason for Vader to stick around and serve Palpatine after Padme dies based on the story they presented us.
In the novelization of ROTS, which is excellent by the way, when Vader hears she's dead, he "reaches out" towards Palpatine in the Force, only to realize that his own powers are greatly diminished now that he's half-cyborg, and that even if he wanted to kill Palps, he's no longer strong enough to do it. So what other choice does he have but to serve?
Brian Earl Spilner
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Does Anakin's force power diminish due to losing so many midichlorians?
Knife_Party
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Imo one of the things that makes Vader's turn so unbelievable is the horribly underdeveloped relationship between him and Palpatine. They are supposed to be friends but we don't see the kind of chemistry and caring on screen that should have been there. The set up is supposed to be choose your good friend or the jedi and you wife and child's life hangs in the balance. Because we don't see this relationship portrayed on screen the choice seems weird and unbelievable. It doesn't help that Anakin comes off creepy as **** in E2 and 3. *******it Lucas.
Texags is garbage
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Kept trying to put 'Akbar' on that quiz, then threw a hail mary and decided to try 'It's a trap'. Bonus Points?
MuckRaker96
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agreed, they could have put in 3 extra scenes of anakin and palps talking throughout AOTC and 3 more in ROTS and made it a whole lot more believable. Extra nuances like Palps telling him in AOTC, "I forsee you becoming more powerful than any Jedi, even Master Yoda" ... you gotta expound on those! Have Palps give Anakin some moral questions to work over in his head and lead him down the road of "might = right". But I could write a 10,000 word post about scenes that would have improved those films.

On the plus side, the Korean Force Awakens teaser gives us a previously-unseen shot of the First Order.

MuckRaker96
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40/40 with 3:40 left

As I tell all my friends, I don't need to get a life, I already have one in a galaxy far, far away.
twilly
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TCTTS
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Just a reminder, D23 is this weekend in Anaheim and Abrams & co will be hosting yet another The Force Awakens panel (their third and presumably final one this year). Apparently the reason they didn't show a trailer at Comic-Con was because they were saving it for D23. If so, now the question is whether or not the public will see it the same day. Considering Disney immediately put up both the second trailer after Celebration and the behind-the-scenes featurette after Comic-Con, I'm assuming they'll follow suit here, but who knows. Because Disney will also be debuting a ton of footage for other movies that the public won't see, it's hard to say.

Either way, here's the schedule...

Friday, August 14 - 3:00 PM Pacific
Pixar and Walt Disney Animation Studios: The Upcoming Films, Hosted by John Lasseter
Footage debuting for: The Good Dinosaur, Finding Dory, Zootopia, and Moana

Saturday, August 15 - 10:30 AM Pacific
Worlds, Galaxies, and Universes: Live Action at The Walt Disney Studios
Footage debuting for: Alice Through the Looking Glass, The Jungle Book, Captain America: Civil War, and Star Wars: The Force Awakens + "much, much more"
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